fence argument
Discussion
A friend of mine is having issues with her neighbour.
Basically they are neighbouring semis (not the same building, but 2 separate semis). The drives are divided by a wooden fence with concrete posts - you know, the short 3-foot high cheapy things. Anyhow, it transpires that this fence is totally on my friend's land by a good 2-3 inches inside her plot (the posts are 5 inch square) and this makes it difficult for her to park the car on the drive as its designed for a morris minor. She wants to rip the fence out, and put gravel across the divide between the properties, as its currently taking up about 7 inches of her space.
Also, in retaliation, the neighbour has a garage. That garage wall butts up against the dividing line between the properties at the end of the fence, which is ok. But my friend instead of a similar garage, has a big wooden gate that is secured on one side to the neighbour's garage wall, and on the other side to my friend's house. The neighbour is insisting that the gate be secured to a post, and not her garage wall. Can she insist on this? The gutter for the garage overhangs my friend's driveway down the side of her house!
Its all a bit silly, so any advice?
Basically they are neighbouring semis (not the same building, but 2 separate semis). The drives are divided by a wooden fence with concrete posts - you know, the short 3-foot high cheapy things. Anyhow, it transpires that this fence is totally on my friend's land by a good 2-3 inches inside her plot (the posts are 5 inch square) and this makes it difficult for her to park the car on the drive as its designed for a morris minor. She wants to rip the fence out, and put gravel across the divide between the properties, as its currently taking up about 7 inches of her space.
Also, in retaliation, the neighbour has a garage. That garage wall butts up against the dividing line between the properties at the end of the fence, which is ok. But my friend instead of a similar garage, has a big wooden gate that is secured on one side to the neighbour's garage wall, and on the other side to my friend's house. The neighbour is insisting that the gate be secured to a post, and not her garage wall. Can she insist on this? The gutter for the garage overhangs my friend's driveway down the side of her house!
Its all a bit silly, so any advice?
I'm no expert, but my field is sort of relevant.
1) Without going into Squatters rights etc, I would have said that your friend can ask for the fence to be placed in the correct position, but the total removal would have to be agreed on by both parties. Something more specific may be mentioned in your friends documentation however.
2) I would have said that under the party wall act, your friend should have asked permission first before fixing to the neighbour's property - and would have thought they are within their rights to refuse. Not too sure on the gutter issue, however it would make a good bargaining point with regards to the fence fixing issue.
I hope something I have written is remotely useful!!
Matt
1) Without going into Squatters rights etc, I would have said that your friend can ask for the fence to be placed in the correct position, but the total removal would have to be agreed on by both parties. Something more specific may be mentioned in your friends documentation however.
2) I would have said that under the party wall act, your friend should have asked permission first before fixing to the neighbour's property - and would have thought they are within their rights to refuse. Not too sure on the gutter issue, however it would make a good bargaining point with regards to the fence fixing issue.
I hope something I have written is remotely useful!!
Matt
i dont know about the second question, but my parents had a similar problem to #1 with a house they are building. Miserable git next door was being arsey with us saying the builders merchant's trucks going down the driveway would make his wall fall down so we asked our solicitor to tell us our situation, apparently the wall is actually built on our land so we could knock it down tomorrow if we wanted to and theres not a thing he could do about it
If the fence really is on your friends land, do what you want with it.
The gate should not be hung from the neighbours garage without permission.
The guttering should not encrouch on your friends land, which by overhanging the boundary line, it does, however it would seem that the only practical way of resolving this is to remove the guttering, causing the run off from the garage to flood the driveway or whatever else is behind the gate. Not good.
Remember that all negative comunication between neighbours has to be recorded at the time of sale, so beware of a bad relationship, much better to talk through a compromise.
The gate should not be hung from the neighbours garage without permission.
The guttering should not encrouch on your friends land, which by overhanging the boundary line, it does, however it would seem that the only practical way of resolving this is to remove the guttering, causing the run off from the garage to flood the driveway or whatever else is behind the gate. Not good.
Remember that all negative comunication between neighbours has to be recorded at the time of sale, so beware of a bad relationship, much better to talk through a compromise.
If the fence is entirely on her land, she can just remove it provided there is nothing in the deeds to say that she must maintain a certain type of boundary treatment...housing developers regularly write in such clauses on modern developments to ensure that tidy, uniform appearance is maintained.
As MattyBoy says, the garage/gate issue is covered by the Party Wall Act
If the wall is genuinely on the boundary, then she has a right to do work to it, including fixing of items. What is questionable is whether she should have given her neighbour notice of her intention to do the work. Personally, I'd be fairly confident that fixing a patress to hang a gate from is sufficiently minor not to necessitate notice. There is no significant risk of structural damage to the wall and, to quote from the guidance on the above link:
(QUOTE)
'Q. What about things like putting up shelves or wall units, or installing recessed electric sockets, or removing and renewing plaster?
A. Some works on a party wall may be so minor that service of notice under the Act would be generally regarded as not necessary.
Things like:
drilling into a party wall to fix plugs and screws for ordinary wall units or shelving cutting into a party wall to add or replace recessed electric wiring and sockets replastering may all be too minor to require a notice under the Act.
