Discussion
Just to add another thing in the way of me being a good subject and trying to earn a crust for my family I've had a chap from the tax office on the phone today - doing overtime apparently, thats nice for him...
Some years ago, almost 3 to be precise I get a bill for failure to submit self assesment forms for 2001 - the year I returned from the States, the first I'd heard that I was self assesment.
Called them told to send them in, which I duly did, like a good subject.
We've not got them, yes you have, no we havent etc.
Ended up by last year going to the tax office to fill them out in the tax office. At the time advised this was the best way and all charges etc would be dropped as there was obviously an administrative error.
They then did the calculation and it transpires that although my employer at the time fully informed them of my private healthcare, they didnt adjust my tax code properly and the cash wasnt taken via PAYE in the normal way.
Now I fully appreciate that there is a burden of taxation thats unfulfilled and I have advised the tax office that I will pay this amount in full as soon as I am able to. I queried with the lady I spoke to at the time (last year) about all the other charges and interests that had arisen through no fault of mine re lost forms etc. She advised me that these would be removed if I wrote in which I did, I went through income/expenditure with her to get a 'time to pay' of the back tax. This was before christmas and I've not heard anything by letter or phone since so assumed all was in order and everyone was happy.
Today this chap calls and his opening line was can you confirm you address (as they had an address which I have NEVER lived at in Brighton) as we need to send someone to repossess your assests to pay your outstanding tax bill (£20K+ in cars for a £500 bill apparently). I made him fully aware of the process and the background and his rather brusque attitude was bollox, we want the money, theres nothing about income/expenditure in front of me so we're coming to get the assests. I asked what I could do by way of continued appeal as the bills and charges that arose etc were outside my control and he said I could appeal but it probably wont do anything.
So, what do I do?
I'm absolutely beside myself with worry over this as as far as I can see although many people from the IR have told me its entirely the IR's fault and it will be resolved by them that no one (according to him) has annotated this on their computer system. I went through the assesment process to prove that I couldnt just conjure up the cash and I'm not avoiding or evading tax in any way. His attitude remained brusque and unhelpful and on numerous occasions accused me of lying about the situation.
I really really dont know what to do, its been a tough 9 months or so and I'm desperately trying to get myself back on my feet and I really really really dont need the added stress that this is causing me.
Any advice that anyone has would really be very very gratefully recieved, there just seems to be no recourse to anything if people dont update their computers with what they have told me verbally.
HELP!
(and you know what the really galling thing is, for 2005/2006 they owe me well over £3K in overpaid tax)
Sorry, bit long that...
Some years ago, almost 3 to be precise I get a bill for failure to submit self assesment forms for 2001 - the year I returned from the States, the first I'd heard that I was self assesment.
Called them told to send them in, which I duly did, like a good subject.
We've not got them, yes you have, no we havent etc.
Ended up by last year going to the tax office to fill them out in the tax office. At the time advised this was the best way and all charges etc would be dropped as there was obviously an administrative error.
They then did the calculation and it transpires that although my employer at the time fully informed them of my private healthcare, they didnt adjust my tax code properly and the cash wasnt taken via PAYE in the normal way.
Now I fully appreciate that there is a burden of taxation thats unfulfilled and I have advised the tax office that I will pay this amount in full as soon as I am able to. I queried with the lady I spoke to at the time (last year) about all the other charges and interests that had arisen through no fault of mine re lost forms etc. She advised me that these would be removed if I wrote in which I did, I went through income/expenditure with her to get a 'time to pay' of the back tax. This was before christmas and I've not heard anything by letter or phone since so assumed all was in order and everyone was happy.
Today this chap calls and his opening line was can you confirm you address (as they had an address which I have NEVER lived at in Brighton) as we need to send someone to repossess your assests to pay your outstanding tax bill (£20K+ in cars for a £500 bill apparently). I made him fully aware of the process and the background and his rather brusque attitude was bollox, we want the money, theres nothing about income/expenditure in front of me so we're coming to get the assests. I asked what I could do by way of continued appeal as the bills and charges that arose etc were outside my control and he said I could appeal but it probably wont do anything.
