911 TT ( mit power Pack ) v 911 GT2
Discussion
having read various articles & threads on rennlist.
The turbo with the X50 pack brings it up to 450bhp which is more or less in line with the GT2.
In terms of power that is one thing but considering the TT is 4wd & has PSM where as the GT2 is 2wd without electronic aids,Thay will be completely different driving experiences,for most applications the TT will probably be faster than the GT2.But a very skilled driver will probably be able to get more out of the Gt car.I would imagine the 2wd would make the driver a little more alive.
The turbo with the X50 pack brings it up to 450bhp which is more or less in line with the GT2.
In terms of power that is one thing but considering the TT is 4wd & has PSM where as the GT2 is 2wd without electronic aids,Thay will be completely different driving experiences,for most applications the TT will probably be faster than the GT2.But a very skilled driver will probably be able to get more out of the Gt car.I would imagine the 2wd would make the driver a little more alive.
Confusing, if the 911 TT has more grip and they are evenly matched for Power, then the TT 's limits must be slightly higher than the 911 GT2 in a skilled / non skilled drivers hands.
under braking the 911 TT should be better
under acceleration the 911 TT should be better
whilst cornering (guess this is debatable but I think the TT will be better)
maybe for more enjoyment in the TT, read go faster than you think you can (on Track anyway)
In the Gt2 you will have to work hard to keep it straight, but guess if the speed on the TT is raised then it would be hard as well.
>> Edited by okey on Monday 23 December 14:00
under braking the 911 TT should be better
under acceleration the 911 TT should be better
whilst cornering (guess this is debatable but I think the TT will be better)
maybe for more enjoyment in the TT, read go faster than you think you can (on Track anyway)
In the Gt2 you will have to work hard to keep it straight, but guess if the speed on the TT is raised then it would be hard as well.
>> Edited by okey on Monday 23 December 14:00
Just to put it in perspective the X50 TT runs the Turbos at 0.9 bar VS the same turbo in the GT2 at 1.0 bar.This accounts for the slight bhp advantage of the GT2.
I guess they try to set the GT as the unobtainable pinnacle,where as it appears to fall short of the TT other than in it's perfectly suited enviroment of the racetrack or pub car park where it is at an advantage over the TT.
I guess they try to set the GT as the unobtainable pinnacle,where as it appears to fall short of the TT other than in it's perfectly suited enviroment of the racetrack or pub car park where it is at an advantage over the TT.
dazren said: Okey
Let us not forget that the GT2 is 100kg lighter than the turbo.
DAZ
okay thats one factor in the GT2's favour. But that equals one passenger, is that enough.. I dont see it. I have been passed by a GT2 and also by a TT with the power pack.
I could just abpout hang on to the GT2 because of similar configurations.. 400 BHP and RWD, against the TT it was so obvious that it could brake so much later and get on the power so much quicker, I felt the 911 TT was simply quicker.. (Factoring into account driver ability and levels)
clubsport said: Just to put it in perspective the X50 TT runs the Turbos at 0.9 bar VS the same turbo in the GT2 at 1.0 bar.This accounts for the slight bhp advantage of the GT2.
I guess they try to set the GT as the unobtainable pinnacle,where as it appears to fall short of the TT other than in it's perfectly suited enviroment of the racetrack or pub car park where it is at an advantage over the TT.
I agree with you as I think the standard 911 TT is a shade below the GT2 and on par / shade quicker than say a 360M, but with the power pack it is even better than a Lambo Muci (spelling ??)So how does it really fare against the GT2. I suspect it will be quicker in real life terms, on the road and on the track.. in anyones hands (race drive / novice)
dazren said: Okey
Personally I think the 996tt X50 is a better car for an average driver. But there are drivers out there who could get the best out of the GT2, but I think they are fewer in number.
DAZ
(biased)
How ?????
I think the TT X50 has more of an edge, all four wheels are retarding the car under braking, front two are pulling the car out of corner, the rear two are pushing it , thus more grip, more stablity...
the back of the GT2 will slide out in a corner and thus straighting the car and aiding the drive out, but the 911 has all the weight in the back so I imagine the same principle will apply to the TT..
