Bailiff advice please.
Discussion
A friend of mine has recently in the last few weeks had a letter from the CSA wrongly demanding £37,390 and 61 p.
He is in talks with them over this figure which has been based on an emergency assessment(he has never been properly assessed)and has no doubt that they are shooting well wide of the mark,once a realistic honest figure has been reached then he will pay it although having said that the mother was paid off with a lump sum a few years back
This is not the main concern for him although at this time the CSA are going through a serious shake up,what he is concerned about is if during the shake up the CSA things get mixed up and they send out the Bailiffs ,what steps should he take and what rights should he be aware of ,concerning,
A/ the home,this is a fully furnished Rented property,does he need to make the landlord aware,are the Bailiffs allowed to gain entry and if so what steps can be taken to safeguard the landlords property as well as his own.
B/My freind has 3 vehicles ,one is a runaround and is of little value but in his name.
The other two are of value ,one is in his name the other is not,the one in his name is out of sight in a locked garage,the one on the drive is in full view but in a different owners name.
Obviously he hopes to settle this dispute ammicably but just in case lines get crossed fore warned is fore armed.
Thanks.
He is in talks with them over this figure which has been based on an emergency assessment(he has never been properly assessed)and has no doubt that they are shooting well wide of the mark,once a realistic honest figure has been reached then he will pay it although having said that the mother was paid off with a lump sum a few years back
This is not the main concern for him although at this time the CSA are going through a serious shake up,what he is concerned about is if during the shake up the CSA things get mixed up and they send out the Bailiffs ,what steps should he take and what rights should he be aware of ,concerning,
A/ the home,this is a fully furnished Rented property,does he need to make the landlord aware,are the Bailiffs allowed to gain entry and if so what steps can be taken to safeguard the landlords property as well as his own.
B/My freind has 3 vehicles ,one is a runaround and is of little value but in his name.
The other two are of value ,one is in his name the other is not,the one in his name is out of sight in a locked garage,the one on the drive is in full view but in a different owners name.
Obviously he hopes to settle this dispute ammicably but just in case lines get crossed fore warned is fore armed.
Thanks.
Plotloss said:
Bailiffs can only be sent once a CCJ has been issued I believe, they are officers of the court effectively.
So they cant just turn up on your doorstep one day,they have to go to a court first?,do they notify the recipient,sorry for my dumbness i havent got the faintest how this all works and the procedures,its all new to me.
A common question asks under what circumstances certificated bailiffs (officers of the County Court) or sheriffs (independent collectors) have the right to enter premises without the consent of the owner of the premises.
This area of law has suffered long neglect, and the law appears to have become rather murky, with different practices prevailing in different areas. A Court of Appeal case reported in the Times on the 25th of March 1998 (Khazanchi etc), raises several such issues and provides an up to date and more authoritative statement of the law.
In essence no party has the right to enter premises against the wishes of the occupier for the purpose of collection of debt. Once however the bailiff or sheriff has been allowed entry then he is entitled to stay and to return if he leaves goods uncollected.
The cases reported raises the question of whether having once entered and gone away, the officer was entitled to return and re-enter the premises against the wishes of the occupier by force. In each case entry had been made in the absence of the occupier and new locks had been left with new keys.
The Court decided that having once been allowed entry, they were entitled to return, and upon such return were entitled, and had the right to re-enter without consent. Where, however, there was no direct evidence of a deliberate attempt to exclude the officer, the officer had to seek permission again.
In these cases, the occupier had left the premises and gone about their normal business. There was nothing to indicate any intention to evade the officer, who appeared to have turned up without any appointment, and assumed the right to enter. The Court said that, in these circumstances, re-entry was wrong, but in each case pointed out that the actual damages suffered were negligible, and that the officers could be relied upon not to repeat the mistake. Injunctions were not therefore granted. The complainants in these cases therefore came away with nothing.
It remains to be seen however, now that the law has been clarified, whether future similar behaviour by bailiffs or sheriffs would be deemed oppressive in the light of this guidance and some sort of damages obtained for the implicit of use of their position.
This area of law has suffered long neglect, and the law appears to have become rather murky, with different practices prevailing in different areas. A Court of Appeal case reported in the Times on the 25th of March 1998 (Khazanchi etc), raises several such issues and provides an up to date and more authoritative statement of the law.
In essence no party has the right to enter premises against the wishes of the occupier for the purpose of collection of debt. Once however the bailiff or sheriff has been allowed entry then he is entitled to stay and to return if he leaves goods uncollected.
The cases reported raises the question of whether having once entered and gone away, the officer was entitled to return and re-enter the premises against the wishes of the occupier by force. In each case entry had been made in the absence of the occupier and new locks had been left with new keys.
