Harnesses with Touring Pack
Discussion
just fit a harness bar and harnesses 
...probably cost you about £400
Have a look on www.hangar111.com or www.eliseparts.com or go down your local specialist
...probably cost you about £400 Have a look on www.hangar111.com or www.eliseparts.com or go down your local specialist
There are two types of harnes bar;
a) The super expensive scandanavian one for £300ish that bolts into the intertia reel top mounts; takes 30 mins to nail in but too high to mount a camera.
b) The regular eliseparts/hangar111 £125 job that takes a days swearing at and cutting up the rear plastic bulkhead to fit.
If you have standard seats without the harness holes you mut go for the BOLT in bar and harness (not wraparound) and you cant really use crotch straps (5/6 point).
For harnesses you want bolt in as there is not enough space on the "transmission tunnel" side of the seats for eye bolts to clip into. For mounting there is a debate to be had on the lapstraps - attach to seat or use spreaders; this is a real safety issue and you need to do your own dillignece on this. Most folks keep the intertia belt for road use and attach the lapstraps to the seat.
Then you select your harness belt width 50/75mm and quick release shoulder straps to lean forward at junctions or standard just for on track. The basic harness is the Luke National from eliseparts (non quick release shoulders) the gold standard is the Willans Silverstone from eliseshop and the rest are in between. DO NOT consider the clubman ones with seatbelt buckles as they are sh1t.
HTH HB
a) The super expensive scandanavian one for £300ish that bolts into the intertia reel top mounts; takes 30 mins to nail in but too high to mount a camera.
b) The regular eliseparts/hangar111 £125 job that takes a days swearing at and cutting up the rear plastic bulkhead to fit.
If you have standard seats without the harness holes you mut go for the BOLT in bar and harness (not wraparound) and you cant really use crotch straps (5/6 point).
For harnesses you want bolt in as there is not enough space on the "transmission tunnel" side of the seats for eye bolts to clip into. For mounting there is a debate to be had on the lapstraps - attach to seat or use spreaders; this is a real safety issue and you need to do your own dillignece on this. Most folks keep the intertia belt for road use and attach the lapstraps to the seat.
Then you select your harness belt width 50/75mm and quick release shoulder straps to lean forward at junctions or standard just for on track. The basic harness is the Luke National from eliseparts (non quick release shoulders) the gold standard is the Willans Silverstone from eliseshop and the rest are in between. DO NOT consider the clubman ones with seatbelt buckles as they are sh1t.
HTH HB
"DO NOT consider the clubman ones with seatbelt buckles as they are sh1t"
why are they sh1t? ...technically they have been designed to be 100% road legal and a replacement for the inertias and of course meet the same standards for road going seatbelts......one downside is that they only have 2" webbing and most people find that 3" are easier to place over the hips properly etc...but the clubman ones still hold you in your seat fine and are made from the same material...and the main advantage is that they are more convenient to use daily all the time and all have QR straps.
You can get a pair of quality 2" clubmans for £90 ...or spend £250 on some fancy race approved jobbies....just make sure you get QR buckles on the shoulders...for road use and the occasional trackday etc clubmans are fine IMO
why are they sh1t? ...technically they have been designed to be 100% road legal and a replacement for the inertias and of course meet the same standards for road going seatbelts......one downside is that they only have 2" webbing and most people find that 3" are easier to place over the hips properly etc...but the clubman ones still hold you in your seat fine and are made from the same material...and the main advantage is that they are more convenient to use daily all the time and all have QR straps.
You can get a pair of quality 2" clubmans for £90 ...or spend £250 on some fancy race approved jobbies....just make sure you get QR buckles on the shoulders...for road use and the occasional trackday etc clubmans are fine IMO
Lotus will tell you its dangerous as you can slip out of the shoulder straps. With the right harness bar and appropriate length straps there is no way I'm slipping out of my straps, even if the seat detaches.
Lotus will also tell you that you should not mount both lapstraps and interia belts on longer bolts as it moves shear foreces further from the attachment point in the seat which sounds reasonable, although I managed to mount my combonation using original length bolts and still engage the same numebr of threads. Alternative is to mount nuts on spreader plates under the floor and apparently there is only one correct place to locate these which involves debonding bits of box section.
