N/A Porsche Engine

[foryorent]

What is the most power that you can get from a N/A porsche flat 6?

993 3.6l?
996 3.6l?
is a GT3 engine different from these? How about that?
993 GT3 engine?
996 GT3 engine?
997 GT3 engine?

So what is the most power you can get from modding these engines and still keep them reliable and street drivable?

[slippydiff]

For N/A 993 engines Colin Belton at 9M is the man to speak to, he currently runs a 993 RSR at 420 bhp (but is looking to up that further still.
N/A 996 GT3 MK 1 and 2, I'd imagine Manthey is the man to speak to (though there are other companies such as PSI)
Are you looking for figures from competition engines or road engines ? Either way, why do you ask ?

>> Edited by slippydiff on Monday 6th March 17:52

>> Edited by slippydiff on Monday 6th March 17:52

[foryorent]

Road engine, but as much power as you can get without making the power band too narrow.

Just wondering if I should go twin turbo or high reving GT3 engine in my upcoming 993 cab conversion.

The twin turbo has been my dream since I was 10, the high reving N/A sort of appeals to me now. Guess I gotta drive both.

But it will be going into a 1996 or 97 993 cab, with fully upgraded suspension, brakes, ligth weight carbon fiber wide body conversion and body panels, customized interior, ect.
Nothing too extreme, just a race preped look for the road.

Looking for info before I dive into the project.

Thanks!

[iguana]

Like the idea of GT3 lump in a 993, nice reliable completely stock un-tempramental 400bhp from a GT3RS engine, lovely jubbly, dont think its ever been done yet & the cooling issues may cause you a few headaches tho.

[DanH]

foryorent said:

Road engine, but as much power as you can get without making the power band too narrow. Just wondering if I should go twin turbo or high reving GT3 engine in my upcoming 993 cab conversion. The twin turbo has been my dream since I was 10, the high reving N/A sort of appeals to me now. Guess I gotta drive both. But it will be going into a 1996 or 97 993 cab, with fully upgraded suspension, brakes, ligth weight carbon fiber wide body conversion and body panels, customized interior, ect. Nothing too extreme, just a race preped look for the road. Looking for info before I dive into the project. Thanks!

Lol, never seen a race prepped cab

Post some pics when its done. It sounds like you have a huge budget!

[R1_JON]

Could always consider a Supercharger.

Strikes me as strange to seek that much power for a cab? Fun though...

[DanH]

foryorent said:

What is the most power that you can get from a N/A porsche flat 6? 993 3.6l? 996 3.6l? is a GT3 engine different from these? How about that? 993 GT3 engine? 996 GT3 engine? 997 GT3 engine? So what is the most power you can get from modding these engines and still keep them reliable and street drivable?

Hmm think you may need to do more research. There is no 993 GT3. Furthermore the 996 GT3 & TT lumps are expensive and very different to the cooking 996 3.4l or 3.6l engines.

Have you considered the complications of trying to plumb a water cooled engine into a car never designed for it? This sounds like a huge project, hence my earlier comments. Surely just tuning a 993 engine to the levels you desire would be more economical, and likely more reliable etc.

[paultje]

I thought that the 996 GT3 engines cost circa 40k new!! Even second hand (if you can find one!) it's going to be expensive. As for 993TT, the only problems ( other than getting hold of one ) are getting enough cooling to the engine, and traction on the road. Good luck tho', sounds like an interesting idea...

[foryorent]

Thanks for the info.

I knew that going to a water cooled engine would be a lot of work, not really something I was considering just wanted to know what th epotential of the engine is.

Looks like I will be sticking with my 3.6, and modding it in steps. I'll get all the power out of it I can then see if I want to go the twin turbo route.

The car will definetly have a real wide track (1.5" wider rear fenders than turbo), do you think I will be able to put that power to the ground if I go with a twin turbo setup?

How is putting the power down in a GT2? I know they refer to it as the widow maker, is this just because it is a turbo with out awd?

All wheel drive is just too heavy, and wont let me play around with the tail end when I want. Plus if the car realy needs it, I can swap out the trans and go awd.

[slippydiff]

Sorry to bring up Colin Beltons name again (no link with etc etc............)
Colin built a single turbo, Motec managed 993 cab last rear, narrow bodied, I seem to recall it was circa 560hp Suggest you give him a ring if your serious.

[bergmeister]

There is /was such a thing called a 993gt3 engine.It was the very limited 993rsr cup car,made for the new at the time gt3 class racing in the us,asia and australia.Some countries called it a 993gt3.

For normal aspo engines ,drive ability and reliability are key.Cheapest and most reliable way,for more power would be a 993 turbo engine,or may be supercharged.
of course it depends on how much power you require

Gt3r or rsr engine rebuilds ,very expensive.

[gfreeman]

There is a race GT3 engine on ebay at the mo.... 425hp going for £10k.

like to see the look on the spanners face when you pop that in your OPC for a splash and dash...

[flemke]

First, it depends on the use. There are NAs that produce well over 500, but they're not exactly tractable enough for real-world use.

Second, the measurement itself is highly subjective. There are places that will mod your engine, over-inflate the tyres, put the car on their rolling road and blast a huge wodge of cold air into the air plenum (and probably have a dozen other tricks as well). No surprise that they tend to get good numbers.

[ninemeister]

In order of gain/cost, this is what is possible with an aircooled 993VR 3.6 engine, whats more these are proven results from our own dyno, not speculation:

1. Live remap 300-305bhp & 375Nm £500
2. 9m 993+1 = sport cams, 100 cell cats, remap 320bhp & 390Nm £5k
3. 9m 993+2 = heads, sport cams, cats, remap 355bhp & 420Nm (Demo car available) £10k
4. 9m 993+3 = 3.8 conversion with 9m pistons, heads, sprint cams, cats, remap 375bhp & 420Nm £14k
5. current 3.8 "race" engine (103 p&c, rods, heads, race cams, intake, cats, Motec ecu) 415bhp & 440Nm (Should be out again for RS track day on 18th) £20k

And finally Ester, coming soon in 2006

6. New 4.0 race engine; estimate 450bhp & 450Nm from: 9m billet stroker crank, 9m rods, P&C, 9m heads, new 9m billet cam & DLC followers, 9m carbon intake, headers, 9m ecu ...... £30k. We are already underway building a road version of the 4.0 engine for a customer with a 964 Speedster as well as two 4.0 race engines, one for my 993RS and the other for a customers 964RS.

The conversions are all based around the developments that we have been making with our partners 4-Tech, specifically the new machined from solid cylinder head which will be featured in depth in a Total 911 magazine article soon.


Regarding the watercooled GT3, it could be fitted into the 993 shell but it would be far cheaper to just buy a mk1 996GT3, but there is little sense in doing this unless you are thinking of upgrading the engine to well beyond 400bhp.

As for what is possible with the GT3 engine, we think that 500bhp n/a is doable for a road car and ultimately 600bhp n/a is achieveable from a race engine. Suffice to say that 9m/4T are currently working on it to prove the point ......

>> Edited by ninemeister on Wednesday 8th March 10:00