The Court decided that having once been allowed entry, they were entitled to return, and upon such return were entitled, and had the right to re-enter without consent. Where, however, there was no direct evidence of a deliberate attempt to exclude the officer, the officer had to seek permission again.
In these cases, the occupier had left the premises and gone about their normal business. There was nothing to indicate any intention to evade the officer, who appeared to have turned up without any appointment, and assumed the right to enter. The Court said that, in these circumstances, re-entry was wrong, but in each case pointed out that the actual damages suffered were negligible, and that the officers could be relied upon not to repeat the mistake. Injunctions were not therefore granted. The complainants in these cases therefore came away with nothing.
It remains to be seen however, now that the law has been clarified, whether future similar behaviour by bailiffs or sheriffs would be deemed oppressive in the light of this guidance and some sort of damages obtained for the implicit of use of their position.
ZR1cliff said:
Bailiffs can only be sent once a CCJ has been issued I believe, they are officers of the court effectively.
So they cant just turn up on your doorstep one day,they have to go to a court first?,do they notify the recipient,sorry for my dumbness i havent got the faintest how this all works and the procedures,its all new to me.
Collection agents can come anytime but without any power. Bailiffs I believe have to be sent by the court.
Thing with Bailiffs is they have no power unless you let them in. Even if they want to come in for a chat they could be sat on his sofa 'listing' his goods. If goods are listed and a bailiff revisits he can then have the power to forceably remove.
Close the curtains so he can see nothing, park cars at a mates and dont let them in!
ZR1cliff said:
Thanks for the good advice,chaps.
One thing ime not sure of is if a vehicle that is parked outside your rented property is not in your name can they take it because it is on your rented property,therefore they assume its your property. if you see what i mean.
No.
They'll have probably already been to the DVLA to find out if there are any cars registered in the persons name and address.
Those are the ones to park at a mates house...
Plotloss said:
Thanks for the good advice,chaps.
One thing ime not sure of is if a vehicle that is parked outside your rented property is not in your name can they take it because it is on your rented property,therefore they assume its your property. if you see what i mean.
No.
They'll have probably already been to the DVLA to find out if there are any cars registered in the persons name and address.
Those are the ones to park at a mates house...
Cool ,thanks
mybrainhurts said:
They'll have probably already been to the DVLA to find out if there are any cars registered in the persons name and address.
iirc registered keeper didn't need to be the owner though.
Correct...could be owned by a finance outfit.
Absolutely - registered keeper does not prove ownership.
WWESTY said:
They'll have probably already been to the DVLA to find out if there are any cars registered in the persons name and address.
iirc registered keeper didn't need to be the owner though.
Correct...could be owned by a finance outfit.
Absolutely - registered keeper does not prove ownership.
But is it not generally where they start?
County Court Bailiffs will more often than not give up if faced with any kind of resistance and will simply return the warrant unsatisfied, as someone who has had cause to seek CCJ's on business debtors I know this only too well, a complete waste of space.
Private firms of Certificated Bailiffs however are more tenaciuos ( I know I was one!)it is worth noting that they do have powers of un-forced entry, this means that should you leave a window open or a patio door unlocked they are free to enter via this and then cannot be evicted.
They also start visiting at 0500 or some such hour as this is when they are likely to find someone in, they often take "walking possession" of any vehicles parked on the premises whether or not they are in the debtors name simply to get a reaction and start dialogue, they are not really interested in removing gear ( never fetches as much as it should) and would much prefer to arrange a series of payments including heavy added costs!
HTH
Nick
Private firms of Certificated Bailiffs however are more tenaciuos ( I know I was one!)it is worth noting that they do have powers of un-forced entry, this means that should you leave a window open or a patio door unlocked they are free to enter via this and then cannot be evicted.
They also start visiting at 0500 or some such hour as this is when they are likely to find someone in, they often take "walking possession" of any vehicles parked on the premises whether or not they are in the debtors name simply to get a reaction and start dialogue, they are not really interested in removing gear ( never fetches as much as it should) and would much prefer to arrange a series of payments including heavy added costs!
HTH
Nick
Aprisa said:
they often take "walking possession" of any vehicles parked on the premises whether or not they are in the debtors name simply to get a reaction and start dialogue
Surely this can't be right? For example, I have a number of cars stored at my parent's house. If baliffs turned up aiming to reposess somthing from my father then surely they cannot reposess my cars or property as payment?
Sorry, should explain "Walking Possession" means they list the item and agree in theory to allow that item to remain at the property to be seized at a leter date if agreed terms are broken, they do not need to get into a car just to note its reg. This is an easy way to get the said "reaction" and can take place in the abscence of any person on the debtors property.
Hence the advice earlier in the thread to close your curtains!
Nick
Hence the advice earlier in the thread to close your curtains!
Nick
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