Work...Education...Abroad....Descisions...
Discussion
I've come to a stage in my Life where I have to stop and think. Stop my life taking me nowhere and start taking my life somewhere.
The biggest descision I have to make now is whether to stay working as a labourer for a year or so and then join the RAF as a Technician of somesort (probably weapons but who knows) or to go into FE and either get a trade as a Tradesman (i'm looking at plumber or spark, but neither have that Lifelong job appeal) or as a Surveyor (could be an interesting job, and, according to a couple of surveyors I was talking to last week, has good career prospects) or architect (but again, not something with lifelong appeal).
Now, FECollege/Uni route is not a route I would take without some kind of sponsorship (ie, work for a company and they pay me through Uni/FEC etc) as my finances are just dire at the moment and with debts running into thousands of pounds, most banks won't even look at me. But I have no idea how to go about getting onto such a scheme.
But, then comes the Prospect of getting work afterwards. Sponsorship schemes are good because most companies offer a Full Time job once you've graduated (this makes sense really). But, where is the work to be found. Hearing of people linked to PH in some way getting paid off is a regular occurance (Graham.J's dad earlier this week for instance). What with companies trimming down to lower costs and bringing in more and more computers and robots to do jobs, the work just doesn't seem to be there.
So my questions are as follows,
1. What would you do in my position. I understand the majority of Phers are in IT in someway. I've tried it but didn't like BillGatesDom. But I would appreciate some advice.
2. Where is the best place to find work. GB, Europe, USA, further afield.
All answers Gratefully Accepted at this difficult stage.
Thanks all in advance
Stuart.
The biggest descision I have to make now is whether to stay working as a labourer for a year or so and then join the RAF as a Technician of somesort (probably weapons but who knows) or to go into FE and either get a trade as a Tradesman (i'm looking at plumber or spark, but neither have that Lifelong job appeal) or as a Surveyor (could be an interesting job, and, according to a couple of surveyors I was talking to last week, has good career prospects) or architect (but again, not something with lifelong appeal).
Now, FECollege/Uni route is not a route I would take without some kind of sponsorship (ie, work for a company and they pay me through Uni/FEC etc) as my finances are just dire at the moment and with debts running into thousands of pounds, most banks won't even look at me. But I have no idea how to go about getting onto such a scheme.
But, then comes the Prospect of getting work afterwards. Sponsorship schemes are good because most companies offer a Full Time job once you've graduated (this makes sense really). But, where is the work to be found. Hearing of people linked to PH in some way getting paid off is a regular occurance (Graham.J's dad earlier this week for instance). What with companies trimming down to lower costs and bringing in more and more computers and robots to do jobs, the work just doesn't seem to be there.
So my questions are as follows,
1. What would you do in my position. I understand the majority of Phers are in IT in someway. I've tried it but didn't like BillGatesDom. But I would appreciate some advice.
2. Where is the best place to find work. GB, Europe, USA, further afield.
All answers Gratefully Accepted at this difficult stage.
Thanks all in advance
Stuart.
dunno what age you are mate but joining the RAF is a good idea providing you go for a commission as soon as poss (do not listen to all those who poo poo the idea)aim for a trade with transferrable skills such as Air Elect, Avionics etc. See the world, well some of it anyway, have a good crack and take as many courses as you can.......oh and drink too much as well
Hi Stuart
I'm in Insurance/Banking and things have got tighter and worse as ever year passes, I studied etc but after talking to various customers who have a trade ie: plumbers and electricians etc they seem to be the ones earning the good money not middle management types. I may be wrong on this but we will always need these trades whether in this country or abroad...
Interesting...
RAF route, not been in myself, every other male member of my family for years has been air force or navy though, a good and rewarding career can be had out of it, getting transferable skills is important as Apache says. I am a little too anti-authority for it myself, but if you have the temperament its potentially a good move.
IT - Well, thats what I do do and its bleak out there. I work in a niche sector thats the worst I have seen it for 10 years and am led to believe by friends that this is also broadly speaking the case. A good friend who is an exceptionally skilled VB developer is unable to find anything within 50 miles. The days of having basic skills and making a killing are long gone. Probably only a option if you hide away in a Uni for a few years and hope to get picked up on the milk round.
As for your other options I can but tell you this. Out of all my mates, who are developers, consultants, salesman, self employed, dot-commers and a few other trades its the Plumber who is doing the best for himself by a country mile at the moment...
Hope some of this waffling helps!
Good luck mate.
Matt.
>> Edited by Plotloss on Friday 27th December 18:07
RAF route, not been in myself, every other male member of my family for years has been air force or navy though, a good and rewarding career can be had out of it, getting transferable skills is important as Apache says. I am a little too anti-authority for it myself, but if you have the temperament its potentially a good move.