The key point is whether your planned work might have consequences for the structural strength and support functions of the party wall as a whole, or cause damage to the Adjoining Owner's side of the wall. If you are in doubt about whether your planned work requires a notice you might wish to seek advice from a qualified building professional.'
(END QUOTE - my bold)
Conversely, (assuming the work was undertaken after the Paty Wall Act came into force), the neighbour should definitely have served notice of their intention to build a wall on the boundary line. Quote from the above link, again:
(QUOTE)
'If you plan to build a party wall or party fence wall astride the boundary line, you must inform the Adjoining Owner by serving a notice....You may want to base your notice on Example Letter 4. However, there is no right to build astride the boundary without your neighbour's agreement in writing ....
You must also inform the Adjoining Owner by serving a notice if you plan to build a wall wholly on your own land but up against the boundary line. You may want to base your notice on Example Letter 6.
The Act contains no enforcement procedures for failure to serve a notice. However, if you start work without having first given notice in the proper way, Adjoining Owners may seek to stop your work through a court injunction or seek other legal redress.'
(END QUOTE - my bold, again)
Hope that helps...
>> Edited by Sam_68 on Wednesday 1st March 07:51
As MattyBoy says, the garage/gate issue is covered by the Party Wall Act
If the wall is genuinely on the boundary, then she has a right to do work to it, including fixing of items. What is questionable is whether she should have given her neighbour notice of her intention to do the work. Personally, I'd be fairly confident that fixing a patress to hang a gate from is sufficiently minor not to necessitate notice. There is no significant risk of structural damage to the wall and, to quote from the guidance on the above link:
(QUOTE)
'Q. What about things like putting up shelves or wall units, or installing recessed electric sockets, or removing and renewing plaster?
A. Some works on a party wall may be so minor that service of notice under the Act would be generally regarded as not necessary.
Things like:
drilling into a party wall to fix plugs and screws for ordinary wall units or shelving cutting into a party wall to add or replace recessed electric wiring and sockets replastering may all be too minor to require a notice under the Act.
The key point is whether your planned work might have consequences for the structural strength and support functions of the party wall as a whole, or cause damage to the Adjoining Owner's side of the wall. If you are in doubt about whether your planned work requires a notice you might wish to seek advice from a qualified building professional.'
(END QUOTE - my bold)
Conversely, (assuming the work was undertaken after the Paty Wall Act came into force), the neighbour should definitely have served notice of their intention to build a wall on the boundary line. Quote from the above link, again:
(QUOTE)
'If you plan to build a party wall or party fence wall astride the boundary line, you must inform the Adjoining Owner by serving a notice....You may want to base your notice on Example Letter 4. However, there is no right to build astride the boundary without your neighbour's agreement in writing ....
You must also inform the Adjoining Owner by serving a notice if you plan to build a wall wholly on your own land but up against the boundary line. You may want to base your notice on Example Letter 6.
The Act contains no enforcement procedures for failure to serve a notice. However, if you start work without having first given notice in the proper way, Adjoining Owners may seek to stop your work through a court injunction or seek other legal redress.'
(END QUOTE - my bold, again)
Hope that helps...
>> Edited by Sam_68 on Wednesday 1st March 07:51
If your friend gets no real joy, why not just lop a bit off the fence at the front of the property (the boundary betweeen your friend and the pavement, rather than the 'disputed' one between your friend and the neighbour) and park a little bit further to the left? It would appear that your friend does not drive through the gate and park beside the house, so if she has to park three or four inches further to the left then would that be a problem?
Regarding the guttering, I would imagine there's not a lot to be done, other than maybe insisting that the down pipe drains onto their property rather than your friend's if the neighbours are getting arsey.
Regarding the guttering, I would imagine there's not a lot to be done, other than maybe insisting that the down pipe drains onto their property rather than your friend's if the neighbours are getting arsey.
chim_knee said:
Are those cars "anatomically correct", as in, does one person have a hatch-back and one have an estate? Did you really go to the trouble of drawing the cars accurately?! Please say you did!
I think the one on the left is a new shape focus.
not sure about the other one.
B17NNS said:
Are those cars "anatomically correct", as in, does one person have a hatch-back and one have an estate? Did you really go to the trouble of drawing the cars accurately?! Please say you did!
I think the one on the left is a new shape focus.
not sure about the other one.
But the neighbour must be doing alright for herself as the one on the right looks like a Porsche Cayenne......
timmy30 said:Looks more like a Grand Voyager to me.... No wonder they need a wide drive
Are those cars "anatomically correct", as in, does one person have a hatch-back and one have an estate? Did you really go to the trouble of drawing the cars accurately?! Please say you did!
I think the one on the left is a new shape focus.
not sure about the other one.
But the neighbour must be doing alright for herself as the one on the right looks like a Porsche Cayenne......
My neighbour and I had a good solution. Our drives were at different heights etc and there was a real danger of breaking your ankle getting in or out of the car. We had a chat and had them both block paved at the same time with a line of different coloured pavers down the middle. Sorted out all the levels and it works a treat
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