111S or 111R

[mark_graphic]

I have a dilema.

I used to have an MR2 Turbo but now I have an S2 Sports Tourer which I love but its not fast enough top end. Ive test driven the 111R and I like it alot but im not sure its raw enough because of the sound proofing and extra comfy ride etc but I love the power. So should I go for the 111S instead.

Any comments would be nice.

Cheers

Mr Indecisive

[Tam]

I don't think the 111S is *that* much quicker than the standard car so you wouldn't see a significant difference. If you want more power, and you're thinking of spending enough to get a 111R, I'd consider (in order of expense):

a honda/audi conversion
an exige
a DVA tweak

[rico]

clicky

Happy reading

[jitsukadave]

I consider the 111S the softer of the two cars. The only benifit in terms of rawness for me is proper brakes on the 111S and the hardtop as (almost) standard. Otherwise, most of them have more creature comforts on board - like carpets as standard...

I'm looking for a 111S just for the hardtop getting down to Monaco and the brakes.

[gooby]

Specify a 111R with out the touring pack etc.. You can have it as raw as you like.

The 111s will go out of production soon.

>> Edited by gooby on Thursday 2nd March 15:16

[beachbum]

I have the 111R with no touring pack. Its raw enough for most.

[Tam]

Are the brakes on the 111S any different to the standard car??

[bogie]

the Elise has the aerodynamics of a brick...to get it to go proper quick at the top end (i.e. do more than just keep up with diesel exec saloons) you need about 200bhp in an S1/S2 and 220-240bhp in a 111R

if you are really hankering after 80-150mph performance then buy a pre-converted car with an Audi or Honda lump in it.....theres always a few for sale.

[shot2bits]

bogie said:

the Elise has the aerodynamics of a brick...to get it to go proper quick at the top end (i.e. do more than just keep up with diesel exec saloons) you need about 200bhp in an S1/S2 and 220-240bhp in a 111R if you are really hankering after 80-150mph performance then buy a pre-converted car with an Audi or Honda lump in it.....theres always a few for sale.

I always thought my 111R was pretty quick up to 140mph - quicker than most diesel execs!

[gooby]

shot2bits said:

bogie said: the Elise has the aerodynamics of a brick...to get it to go proper quick at the top end (i.e. do more than just keep up with diesel exec saloons) you need about 200bhp in an S1/S2 and 220-240bhp in a 111R if you are really hankering after 80-150mph performance then buy a pre-converted car with an Audi or Honda lump in it.....theres always a few for sale. I always thought my 111R was pretty quick up to 140mph - quicker than most diesel execs!

Agreed! The copper who pulled me and (thankfully) gave me a warning, could not catch me in his 330. Right up to 130.

Your point is valid, the 111r is bloody quick to 80 and very quick to 120. You dont need any more.

[jitsukadave]

Tam said:

Are the brakes on the 111S any different to the standard car??

Nope - they're the same. The 111R has ABS, with which comes servo assistance, so there's more pedel travel and takes a much less firm shove.

I'm just not a fan of servo assisted anything.

[shnozz]

There is a certain yellow standard S2 Elise (ok, ok, running trick tyres and suspension, but engine wise standard) who is always one of the fastest around the UK circuits.

No Elise has oodles of straight line power. If you want that, I suggest buying a Cerbera which is a beast in a straight line. I would be surprisedi f you knew how quick your standard car could be in such a short time. Not a criticism, just an observation from someone who came from quicker straight line cars and took quite a few months to realise how quick the elise can be, albeit driven totally different.

[RobM77]

jitsukadave said:

I'm looking for a 111S just for the hardtop getting down to Monaco and the brakes.

You can get a hardtop for any Elise variant though can't you?

I agree about the brakes - probably the single biggest reason that I went for the S over the R. I couldn't get on with the R's brakes at all. I'd have liked ABS though.


Having chopped in my BMW because I hated the controls, the last thing I want to do was buy a car that I ended up hating the controls on, so I went for the S with the proper brakes

The power delivery of the S and the R is also totally different of course. This depends on how you like to drive. I normally waft about on the torque of a car, and my engine's rarely warm enough to use major revs anyway (work is a 15 minute journey and I'm very careful and thorough with warming a car up before I give it the full banana). Also bear in mind the speeds where you need the power, and work out the speeds you're doing in the R to access the car's power in 2nd and 3rd gear.

Also, the R is heavier than the S and you can feel it - though I should say that some may see the differences as better. The R's suspension is revised and it feels more 'planted' - I prefer the daintiness of the lighter cars, but wanted the extra comforts and longer top gear, so I went for the S.

Depends how you view your Elise really and how you drive. I find the Elise a feminine and sublime driving experience - delicate and fine. Ergo, the lack of power in the S wasn't a big concern for me and the upshot is that I benefit from proper brakes and a lighter car. If you're more into acceleration and a car feeling planted, go for the R. These differences are subtle though and the S vs R thing was a close call for me

The link to that other thread will give more info I'm sure.