IT - Well, thats what I do do and its bleak out there. I work in a niche sector thats the worst I have seen it for 10 years and am led to believe by friends that this is also broadly speaking the case. A good friend who is an exceptionally skilled VB developer is unable to find anything within 50 miles. The days of having basic skills and making a killing are long gone. Probably only a option if you hide away in a Uni for a few years and hope to get picked up on the milk round.
As for your other options I can but tell you this. Out of all my mates, who are developers, consultants, salesman, self employed, dot-commers and a few other trades its the Plumber who is doing the best for himself by a country mile at the moment...
Hope some of this waffling helps!
Good luck mate.
Matt.
>> Edited by Plotloss on Friday 27th December 18:07
Thanks guys.
On the side of the plumber/spark. I was on a site 2 weeks ago, and the Foreman asked me if I knew of any good Plumbers as he is short.
Most people in the trade have said that there is a shortage of decent plumbers/sparks as the Apprentiship takes 5 years to be time served. A local company to me usually has 3 or 4 Apprentices, but the last 2 years hasn't had any, despite advertising.
Being in the Air Training Corps, I've been almost Groomed for RAF life, the Drill, the Learing and the Discipline. But, it's something that I am reluctant to do for various reasons.
Cheers.
On the side of the plumber/spark. I was on a site 2 weeks ago, and the Foreman asked me if I knew of any good Plumbers as he is short.
Most people in the trade have said that there is a shortage of decent plumbers/sparks as the Apprentiship takes 5 years to be time served. A local company to me usually has 3 or 4 Apprentices, but the last 2 years hasn't had any, despite advertising.
Being in the Air Training Corps, I've been almost Groomed for RAF life, the Drill, the Learing and the Discipline. But, it's something that I am reluctant to do for various reasons.
Cheers.
An interesting one. I am in my final year of uni, but have decided to join the RAF as a graduate and go for fast-track promotion prospects.
This could be the answer - get the RAF to sponsor you through uni and then join up, do your tour, gain as many skills as possible and then join private sector in ten years or so.
That's my plan and I hope it will work out - I just need to get accepted by the RAF now - keep everything crossed!!
>> Edited by mannginger on Friday 27th December 19:50
This could be the answer - get the RAF to sponsor you through uni and then join up, do your tour, gain as many skills as possible and then join private sector in ten years or so.
That's my plan and I hope it will work out - I just need to get accepted by the RAF now - keep everything crossed!!
>> Edited by mannginger on Friday 27th December 19:50
Not much point in going to university (whoever pays) if there's no job at the end of it. That's the trouble with universal education, if everybody's got it, what good does it do any of them?
If I was starting out again, and wanted to make a good living, I would learn plumbing. No way they are going to replace that with a machine, or export it to India (which is where most of the IT jobs are going to end up soon)
John
If I was starting out again, and wanted to make a good living, I would learn plumbing. No way they are going to replace that with a machine, or export it to India (which is where most of the IT jobs are going to end up soon)
John
Was in the same position a few years back. I got a Sixth Form Scholarship, Flying Scholarship and was in a UAS for a year, but got pi$$ed off with it all.
Having a degree does open a lot of doors (even a poor one!), but it's still a bit of a fight, no matter what kind of industry you are looking at. I get to speak to all kinds of people in my line of work, and those tradesmen I meet always seem to be doing alright for themselves.
The two most successful people (financially) in my group of friends from school both dropped out of Uni. They did both go for IT careers though...
Why not go get some decent advice from a careers centre? The might point you in a direction you hadn't previously considered.
Best of luck!
Having a degree does open a lot of doors (even a poor one!), but it's still a bit of a fight, no matter what kind of industry you are looking at. I get to speak to all kinds of people in my line of work, and those tradesmen I meet always seem to be doing alright for themselves.
The two most successful people (financially) in my group of friends from school both dropped out of Uni. They did both go for IT careers though...
Why not go get some decent advice from a careers centre? The might point you in a direction you hadn't previously considered.
Best of luck!
pies said: whatever you do make sure you enjoy doing it.Dont do something you dont enjoy as the path you choose now will probabally affect your whole life
AT LAST.
Somebody who looks at work the way I do.
I sat and got really slatted by my mates on Sunday because I work for Min Wage.
"Why don't you work in the Hydro (a local hotel) or Safeway and get more money"
Because I enjoy working where I do, at the moment, it's not about money, it's enjoying the job, getting job satisfaction, and the people. I get up in the morning and say, "Another day a work. FCUKING YES!
" Jumping into my overalls etc.
How many people can say they do that in IT, or even Safeway.
I think my descision will take some time, I'm more of a cable person than a pipe person, but I like things that are very methodical. Plumbing/Electrical/Plans they all interest me, It's finding the one that will interest me for 40/50 years rather than a few months.
Finding something that you enjoy is important, but don't write off sectors like IT, Engineering, the profesions etc as not being fun.