So, what do I do?
I'm absolutely beside myself with worry over this as as far as I can see although many people from the IR have told me its entirely the IR's fault and it will be resolved by them that no one (according to him) has annotated this on their computer system. I went through the assesment process to prove that I couldnt just conjure up the cash and I'm not avoiding or evading tax in any way. His attitude remained brusque and unhelpful and on numerous occasions accused me of lying about the situation.
I really really dont know what to do, its been a tough 9 months or so and I'm desperately trying to get myself back on my feet and I really really really dont need the added stress that this is causing me.
Any advice that anyone has would really be very very gratefully recieved, there just seems to be no recourse to anything if people dont update their computers with what they have told me verbally.
HELP!
(and you know what the really galling thing is, for 2005/2006 they owe me well over £3K in overpaid tax)
Sorry, bit long that...
I dont want a fight, I really dont, I just want to pay what I owe (and if needs be I'll get into debt with someone else to pay them) but it appears that they are chasing me for charges levied due to their mistakes and I cant see that that is any way fair. I fully complied with everything they asked and it was verbally confirmed to me on numerous occasions that the charges and interest would be dropped as these were levied in error but none of that seems to have been recorded.
Speak to the local Tax commissioner! That normally helps! Find out your local head-office number and get in touch with the Commissioner!
Arrange a meeting! If you cant, then get in touch with your local MP and ask for assistance because your local commissioner is not interested in helping you through this.
You dont have to go legal, but if you show your sincerity by going up the food-chain, then they will treat you with the same respect that any honest person deserves.
Some of these tax-officers can be seriously hard to communicate with, but I have always found that by talking to other officers, situations become a lot less stressful and things get done better for both parties.
The last thing IR want is a long-hauled out case, they prefer things to be settled quickly, and if you are financially not capable of paying what is genuinly owed - then they are obliged to help! Although now that Customs and Excise have merged with Inland Revenue to a standpoint view, they are becoming a lot more direct about outstanding payments.
Dont worry bud! we've all been there, just take it easy and go with the flow, but get in touch with your commissioner ASAP! The longer you leave it, the worse things can become if IR begin the process of serious action....
If you need some help, drop me a mail, I can put you in touch with my local commissioner, but see if you can get hold of your local first!
Arrange a meeting! If you cant, then get in touch with your local MP and ask for assistance because your local commissioner is not interested in helping you through this.
You dont have to go legal, but if you show your sincerity by going up the food-chain, then they will treat you with the same respect that any honest person deserves.
Some of these tax-officers can be seriously hard to communicate with, but I have always found that by talking to other officers, situations become a lot less stressful and things get done better for both parties.
The last thing IR want is a long-hauled out case, they prefer things to be settled quickly, and if you are financially not capable of paying what is genuinly owed - then they are obliged to help! Although now that Customs and Excise have merged with Inland Revenue to a standpoint view, they are becoming a lot more direct about outstanding payments.
Dont worry bud! we've all been there, just take it easy and go with the flow, but get in touch with your commissioner ASAP! The longer you leave it, the worse things can become if IR begin the process of serious action....
If you need some help, drop me a mail, I can put you in touch with my local commissioner, but see if you can get hold of your local first!
Plotloss, has there been a court judgement against you? If not then surely they can't take goods to the value. Quite willing to be corrected if the Revenue have powers far and above their competency.
Just read that again and it's a given that they do have powers far above their competency but you know what I meant.
>> Edited by Flat in Fifth on Saturday 18th February 15:51
Just read that again and it's a given that they do have powers far above their competency but you know what I meant.
>> Edited by Flat in Fifth on Saturday 18th February 15:51
From what this chap told me today the IR decide between themselves whether the appeal is valid. If its not (and he was 'convinced' that it wouldnt be) then they can remove, forceably if need be, the assets which will be auctioned and the balance forwarded to me. I dont want that to happen as the value of the cars is way above the debt and one of them is already sold, being collected next week.
