Morals and business.
Discussion
There are quite a few people on here who run their own businesses either full time or on the side. I'd be interested in your opinions:
A while ago I was given the opportunity to join a lottery syndicate as an affiliate. Anyone with more than 2 braincells can see that this syndicate is very poor value for money, with most of the money going in "fees and admin" and only a very small amount actually being spent on tickets. If you look at the Web site they very much skirt over the details of how their odds are calculated and how much money goes where. I duly declined the offer.
Then over the weekend I got a catalogue for a well known cleaning products company through my door. I flicked though the catalogue whilst carrying it towards to bin and to my surprise the catalogue contained an identical bin to the one I have in my kitchen. Imagine my increased level of surprise when I saw the price - £15 from aforementioned cleaning products company, whereas I paid just £5 from my local Matalan.
Both these schemes seem to target people who are, shall we say, slightly less fortunate than most. The lottery scheme plays on people who have a "weak" grasp of maths, whereas the cleaning company seems to pray on the old, infirm and less well off, the kind of people who might not have the means to be able to go out and shop around, people who might be more reliant on home delivery.
Where do you draw the line between making profits and morals? I think both the above "businesses" are morally questionable to say the least, however, plenty of people seem prepared to profit from them.
A while ago I was given the opportunity to join a lottery syndicate as an affiliate. Anyone with more than 2 braincells can see that this syndicate is very poor value for money, with most of the money going in "fees and admin" and only a very small amount actually being spent on tickets. If you look at the Web site they very much skirt over the details of how their odds are calculated and how much money goes where. I duly declined the offer.
Then over the weekend I got a catalogue for a well known cleaning products company through my door. I flicked though the catalogue whilst carrying it towards to bin and to my surprise the catalogue contained an identical bin to the one I have in my kitchen. Imagine my increased level of surprise when I saw the price - £15 from aforementioned cleaning products company, whereas I paid just £5 from my local Matalan.
Both these schemes seem to target people who are, shall we say, slightly less fortunate than most. The lottery scheme plays on people who have a "weak" grasp of maths, whereas the cleaning company seems to pray on the old, infirm and less well off, the kind of people who might not have the means to be able to go out and shop around, people who might be more reliant on home delivery.
Where do you draw the line between making profits and morals? I think both the above "businesses" are morally questionable to say the least, however, plenty of people seem prepared to profit from them.
Caveat Emptor?
Obviously, we do need to have consumer legislation to protect customers from rogue behaviour but "overpricing" is not actually illegal. In fact, I don't even think it's immoral - as long as the customers do exercise their brain cells and checks out similar products and services so that they can compare prices.
Obviously, we do need to have consumer legislation to protect customers from rogue behaviour but "overpricing" is not actually illegal. In fact, I don't even think it's immoral - as long as the customers do exercise their brain cells and checks out similar products and services so that they can compare prices.
slapmatt said:
Imagine my increased level of surprise when I saw the price - £15 from aforementioned cleaning products company, whereas I paid just £5 from my local Matalan.
However, you don't know if Matalan are making more profit on the bin than the cleaning products company - Matalan might be able to afford to buy in bulk thus lowering their cost price, they might pay their employees less, or be able to afford to make a lower %age on each item if their shoppers generally buy more than one item (as they're not just selling cleaning products).
When you're retailing, all you can do is work out your price and sell at that - if people don't like it, they won't pay it and you go out of business.
Realistically, you will never ever be able to always get the cheapest available of everything which you buy, no matter how much you shop around, so you just have to settle for paying what you're happy with...and if you're happy with paying that much, to have something sold to you at that price isn't immoral!
Rob.
Davel said:
I'm all for making a decent profit but wouldn't like to either mislead, miss sell or rip off a customer.
I'd be horrified if any of my staff did either.
In this case the customer was neither mislead or miss sold.
Were they ripped off? It's debatable... it all depends whether it can be deemed that the bin is worth £15 (in which case the Matalan price was a bargain)
As a distributor of one of the cleaning products cataloges, I can say that with a lot of the prices they are the same and in some cases less than you can pay on the high street, a lot of my customers are elderly people, and for some of them, I am the only person they seem to speak to. I have been known in my neighbourhood to go round and knock on doors very loud if I haven't seen certain person pottering around for a few days. It's not just the products, it's the service to for some people.