[bogie]

what you forget is that in your 111R you probably are ragging the arse off it in gear...the guy in the exec saloon has just pressed the accelerator a bit in 5th gear gear (or auto even!)

...guess it depends on what you define as 'quick'.......but personally I dont even find 300bhp in an Elise that 'quick' over 120mph to things like 535d's or A8 4.0d etc...you still really have to rag it to leave them...its certainly not an effortless walking away from them type affair once you are over a ton.

[RobM77]

shnozz said:

No Elise has oodles of straight line power. If you want that, I suggest buying a Cerbera which is a beast in a straight line. I would be surprisedi f you knew how quick your standard car could be in such a short time. Not a criticism, just an observation from someone who came from quicker straight line cars and took quite a few months to realise how quick the elise can be, albeit driven totally different.

So, so true. I used to own a Caterham and experienced other people's Caterhams as well as driving a few different varients. Having regularly felt 300bhp/tonne plus I got used to that and to me that was 'fast'. To me, any Elise just feels like it 'gathers speed', rather than accelerates - actually I thought this even before I owned a Caterham. I'm totally in love with my new Elise though , so there's definately more to it that straight line shove - well, for me anyway.

[RobM77]

gooby said:

The 111s will go out of production soon.

I believe that the S is already out of production. Dealers had to register 'new' Ss before the end of '05 so there's a few very low mileage (40-100 miles) 'new' cars around now for about £24k and then that's it.

[bogie]

RobM77 said:

shnozz said: No Elise has oodles of straight line power. If you want that, I suggest buying a Cerbera which is a beast in a straight line. I would be surprisedi f you knew how quick your standard car could be in such a short time. Not a criticism, just an observation from someone who came from quicker straight line cars and took quite a few months to realise how quick the elise can be, albeit driven totally different. So, so true. I used to own a Caterham and experienced other people's Caterhams as well as driving a few different varients. Having regularly felt 300bhp/tonne plus I got used to that and to me that was 'fast'. To me, any Elise just feels like it 'gathers speed', rather than accelerates - actually I thought this even before I owned a Caterham. I'm totally in love with my new Elise though , so there's definately more to it that straight line shove - well, for me anyway.

exactly - if you have a high bhp car but with low torque and you have to rev it you dont get the same sensation as you do say with a moderate BHP/high torque car...especially with a turbo...the Audi Elises really *feel* fast when 250-300lb/ft kicks in at 2500 revs ! ...my car has an SC rather than turbo - because its so linear and power/torque build with revs it dosent *feel* as fast as a turbo...although it is.

The best thing about an Elise is that any speed feels fast compared to a luxury saloon...doing a ton you really feel it....cruising at 120mph in silence in a saloon you dont.

Bottom line is, if you want fast in a straight line, the Elise isnt the best car to start with...you need a sh*t load of power to notice it.

[boggy]

RobM77 said:

gooby said: The 111s will go out of production soon. I believe that the S is already out of production. Dealers had to register 'new' Ss before the end of '05 so there's a few very low mileage (40-100 miles) 'new' cars around now for about £24k and then that's it.

Hi all,

No disrepect here but unless you can get an S for less than 21k then I wouldn't touch it, simple fact is that there bringing out the Elise R soon and it will be a better all round package. I'm very sorry If I've upset anyone as I don't mean to, I'd either go for an R or save a little and buy the Exige S

Boggy

[ChristianM]

RobM77 said:

Also, the R is heavier than the S and you can feel it

In reference to this comment, I may be wrong(?) but is it not true that the difference in weight between the 111S and 111R is bigger than a quick glance at the spec sheet suggests for the following reason...the S basically has the touring pack kit as standard and so the published weight vehicle is pretty faithful to the vehicle on the road (if no other options are added) where as most 111Rs are ordered with the touring pack so the final weight is beyond that of the spec sheet.

[RobM77]

boggy said:

RobM77 said: gooby said: The 111s will go out of production soon. I believe that the S is already out of production. Dealers had to register 'new' Ss before the end of '05 so there's a few very low mileage (40-100 miles) 'new' cars around now for about £24k and then that's it. Hi all, No disrepect here but unless you can get an S for less than 21k then I wouldn't touch it, simple fact is that there bringing out the Elise R soon and it will be a better all round package. I'm very sorry If I've upset anyone as I don't mean to, I'd either go for an R or save a little and buy the Exige S Boggy

Fair point. I thought the same with regard to getting money off, but the dealer I spoke to about their very low mileage S was resolute about sticking to the £24k price, despite the arrival of the new car; even though I made it clear that I had the money and was ready to go then and there. To be totally honest, I'd rather have an S for that money (as apposed to the new Elise R) as the S has the touring pack as standard, proper brakes and weighs 800kg - which makes it a better car IMHO. I'll reserve final judgement though till I've tried a new spec Elise with the slack taken out of the brake and the lower drive by wire throttle that suits heel and toe better.