Discussion
theboyfold said:
Looking at a spending abot £3.5k on a fun car and for some track use. Somebody on here pointed out that I could have a classic 944 for that sort of money.
So can I have some advice and pointers please? What to look for? Different variants etc etc etc
Cheers!
Should be able to get a fairly good one.
First thing is the cars had a facelift in 1984, after this they are referred to as 'oval dash' models which have a much much better interior.
The standard 2.5 944 has about 160bhp
then 1987? came the 944S a 16V version of this engine with around 175bhp
Also a 2.7 944 version at some point with 190bhp
The 944 S2 was the last of the line and had a 3.0 with 210 bhp
Turbos also exist but don't know a thing about them
For 3.5k I would be looking for a decent example of any except the S2 (I don't know of any problems with the 2.7 and 16V units but have only owned an oval dash 2.5) Don't think S2s are at this money just yet although may not be far off.
Major costs are belt service and clutch so ideally these will have been done already also check for evidence of a replaced water pump. If the belts have been done regularly then the engine is pretty reliable. Rust can occur on the lower sills in front of the wheel arches where sunroof drain channels are.
I really enjoyed owning one and will have another one day, perhaps later this year
Ben
benyeats said:
The standard 2.5 944 has about 160bhp
then 1987? came the 944S a 16V version of this engine with around 175bhp
Also a 2.7 944 version at some point with 190bhp
The 944 S2 was the last of the line and had a 3.0 with 210 bhp
Wrong way round with the power. The 2.5 16V S had about 190 bhp and the 2.7 was not much (5 bhp?) higher than the 2.5. The 16V S gets slated by lots of people as it doesn't have much low down torque and all the extra power only kicks in above about 4500 rpm, hence Porsche enlarging the engine to 3.0 litres after a year. It would make a good track day version as you would be using the revs more.
The 16V models have a potential weakness with the cam chain tensioner. It has a plastic pad (which costs pense to replace) which wears through, and if it fails it can cause pretty major damage to the head and valves to hit pistons etc. The chain itself stretches as well which can lead to teeth on the cam wheels wearing/breaking off. My old S needed new cams, chain & tensioner at 100k miles which cost about £2.5k. The chain & tensioner were never part of the official service schedule but regular checks should avoid problems.
Its not really the service costs that will cost you - budget about 350 for a 12k service, but it will always needs a few bits and that is where you spend the money with these cars. Others will have different experiences but my annual servcies costs on 944t and 968 were usually about 700-800.
But if you need to do the brakes,clutch or several other things that can be high hundreds thats when it can get a bit eye-watering. Don't let that put you off though - they are pretty depreciation proof at the price you are looking at
Its a great choice so long as abig service bill isn't going to cripple you
But if you need to do the brakes,clutch or several other things that can be high hundreds thats when it can get a bit eye-watering. Don't let that put you off though - they are pretty depreciation proof at the price you are looking at
Its a great choice so long as abig service bill isn't going to cripple you
OK, the clutch seems to be the point that most people are bringing up. And the timing belts as well (which i guess is going to be the case with any car of that age) Do you know any decent dealers around Berks or on the M40, M4 or M3? Or is the best bet to look through the papers and classifieds?
theboyfold said:www.northwayporsche.co.uk/
OK, the clutch seems to be the point that most people are bringing up. And the timing belts as well (which i guess is going to be the case with any car of that age) Do you know any decent dealers around Berks or on the M40, M4 or M3? Or is the best bet to look through the papers and classifieds?
Are you intending to do your own work on the car by the way?
>> Edited by dern on Thursday 16th February 12:40
theboyfold said:
Something tells me that the running costs for a 944 are going to be too high, what are the prices for a normal service? I'm assuming at that sort of age you need to get them seen to every or so months, especially if it is going to be on the track a few times a year.
If this is going to be purely a track day car then the servicing costs will be very infrequent surely. I ran 2 994S2s one after the other for 170k miles over 5 years. I changed brakes, oil, filters, etc the running costs were certainly mo more than say a big Ford or GM car. The other thought that occured to me is that these cars are now being written off for economic reasons and are readily available as insurance write offs. Why not buy one and fix the cosmetics?
nonegreen said:I'd be changing oil and so on more frequently if the car was a track car than if it was a road car personally. However, you can do this easily yourself.
If this is going to be purely a track day car then the servicing costs will be very infrequent surely. I ran 2 994S2s one after the other for 170k miles over 5 years. I changed brakes, oil, filters, etc the running costs were certainly mo more than say a big Ford or GM car. The other thought that occured to me is that these cars are now being written off for economic reasons and are readily available as insurance write offs. Why not buy one and fix the cosmetics?
Fixing cosmetic stuff on a porsche is never cheap. Leaving cosmetics thing alone because you don't care (and sod's law says you'll damage the bit just fixed on your first outing) is cheap
I bought my S2 for about that sort of money....
You will be lucky to find a 'minter' for that kind of money but if you are looking to turn it into a track sl4g then does it really matter?
Servicing isnt too pricey at all. Mine goes in twice a year because it is proper tracksl4g and I only drive it like I stole it!!
You will be lucky to find a 'minter' for that kind of money but if you are looking to turn it into a track sl4g then does it really matter?
Servicing isnt too pricey at all. Mine goes in twice a year because it is proper tracksl4g and I only drive it like I stole it!!