There is no court hearing as you would expect in any other case, its all in house IR, I am allowed no representation other than the appeal letter - I dont know if this is correct but it is what he said.
Ash - Thanks for that, I'm going to resend the original appeal letter along with a request for info via the DPA but I will also go into my local tax office and speak to them to see what they have to say.
There is no court hearing as you would expect in any other case, its all in house IR, I am allowed no representation other than the appeal letter - I dont know if this is correct but it is what he said.
Ash - Thanks for that, I'm going to resend the original appeal letter along with a request for info via the DPA but I will also go into my local tax office and speak to them to see what they have to say.
Some stuff which may be of help to you:
Ring your local tax office and ask to speak the the head of the Debt Management & Banking Recovery Office they may not put you through to him/her but at least get their name. If you do not ge through try agian but this time use their name.
when you get through explain that you want a face to face meeting to dicuss the problems you have been experiencing with his/her department and that you would like to resolve the matter and you feel the quickest way to do this is a face to face meeting.
Before you go to the meeting make sure you have all relevent documents with you. All your tax returns bank statements etc. If you do not have a copy of your return request one along with all relevant documents they have sent to the wrong address. They may not like this request but they should fulfill it and they should have copies of all the letters. Also request in writing confirmation that they were sending letters to the wrong address. If they are hesitant tell them you need this because you are making a complaint Department Of Constitutional Affairs. Make notes about what happend prevoiusly and make sure what you are telling them is consistent.
If they dont back down you will need to make a complaint via the DCA.
Ring your local tax office and ask to speak the the head of the Debt Management & Banking Recovery Office they may not put you through to him/her but at least get their name. If you do not ge through try agian but this time use their name.
when you get through explain that you want a face to face meeting to dicuss the problems you have been experiencing with his/her department and that you would like to resolve the matter and you feel the quickest way to do this is a face to face meeting.
Before you go to the meeting make sure you have all relevent documents with you. All your tax returns bank statements etc. If you do not have a copy of your return request one along with all relevant documents they have sent to the wrong address. They may not like this request but they should fulfill it and they should have copies of all the letters. Also request in writing confirmation that they were sending letters to the wrong address. If they are hesitant tell them you need this because you are making a complaint Department Of Constitutional Affairs. Make notes about what happend prevoiusly and make sure what you are telling them is consistent.
If they dont back down you will need to make a complaint via the DCA.
Are the IR fundamentally different to any other type of creditor?
Maybe they *are* given special powers to seize goods, but for other creditors it seems to be much harder to seize goods than the debt collectors would have you believe. Somebody posted this link which has some very good advice for people who are being threatened by bailifs. I think you should start with a call to your local Citizens Advice Bureau to see what the legal situation is, then find the fastest way possible to get the money you owe into the hands of the IR. You can argue the toss about the additional costs later. How do they know what assets you have? Based on the advice on the site I referred to above, it would be worth ensuring that you don't have any cars at your home and that you don't allow any stranger to enter into your house at all for any reason whatsover until this is resolved.
Maybe they *are* given special powers to seize goods, but for other creditors it seems to be much harder to seize goods than the debt collectors would have you believe. Somebody posted this link which has some very good advice for people who are being threatened by bailifs. I think you should start with a call to your local Citizens Advice Bureau to see what the legal situation is, then find the fastest way possible to get the money you owe into the hands of the IR. You can argue the toss about the additional costs later. How do they know what assets you have? Based on the advice on the site I referred to above, it would be worth ensuring that you don't have any cars at your home and that you don't allow any stranger to enter into your house at all for any reason whatsover until this is resolved.
Thanks PP very helpful that.
This is what I dont really understand, my local tax office is just down the road about a mile away and I've lived in Windsor for 3 years, London before that.