I also have other customers who buy the same item month in mounth out, as the catalogue is the only place where they can find a specific thing.
I don't feel that I am part of some sort of scam or con, I have even been known to send customers to the likes or Argos etc for something they could have ordered from me but I have seen a few quid cheaper elsewhere (but then I used to do that while working at Asda!)
We're not all bad guys, you have a choice, if you don't like the prices or the products then don't buy. (but please tell your distributor not to come again, and please don't throw the catalogues away if they are coming back for them.....lost catalogues really do eat into our money!)
>> Edited by speedchick on Monday 27th February 13:37
I also have other customers who buy the same item month in mounth out, as the catalogue is the only place where they can find a specific thing.
I don't feel that I am part of some sort of scam or con, I have even been known to send customers to the likes or Argos etc for something they could have ordered from me but I have seen a few quid cheaper elsewhere (but then I used to do that while working at Asda!)
We're not all bad guys, you have a choice, if you don't like the prices or the products then don't buy. (but please tell your distributor not to come again, and please don't throw the catalogues away if they are coming back for them.....lost catalogues really do eat into our money!)
>> Edited by speedchick on Monday 27th February 13:37
speedchick said:
We're not all bad guys, you have a choice...
...and please don't throw the catalogues away if they are coming back for them.....lost catalogues really do eat into our money
What? We don't have the choice of whether or not we recive your marketing literature through out letter boxes. It's specifically distributed in a manner that excempts itself from the Mail Preference Service. I consider that way more invasive then being spammed. Not only can I not dispose of this unsolicted nonsense by simply pressing delete, you have the audacity to request that I store it for you pending collection at your convience.
I'll tell you this. Loosing your catalogue is way cheaper than the fee for ad hoc rental of space in my hall per square foot per week.
It's a tricky one. If the state tries to dictate retail prices, it won't be too long before we all live in a communist country. Equally, I don't want the elderly (or other vulnerable people) being ripped off. I guess the thing about a free economy is that "rip off merchants" soon get a reputation for such, and eventually go out of business.
Morals and money are always an awkward boundary.
In general, I am out to make money. Be it in business or whenever the opportunity arrives. Quick example, English banks issue neither £1 nor £100 notes. Various people I know have sold £100 notes for £110 in pubs in England. Now, your bank will accept them usually, but they technically arent legal tender outside Scotland. Thats about as imoral as you can get, selling someone a product that is most definately only worth £100 for £110 and something which by letter of the law isnt legal tender. But, its not really that bad is it?
I think the only area where a definate line in the sand should be drawn is in the case of praying on the elderly or infirm with pressure sales techniques. ie Its completely fair game when presented with someone who has made an educated descision to make as much as possible, however, it is highly imoral to do the same unto someone who is unable to make an educated descision.
In general, I am out to make money. Be it in business or whenever the opportunity arrives. Quick example, English banks issue neither £1 nor £100 notes. Various people I know have sold £100 notes for £110 in pubs in England. Now, your bank will accept them usually, but they technically arent legal tender outside Scotland. Thats about as imoral as you can get, selling someone a product that is most definately only worth £100 for £110 and something which by letter of the law isnt legal tender. But, its not really that bad is it?
I think the only area where a definate line in the sand should be drawn is in the case of praying on the elderly or infirm with pressure sales techniques. ie Its completely fair game when presented with someone who has made an educated descision to make as much as possible, however, it is highly imoral to do the same unto someone who is unable to make an educated descision.
emicen said:And can you tell me who you bank with? I have some £243 notes that I need to deposit and HSBC are being less than helpful.
Quick example, English banks issue neither £1 nor £100 notes. Various people I know have sold £100 notes for £110 in pubs in England. Now, your bank will accept them usually, but they technically arent legal tender outside Scotland.
Gruffy
JonRB said:
I think the only area where a definate line in the sand should be drawn is in the case of praying on the elderly or infirm 
Main culprit of the £100 note trading is my girlfriends father. He works between bases in Glasgow and Warwick so always goes down south with a couple of notes to trade.
slapmatt said:
Caveat Emptor?
Absolutely, but clearly some buyers are less aware than others - and I think both these schemes are designed to target these buyers.
We run a business that targets specific buyer groups. Does that makeus immoral? Not really, it just means we know our market. Why would you run a business and try and sell a product/service to people who don't want to buy it or even need it!
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