Successful people in every walk of life have to push that little bit harder, and that is not possible without getting a kick out of what you do. Most of the time spent in professional work is about communication and team building etc, so it doesn't really matter if the title says coding, designing, counting (although I must admit to see where the fun is in Audit - sorry guys each to their own).
The earning potential is definitely shifting - I pay many of my draughtsmen (skilled) more than most of the Engineers (professionals), just because there is a shortage. I want University places cut dramaticaly because we do have a big shortage of skilled workers - I cahllenge you to find me a welder under 35.
So, I'm definitely not saying that one side of the fence is better than the other - or that there is a fence at all. Just that it is very easy to write off a path without really knowing what is involved.
If you want the money, the percentage bet is to train as a plumber and work for yourself. You need to remeber though that you will be working on your own most of the time - is that what you want? Ups and downs to every job you see.
Finally, you say that you have a job at the moment that you would almost pay to do. Why not see if there is a career path that starts from where you are right now???
Successful people in every walk of life have to push that little bit harder, and that is not possible without getting a kick out of what you do. Most of the time spent in professional work is about communication and team building etc, so it doesn't really matter if the title says coding, designing, counting (although I must admit to see where the fun is in Audit - sorry guys each to their own).
The earning potential is definitely shifting - I pay many of my draughtsmen (skilled) more than most of the Engineers (professionals), just because there is a shortage. I want University places cut dramaticaly because we do have a big shortage of skilled workers - I cahllenge you to find me a welder under 35.
So, I'm definitely not saying that one side of the fence is better than the other - or that there is a fence at all. Just that it is very easy to write off a path without really knowing what is involved.
If you want the money, the percentage bet is to train as a plumber and work for yourself. You need to remeber though that you will be working on your own most of the time - is that what you want? Ups and downs to every job you see.
Finally, you say that you have a job at the moment that you would almost pay to do. Why not see if there is a career path that starts from where you are right now???
The RAF is a superb career in my view. I applied myself earlier this year but messed up the interview stage and as you have already said you have been doing Air Cadets, etc for years you should be able to get in. The amount of courses and the like will give you a skill set when you leave that will be hard to beaten in civvy street.
However, if you decide that that is not for you at this time I can give you two examples from my group of friends who are earning far above any of the rest of us.
First one is a quantity surveyor who had a firm sponsor him through his qualifications. The second is a chippie who has several months off a year and although works long hours is never out of work if he wants it.
However, if you decide that that is not for you at this time I can give you two examples from my group of friends who are earning far above any of the rest of us.
First one is a quantity surveyor who had a firm sponsor him through his qualifications. The second is a chippie who has several months off a year and although works long hours is never out of work if he wants it.
At a bit of a crossroads then adict?
My cousing left the RAF last year after 12 years. He has a fantastic background in enginerring and walked into a job at some southern airport – forget whch one though – doing the servicing on the planes. He had a really good RAF life too because he played footie for them. Hardly at home at weekends, always on some plane or another to sunnier climes for some tournament.
Had a carpet fitter round last week - contracted to the local CarpetRight, making £1600 a week working for himself. Nice money, but boring job to be honest. Removed our old carpets, then fitted two massive carpets, did the landing etc in three hours! they charge £2 per square metre to fit it. Money for old carpet! if you're quick!
Trades such as plumbing and sparkies, there's a shortage cos no kids want to do it now, there's no women on site, the bored housewives are now out working and the old man is out of work, so for all the home jobs, you get a bloke answer the door!
Plus, if you're out on the sites, chances are, there's no heating in cos you're the one going in first, so no heat, no women – middle of winter. Who wants to do that as a trade?
Take your pick and chose carefully.
My cousing left the RAF last year after 12 years. He has a fantastic background in enginerring and walked into a job at some southern airport – forget whch one though – doing the servicing on the planes. He had a really good RAF life too because he played footie for them. Hardly at home at weekends, always on some plane or another to sunnier climes for some tournament.
Had a carpet fitter round last week - contracted to the local CarpetRight, making £1600 a week working for himself. Nice money, but boring job to be honest. Removed our old carpets, then fitted two massive carpets, did the landing etc in three hours! they charge £2 per square metre to fit it. Money for old carpet! if you're quick!
Trades such as plumbing and sparkies, there's a shortage cos no kids want to do it now, there's no women on site, the bored housewives are now out working and the old man is out of work, so for all the home jobs, you get a bloke answer the door!
Plus, if you're out on the sites, chances are, there's no heating in cos you're the one going in first, so no heat, no women – middle of winter. Who wants to do that as a trade?
Take your pick and chose carefully.
MikeyT said: At a bit of a crossroads then adict?