For fun what about trail braking and Scandianvian flick, dont think any one will try that out in the GT2
The TT 's configuration means it has higher limits than the GT2.. So if you can corner at say 70 mph in the GT2 should that read 75 for the TT. It should do, no matter the driver..
biased eigh ??? take it you own one ? Did you have the factory setting changed ?
>> Edited by okey on Monday 23 December 15:23
okey said: Confusing, if the 911 TT has more grip and they are evenly matched for Power, then the TT 's limits must be slightly higher than the 911 GT2 in a skilled / non skilled drivers hands.
under braking the 911 TT should be better
under acceleration the 911 TT should be better
whilst cornering (guess this is debatable but I think the TT will be better)
maybe for more enjoyment in the TT, read go faster than you think you can (on Track anyway)
In the Gt2 you will have to work hard to keep it straight, but guess if the speed on the TT is raised then it would be hard as well.
>> Edited by okey on Monday 23 December 14:00
I guess this is presumed due to the 4 wheel drive of the TT?
There is no reason why the TT should be any better under braking than the GT2 - indeed the GT2 may very well prove slightly better given the lower kg/square inch of contact patch. The idea of a 4 wheel drive car slowing quicker than an equivalent 2 wheel drive car is a myth, as is the idea that 4 wheel drive create's more lateral grip. Once again, given that the 4WD TT weighs more than the GT2 for equal amounts of rubber on the road, the GT2 should be capable of slightly higher peak lateral G.
Where the GT2 will lose out is of course under acceleration as traction is the big advantage of 4 wheel drive. This could possibly result in a higher mean speed from entry to exit of a given bend as the TT starts accelerating sooner. Balanced against which the GT2 should have a slightly higher minimum corner speed, so it has less accelerating to do.
In simple terms I would expect a TT to be quicker round a tight twisty circuit where its traction advantage could be used to the full, and a GT2 to be quicker round fast sweeping circuits where traction becomes less of an issue.... Of course the GT2 may be more challenging to extract 'max-attack' from than a TT, but I'm basing these assumptions on 2 highly skilled drivers.
Ok. Just got back from the pub 
so I'm bound to be talking out of my ar*e (as per usual) but if 4WD was the ultimate setup for track use, why wasn't the GT2 (designed for the track almost exclusivley) given 4WD ? Additionally, PSM is not provided to make drivers go round tracks more quickly.
We need a race driver, who's driven both, to give his humble opinion, don't we ?
so I'm bound to be talking out of my ar*e (as per usual) but if 4WD was the ultimate setup for track use, why wasn't the GT2 (designed for the track almost exclusivley) given 4WD ? Additionally, PSM is not provided to make drivers go round tracks more quickly. We need a race driver, who's driven both, to give his humble opinion, don't we ?
I think the GT2 may have better breaking than the TT as the GT has the Porsche Ceramic disc braking system fitted as standard,where as They are optional on the TT & C4S....I am assuming the brakes are up to working temp rather than on the school run for maximum effect.
The 2 cars are so different in approach.I have driven C2 vs C4 & I can only imagine how exagerated the difference is between the 2 cars in question.
The 2 cars are so different in approach.I have driven C2 vs C4 & I can only imagine how exagerated the difference is between the 2 cars in question.
Hi TrackDemon
Strange under braking I expect the FWD to be better, the four wheels are simultaneously slowing the car down through the transmission … (thus a combination of heavy braking / engine braking)
In a RWD, only the rear is connected to the transmission, so the fronts will be slowing down a little less than a FWD.
Not sure about the lateral grip but if there is grip, two more wheels pulling the car should improve the grip..
So really
TT Heavier (100kg)
TT More Traction
TT same Grip as GT2 (better ???)
TT better under braking
TT Same power as GT2
TT more safe Aids
I somehow think the 911 TT would be quicker on any given road, and on most tracks / weather conditions..
Strange under braking I expect the FWD to be better, the four wheels are simultaneously slowing the car down through the transmission … (thus a combination of heavy braking / engine braking)
In a RWD, only the rear is connected to the transmission, so the fronts will be slowing down a little less than a FWD.
Not sure about the lateral grip but if there is grip, two more wheels pulling the car should improve the grip..