So far I've had people call me from Northumberland, Kent and East Sussex. I've never lived or worked in any of those counties. In fact its only recently I've ever been to Kent and I get a nosebleed when I go North of Oxford.
What I really want to do, just to shut them up is go and pay the back tax I agree I owe on my credit card, not ideal but I cant have this hanging over me anymore and then fight to the death over these bloody charges.
Would that be a way forward?
This is what I dont really understand, my local tax office is just down the road about a mile away and I've lived in Windsor for 3 years, London before that.
So far I've had people call me from Northumberland, Kent and East Sussex. I've never lived or worked in any of those counties. In fact its only recently I've ever been to Kent and I get a nosebleed when I go North of Oxford.
What I really want to do, just to shut them up is go and pay the back tax I agree I owe on my credit card, not ideal but I cant have this hanging over me anymore and then fight to the death over these bloody charges.
Would that be a way forward?
GreenV8S said:
Are the IR fundamentally different to any other type of creditor?
Maybe they *are* given special powers to seize goods, but for other creditors it seems to be much harder to seize goods than the debt collectors would have you believe. Somebody posted this link which has some very good advice for people who are being threatened by bailifs. I think you should start with a call to your local Citizens Advice Bureau to see what the legal situation is, then find the fastest way possible to get the money you owe into the hands of the IR. You can argue the toss about the additional costs later. How do they know what assets you have? Based on the advice on the site I referred to above, it would be worth ensuring that you don't have any cars at your home and that you don't allow any stranger to enter into your house at all for any reason whatsover until this is resolved.
A tax man visited and stuck a threat of removal through my letterbox (completely unannouced after a good 6 months of no correspondence), I was out but he must have seen my car on the drive and listed the reg.
I'll have a read of that link now, thanks Peter
Plotloss said:
This is what I dont really understand, my local tax office is just down the road about a mile away and I've lived in Windsor for 3 years, London before that.
So far I've had people call me from Northumberland, Kent and East Sussex. I've never lived or worked in any of those counties. In fact its only recently I've ever been to Kent and I get a nosebleed when I go North of Oxford.
Cant help with your problem im afraid, but the tax office you deal with is normally where your employers head office (ex in your case), is located..
Plotloss said:
Thanks PP very helpful that.
This is what I dont really understand, my local tax office is just down the road about a mile away and I've lived in Windsor for 3 years, London before that.
So far I've had people call me from Northumberland, Kent and East Sussex. I've never lived or worked in any of those counties. In fact its only recently I've ever been to Kent and I get a nosebleed when I go North of Oxford.
What I really want to do, just to shut them up is go and pay the back tax I agree I owe on my credit card, not ideal but I cant have this hanging over me anymore and then fight to the death over these bloody charges.
Would that be a way forward?
If you can withdraw cash on your credit card then yes. From memory I dont think you can pay fines by credit card or for that matter Self Assesments. It has to be via debit card, cheque or cash. You can certainly appeal your fines after the fact. I would pay them with a letter in writing explaining that you dispute the fines. You could go further and actually write paid under duress on the cheque (Their is specific legal language you use for this which I can find out for you).
They make this really easy dont they?
Unfortunately not an option then.
I just cant believe they can come and take goods away that are worth significantly in excess of the debt when, in 12 months time they will be paying me money in overpaid tax.
I came back to this country twice because I missed it when I left but now I'm absolutely resolute. At the first possible opportunity I'm
off and never coming back to this stinking marxist run chav infested shithole. C*nts.
>> Edited by Plotloss on Saturday 18th February 17:07
Unfortunately not an option then.
I just cant believe they can come and take goods away that are worth significantly in excess of the debt when, in 12 months time they will be paying me money in overpaid tax.