I used to pay a couple of hundred notes for a basic service. This was at my local OPC who had a 40% discount on labour for cars over 10 years old. Could have done it cheaper by shopping around especially if I lived in London where their seems to be a number of specialists, but the OPC collected the car from work cleaned it and delivered it back meaning the £30 or so extra was covered by the convenience
Parts do not have to be expensive as their are a lot of specialists around, also some specialist breakers for other bits.
Ben
Parts do not have to be expensive as their are a lot of specialists around, also some specialist breakers for other bits.
Ben
theboyfold said:On a 2.5 8v pre-oval dash car like mine the servicing I did myself was dead easy. The only thing I'd recommend getting northway to do would be complex problem diagnostics to save you breaking anything and cambelt/tensioner changes. The cambelt is long and the tension needs to be correct and then retest a few miles later. I did my own with a tension guage but while some people do the 1/4 turn of the belt method I wouldn't do it on a 944 because I could pop down the scrappers and get a new engine for 50 quid which is what I could do for my golf for example.
Are you intending to do your own work on the car by the way?
Willing to learn, which is another consideration for the type of car I end up with.
You can pick up a haynes manual for the early cars but they were aimed at the US market but you can also pick up the workshop manual on CD from ebay.
From your other thread it looks like you're considering a small hot hatch as an alternative and the only thing I'd say is that servicing and mending an early 944 is no more difficult than a mk2 golf and access is about the same (better than a 205) and the amount of stuff I've had to fix on my 944 was comparable over time as I have had to fix on my golf. If I could afford to I'd run a 944 in preference to a mk2 golf but because I have the westy to play with I'm running a golf because it's cheaper. If you drive both and don't feel the extra is worth paying for then just get a golf, take it on track and see how you feel then. If you don't get a dog of a golf or smash it to pieces you'll get most of your money back and then you can think again if you then want a 944. If you drive both and want a 944 now go for it but get the car inspected at northway (they'll charge you an hours labour) and go in with your eyes open (tyres cost more, parts cost more vs fwd/rwd and different feel). Ask Iguana which he'd prefer and give him an idea of your budget because he's very familiar with both golfs and 944s and run a track slag golf which is very quick and despite being fwd could not possible fail to make you smile when on track.
Regards,
Mark
Dern, thanks for all the advice, what it boils down to it this. I'd love a car that I can take to the track, have a laugh without needing to be the quickest person there, but have a really involving drive and a car dynamic enough to understand what I am doing right and wrong.
I loved the 182 round the track and have no major leanings either way over FWD or RWD (although I'm guessing RWD would be more fun!)
I'd also like the car to be half decent on the road when I take it out for a hoon at the weekends, this is what attracted me to the 944, it would be a nicer car to cruise about in then a track sl*g of a hot hatch. If I was to buy a decent standard hatch, I'd leave it standard and just have seperate wheels for the road and track.
Ideally I'd like the running costs to be as low as possible, but I'm assuming that with any fairly old car I'm going to have to shell out every now and again for parts.
I'll ring around and speak to a few specialists before I buy anything, I think I really need to drive a 944 to see if I like it from a start and then sit down and do some maths.
I loved the 182 round the track and have no major leanings either way over FWD or RWD (although I'm guessing RWD would be more fun!)
I'd also like the car to be half decent on the road when I take it out for a hoon at the weekends, this is what attracted me to the 944, it would be a nicer car to cruise about in then a track sl*g of a hot hatch. If I was to buy a decent standard hatch, I'd leave it standard and just have seperate wheels for the road and track.
Ideally I'd like the running costs to be as low as possible, but I'm assuming that with any fairly old car I'm going to have to shell out every now and again for parts.
I'll ring around and speak to a few specialists before I buy anything, I think I really need to drive a 944 to see if I like it from a start and then sit down and do some maths.
theboyfold said:You've got the advantage on me because I've yet to do a track day (soon though hopefully) apart from a formula ford thing. You also have to bear in mind I lean firmly towards the rwd and am frequently verging on disparaging to fwd hot hatches despite owning one so driving the cars is a good idea to see if they fit in with what you want. See if you drive a few of each though as at the age all these things are they'll all feel very different to each other.
Dern, thanks for all the advice, what it boils down to it this. I'd love a car that I can take to the track, have a laugh without needing to be the quickest person there, but have a really involving drive and a car dynamic enough to understand what I am doing right and wrong.
I loved the 182 round the track and have no major leanings either way over FWD or RWD (although I'm guessing RWD would be more fun!)
I'd also like the car to be half decent on the road when I take it out for a hoon at the weekends, this is what attracted me to the 944, it would be a nicer car to cruise about in then a track sl*g of a hot hatch. If I was to buy a decent standard hatch, I'd leave it standard and just have seperate wheels for the road and track.
Ideally I'd like the running costs to be as low as possible, but I'm assuming that with any fairly old car I'm going to have to shell out every now and again for parts.
I'll ring around and speak to a few specialists before I buy anything, I think I really need to drive a 944 to see if I like it from a start and then sit down and do some maths.
The thing I liked about the 944 is that it feels solid as you drive it but you can feel all of the road and it has that great seperation of drive from steering that I love (mine has PAS by the way). I also loved the driving position, the size and position of the wheel, the firm and precise nature of the gearchange (unless the cables are
ed) and thought the old porthole dash was lovely (despite being brown). However, if you like an excitable puppy of a hot hatch then it's not the same thing. Edited to add: you're in Berkshire... where abouts?
Good luck,
Mark
>> Edited by dern on Thursday 16th February 15:14
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