So really
TT Heavier (100kg)
TT More Traction
TT same Grip as GT2 (better ???)
TT better under braking
TT Same power as GT2
TT more safe Aids
I somehow think the 911 TT would be quicker on any given road, and on most tracks / weather conditions..
There will be less bhp at the wheels on the TT, as there will be more transmission losses, so this would be another performance aid in the GT2's advantage, but I would agree with Dazren, more drivers would get more out of a TT, as opposed to a few drivers getting loads out of the GT2.
Just my 2p
davidy
Just my 2p
davidy
HermanTheGerman said: Ok. Just got back from the pub
We need a race driver, who's driven both, to give his humble opinion, don't we ?
wish I was at a pub !!!!!!!! working this week WTF..
I found it a bit strange that Porsche decided to up the power on the TT.. (if it is a GT / town toy then 415 HP is more than enough)why the power hike ?
Most people think AWD cars don’t work well on the track.. From experience they do. It’s a question of how fast do you normally drive then dial in 10%, when an AWD is on the limit, it is quite an experience. If it goes, you don’t have a hope in hell, as you would have been flying at the time of impact.
And that’s in the dry. In the wet, well you could slide at great speeds all day. Trail brake, four wheel drift... whatever
As for PSM, I think Porsche got it the wrong way round, put the PSM in the GT2, it could be called upon… in the TT not so important. Not sure of the PSM setting in the Porsche, but then again you can turn it off.
Yep we do need someone who has driven both hard to make some comments…
clubsport said: I think the GT2 may have better breaking than the TT as the GT has the Porsche Ceramic disc braking system fitted as standard,where as They are optional on the TT & C4S....I am assuming the brakes are up to working temp rather than on the school run for maximum effect.
The 2 cars are so different in approach.I have driven C2 vs C4 & I can only imagine how exagerated the difference is between the 2 cars in question.
okay I can see the difference with the brakes. Take it the C2 was a much better drive ? driver involvement and all that , but was it that much quicker ?
okey said: Hi TrackDemon
Strange under braking I expect the FWD to be better, the four wheels are simultaneously slowing the car down through the transmission … (thus a combination of heavy braking / engine braking)
In a RWD, only the rear is connected to the transmission, so the fronts will be slowing down a little less than a FWD.
Not sure about the lateral grip but if there is grip, two more wheels pulling the car should improve the grip..
So really
TT Heavier (100kg)
TT More Traction
TT same Grip as GT2 (better ???)
TT better under braking
TT Same power as GT2
TT more safe Aids
I somehow think the 911 TT would be quicker on any given road, and on most tracks / weather conditions..
Hi Okey,
Under *extreme* braking such as you would experience at a trackday the 4WD car would probably have slightly longer braking distances due to the extra weight of the system; having the wheels connected to the the drivetrain simply helps reduce lockup in extremis. A properly setup and balanced braking system (as you would take for granted on a Porsche!) should work like this. ABS takes care of any lockup otherwise...
As I mentioned lateral grip is in its simplest term a rubber versus weight deduction. Obviously the tyres, suspension setup, aerodynamics etc will affect this but as we're talking about two fairly similar cars in these respects I would expect the GT2's slightly lower weight to produce higher lateral G overall (added to which is the GT2's more aggresive track orientated setup).
So really
TT Heavier (100kg) = higher loads on the tyres, lower corner speed
TT More Traction = better exit speed from low speed corners
GT2 slightly better grip than TT = more overall corner speed, balanced against traction losses in slower bends
GT2 better under braking
TT more safe Aids
Most normal drivers would probably go a fair bit quicker in a TT due to the 'help' the car give's the driver, whereas if a pair of professional drivers were to race TT vs GT2 my money would be on the GT2 every time. Unless its wet of course!
Umm, the closest i have ever got to either of these cars is watching them from trackside, so I hope you guys don't think i'm talking out of turn ...
can we all just agree that they are both ridiculously fast!!
I watched a 996 GT2 hang onto the back of a wrungout F40 down the back straight of Knockhill over the summer.
WOW!
Moonie
can we all just agree that they are both ridiculously fast!!
I watched a 996 GT2 hang onto the back of a wrungout F40 down the back straight of Knockhill over the summer.
WOW!
Moonie
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