I came back to this country twice because I missed it when I left but now I'm absolutely resolute. At the first possible opportunity I'm
off and never coming back to this stinking marxist run chav infested shithole. C*nts. >> Edited by Plotloss on Saturday 18th February 17:07
Dont let them intimidate you mate,the CSA are on to me big time at the moment for nearly 40K and are trying the same intimidating avenues...you know it really riles me that this Govt is preaching PC for everything and yet they allow Govt Depts to drop worrying,intimidating wrongly assessed letters through peoples doors ,,not only this they allow banks etc to do the same....dont let them do it "Push back".
Just a little tip for all its worth ,they tell you they tape the calls for their own purposes...well tell them that you are taping the cal aswell and if there is any breach of human rights in their communication with you then you will go legal.
I did this on my third call with the CSA and it was surprising how all of a sudden their attitude changed.
They prey on the normal persons ingnorance to their laws and regulations and use it to their advantage,so when i called back the third time i asked them questions which they tried to "waffle on" which left me unclear,so i stopped them and asked a clear YES or NO, the answer was sometimes opposite to what they inferred in their quest to indimidate me by trying to suggest they had more power than they really had.
Sorry i cant give you any tax advice.
Just a little tip for all its worth ,they tell you they tape the calls for their own purposes...well tell them that you are taping the cal aswell and if there is any breach of human rights in their communication with you then you will go legal.
I did this on my third call with the CSA and it was surprising how all of a sudden their attitude changed.
They prey on the normal persons ingnorance to their laws and regulations and use it to their advantage,so when i called back the third time i asked them questions which they tried to "waffle on" which left me unclear,so i stopped them and asked a clear YES or NO, the answer was sometimes opposite to what they inferred in their quest to indimidate me by trying to suggest they had more power than they really had.
Sorry i cant give you any tax advice.
plasticpig said:
Thanks PP very helpful that.
This is what I dont really understand, my local tax office is just down the road about a mile away and I've lived in Windsor for 3 years, London before that.
So far I've had people call me from Northumberland, Kent and East Sussex. I've never lived or worked in any of those counties. In fact its only recently I've ever been to Kent and I get a nosebleed when I go North of Oxford.
What I really want to do, just to shut them up is go and pay the back tax I agree I owe on my credit card, not ideal but I cant have this hanging over me anymore and then fight to the death over these bloody charges.
Would that be a way forward?
If you can withdraw cash on your credit card then yes. From memory I dont think you can pay fines by credit card or for that matter Self Assesments. It has to be via debit card, cheque or cash. You can certainly appeal your fines after the fact. I would pay them with a letter in writing explaining that you dispute the fines. You could go further and actually write paid under duress on the cheque (Their is specific legal language you use for this which I can find out for you).
Not so - I screwed my self assessment up last year and ended up paying using a credit card cheque (the credit card companies are so fond of sending these cheques through these days).
Trick is to pay at a post office, you make the cheque payable to Post Office Ltd and they will take the credit card cheque with no complaints.
Bloody handy for me at the time as I was out of contract and owed the taxman a payment on account I couldn't afford
Yeah I will get onto them, Monday in fact.
The lady I spoke to who assured me it was all resolved was really really nice and helpful. I'm starting to wonder that if I've got someone elses address on my record, whether they've got my arrangements etc on their record.
I just want to pay what I owe and look to the future but no, they want that and a couple of pounds of flesh to cover their own incompetence it seems.
The lady I spoke to who assured me it was all resolved was really really nice and helpful. I'm starting to wonder that if I've got someone elses address on my record, whether they've got my arrangements etc on their record.
I just want to pay what I owe and look to the future but no, they want that and a couple of pounds of flesh to cover their own incompetence it seems.
Plotloss said:
I'm starting to wonder that if I've got someone elses address on my record, whether they've got my arrangements etc on their record.
Sometimes you get different tax codes depending on what you are doing,and in what area you are trading in,up to 2002 i had 3 different tax codes open and they came to me for a period of time that was unnacountable on one of the tax codes for 1999.
I got the impression it wasnt so much the money they were after but they wanted a tax return for that time filled in and completed so they could close that file on that code.
check you tax codes.
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