My cousing left the RAF last year after 12 years. He has a fantastic background in enginerring and walked into a job at some southern airport – forget whch one though – doing the servicing on the planes. He had a really good RAF life too because he played footie for them. Hardly at home at weekends, always on some plane or another to sunnier climes for some tournament.
Had a carpet fitter round last week - contracted to the local CarpetRight, making £1600 a week working for himself. Nice money, but boring job to be honest. Removed our old carpets, then fitted two massive carpets, did the landing etc in three hours! they charge £2 per square metre to fit it. Money for old carpet! if you're quick!
Trades such as plumbing and sparkies, there's a shortage cos no kids want to do it now, there's no women on site, the bored housewives are now out working and the old man is out of work, so for all the home jobs, you get a bloke answer the door!
Plus, if you're out on the sites, chances are, there's no heating in cos you're the one going in first, so no heat, no women – middle of winter. Who wants to do that as a trade?
Take your pick and chose carefully.
Hi Mikey.
I'm reluctant to sign up to the RAF at the mo. It's a good life etc, but my image of the RAF is an RAF that existed 40 years ago, the RAF that it isn't today. I'm gonna leave it as a last resort.
As far as Site work is concerned. I was labouring for our Joiner last week at work, the flat has had the kitchen and bathroom stripped out, no central heating as the boiler was in the kitchen and is being refitted. Leccy and that the lot. Lets just say that on the coldest morning we've had so far this winter, it was warmer outside than it was inside. So I'm used to the cold and being on sites. Also used to turning up to jobs and having blokes answer the door etc. Prefer the jobs we do in Shops/Offices. Some Loverly Ladeeeez in their
Thanks all for all your help. I've said previously the descision doesn't need to be made immediatly, I have got time to sleep on it etc. But if I leave it much longer I'll run out of time to sleep and need to make an on-the-spot descision, which always ends up in making the wrong choice
Cheers.
MikeyT said:
Trades such as plumbing and sparkies, there's a shortage cos no kids want to do it now,
Exactly thats why they are paying so well, a friend of mine is a Plumber and he is over pricing his work to try and put people of 'cos he is stacked out and they still want him.
Plus, if you're out on the sites, chances are, there's no heating in cos you're the one going in first, so no heat, no women – middle of winter. Who wants to do that as a trade?
Not really that Bad it something you get use too. I work 30ft up most days with a wind chill factor i suppose it can easily get to -10++ and it hasnt done me any harm,cant beet fresh air and real light.
Stuffy office,Flouescent lights NO THANKS.
I Agree with the fact the the RAF isnt as good as it used to be, but then what is.Also if your looking at doing Mechanics,electrics etc arent you likely to be in a hanger so at least that would be open.
Its a hard decision but are you the sort of person who is gonna need to change jobs alot due to getting bored with what u do,if so at least in the RAF you might be able to move into diffrent areas.
BB
Edited to add 'No Women', who cares, all that money you'lll be earning they will be crawling all over u
>> Edited by Ballistic Banana on Saturday 28th December 19:28
As I am in the very early stages of my RAF Application (ie: just got the forms in) I was wondering if any of you here, Adict, Nigel etc. would be able to enlighten me on any useful hints/tips etc and how to avoid any pitfalls - (interview was mentioned earlier)
What are the tests like? The initial Physical etc. any info would be greatly appreciated.
e-mail me from my profile if any of you can/want to help but want to keep the thread vaguely on topic!
Many thanks
Phil
What are the tests like? The initial Physical etc. any info would be greatly appreciated.
e-mail me from my profile if any of you can/want to help but want to keep the thread vaguely on topic!
Many thanks
Phil
I would certainly consider the forces as an option, especially in the next few years.
The UK economy is ok, but not great, IT jobs are being trimmed as they are in a lot of other areas. The advantage with the forces are basically a reasonably good starting salary - remember if you are single and live on base you don't have to pay for accomadation or food, and you can learn a good trade, and demand is high. I wouldn't go for weapons - there's not a huge demand for armourer's in civvie street (quarries?), but certainly consider IT, electronics etc as well as engineering - e.g join the armoured engineers, get a commision and do a civil engineering degree through the OU which they will pay for and give you the time off necc to do it, do your 10 years get a reasonable pension then consult for civvie firms (my mates Dad did exactly that) - Its worth a thought.
The UK economy is ok, but not great, IT jobs are being trimmed as they are in a lot of other areas. The advantage with the forces are basically a reasonably good starting salary - remember if you are single and live on base you don't have to pay for accomadation or food, and you can learn a good trade, and demand is high. I wouldn't go for weapons - there's not a huge demand for armourer's in civvie street (quarries?), but certainly consider IT, electronics etc as well as engineering - e.g join the armoured engineers, get a commision and do a civil engineering degree through the OU which they will pay for and give you the time off necc to do it, do your 10 years get a reasonable pension then consult for civvie firms (my mates Dad did exactly that) - Its worth a thought.
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