Suggest you do some "harness mount" searches on here, SELOC and elisetalk then tooled up with knowledge based on toehrs opinions and experience talk to Lotus, your dealer and race prep specialist to make your own mind up.
Lotus will also tell you that you should not mount both lapstraps and interia belts on longer bolts as it moves shear foreces further from the attachment point in the seat which sounds reasonable, although I managed to mount my combonation using original length bolts and still engage the same numebr of threads. Alternative is to mount nuts on spreader plates under the floor and apparently there is only one correct place to locate these which involves debonding bits of box section.
Suggest you do some "harness mount" searches on here, SELOC and elisetalk then tooled up with knowledge based on toehrs opinions and experience talk to Lotus, your dealer and race prep specialist to make your own mind up.
shangani said:
Actually the clubman harnesses I had were the best at holding me in the seat. They were a bit of a nightmare to put on though (I have dodgy shoulders).
Shame on you, seriously. Lets talk off line.
Edit to say and Bogie, if they really are OK why does everyone that fits them seem to end up replacing them toot suite with "proper" 4 point harnesses ? Do the job right first time (money saving tip: marry your second wife first).
>> Edited by hbaumhardt on Saturday 25th February 17:01
I've just ordered a bar and 2x Willans Silverstone's from Elise-shop.com. Cost about £500 all in as the Willans are expensive, however after numerous posts and questions on SELOC it seems that the Willans are easier to live with on a day to day basis. They have quick release catches on the shoulders which makes it easy to lean forward when touching the radio or peering forward out of junctions. The other ones I looked at were the Schroth and TRS belts. Couldn't get the Schroth for weeks and the TRS ones weren't that much cheaper than the Willans.
Will have the joys of putting back the passenger seat next weekend.
Phil
Will have the joys of putting back the passenger seat next weekend.
Phil
junks said:
You just don't know when to stop spending Phil!!
LOL Phil.
I've still spent less compared to the 911... have been trawling e-bay for tools and tool chests this afternoon, that's my next target. Then there's always a Sagaris if JP Morgan decide to spend some more money on IT.
Jon - for that outburst you can come over next weekend and help me, have you bought that mountain bike yet?
Phil
hbaumhardt said:
DO NOT consider the clubman ones with seatbelt buckles as they are sh1t.
Rubbish. What do you base that statement on? I have this setup in my car
with the "sh1t" seatbelt buckles and they hold me in just fine. Admittedly they don't make me feel as much like Micheal Schumacher when doing them up as yours probably do but they do the job very well
I base my statement on having clubman harness fitted to my Chimaera and driven with/in others cars having them (Elise, Caterham, Nobles) and then driving in the same or similar cars with full harnesses.
For general use there is a bit of difference, but on the limit when the tyres are scrubbing and the car is starting to become unstable, the "locked in" feedback through full 3" harness is much better.
Unusually for an internet forum my opinion is based on actual experience, and I respect that others have different opinions. Unfortunatley there is a lot of advice based on refactored opinion which is why folks need to do their own dilligence to make the best choices.
For general use there is a bit of difference, but on the limit when the tyres are scrubbing and the car is starting to become unstable, the "locked in" feedback through full 3" harness is much better.
Unusually for an internet forum my opinion is based on actual experience, and I respect that others have different opinions. Unfortunatley there is a lot of advice based on refactored opinion which is why folks need to do their own dilligence to make the best choices.
hbaumhardt said:
I base my statement on having clubman harness fitted to my Chimaera and driven with/in others cars having them (Elise, Caterham, Nobles) and then driving in the same or similar cars with full harnesses.
For general use there is a bit of difference, but on the limit when the tyres are scrubbing and the car is starting to become unstable, the "locked in" feedback through full 3" harness is much better.
Unusually for an internet forum my opinion is based on actual experience, and I respect that others have different opinions. Unfortunatley there is a lot of advice based on refactored opinion which is why folks need to do their own dilligence to make the best choices.
What would you describe as a full harness? Five or six points make very little difference and for a track day car are simply not worth it - they are also impractical for the road.
I find the 2" ones hold me in fine both on track days and sprints regardless of the attitude of the car , perhaps I'm designed better for them
Last paragraph - couldn't agree more
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