Griff cuts out intermittently

[intdev85]

Hi

I am experiencing an intermittent (of couse!) running problem with my 95 Griff 500.

Basically, the car runs happily for a few miles, gets quite warm and loosened up, then the power just dies. Usually, this happens at the most inconvenient times (overtaking!) but has also happend just ticking over in the garage.

After 'wiggling' various wires under the bonnet, primarily main lead to coil, connectors on the ignition amplifier, I can usually get it fired up again (but not at the moment!). A classic and racing specialist looked at it and thought it may be to do with the alarm (Foxguard F1-11), but in the week they had it, the fault didn't materialise! I think the alarm is unlikley the cause as when the immobiliser kicks in, the starter won't turn and I can always get the engine to turn over, just not fire.

Alas, the car doesn't doo many miles. 2 years ago the ignition amplifier (main dealer) was replaced and in the last 12 months, it's had genuine Land Rover dist cap and rotor arm and Magnicore leads plus regular servicing (Austec).

Any suggestions greatly received

[BIG DUNC]

Glad I am not the only one pulling my hair out.
Pull a spark plug out to see whether you have a spark, and whether its dry or wet.
Best of luck

[griffsmith]

intdev85 said:

Hi I am experiencing an intermittent (of couse!) running problem with my 95 Griff 500. Basically, the car runs happily for a few miles, gets quite warm and loosened up, then the power just dies. Usually, this happens at the most inconvenient times (overtaking!) but has also happend just ticking over in the garage. After 'wiggling' various wires under the bonnet, primarily main lead to coil, connectors on the ignition amplifier, I can usually get it fired up again (but not at the moment!). A classic and racing specialist looked at it and thought it may be to do with the alarm (Foxguard F1-11), but in the week they had it, the fault didn't materialise! I think the alarm is unlikley the cause as when the immobiliser kicks in, the starter won't turn and I can always get the engine to turn over, just not fire. Alas, the car doesn't doo many miles. 2 years ago the ignition amplifier (main dealer) was replaced and in the last 12 months, it's had genuine Land Rover dist cap and rotor arm and Magnicore leads plus regular servicing (Austec). Any suggestions greatly received

I had an occasional cut out which was (I think) caused by the engine bay loom rubbing on the back of the drivers side head casting this wore through all the insulation and I had bear wires on two injector wires... I think what was happening was that occasionally the wire would touch and short our the injectors/ECU.. just a shot in dark really, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was happening to someone else due to the packaging in this area..
Just run your hand down the injector loom branch to where it joins the main loom and make sure it isn't or hasn't be rubbing on anything!! worth a try as its really easy.

[intdev85]

Thanks for the info. Will lock myself in the garage on Sat (gets me away from the kids!) and try your suggestions.

[GreenV8S]

Classic symptoms of a fuel pump relay on the way out. However if you can hear the pump running when the fault occurs, the relay is OK and it must be something else.

[intdev85]

After some investigating at the weekend, the problem is definitely electrical .. no spark!

As everything from the leads to the plugs has been changed in the last 12 months, I am suspecting the coil or ignition amp. The last ignition amp was fitted by a Surrey based, former main dealer turned independent, and from the other poor work they have done on my car, I suspect they might not have used genueine parts!

Can anybody let me have the part numbers for the coil and ignition amp. I have checked the alternative parts list from the Griffith Pages and there appears to be a choice on the coil:

Coil - Bosch - Land Rover part number PRC6574, Bosch part number 0 221 122 392.(fits 98 for sure)
ACTIGA04 Bosch coil Rover V8, the best quality available £44.50 + VAT

Do both have the same terminals and is one considered better than the other?

Any idea of the part number for the ignition amp?

My car is a '95 Griff 500 Serpentine.

The car is due for a service at Austec in a month or so but gonna struggle to get it there at the moment. There's always RAC Relay I suppose, but I'd like to get to the bottom of the problem before then cos it's been quite sunny of late and depressing to see my car stranded in the garage!

[wheeljack888]

These chaps seem to be quite good value:

www.land-rover-parts-shop.com/

STC1184G for the Lucas ignition module £28+vat
PRC6574 for the Bosch ignition coil £35+vat

Cheers

Phil

[GreenV8S]

Start by testing that you have +12v on both sides of the coil with the ignition on and the engine stopped. You can test the coil itself just by earthing the -ve side biefly - this should produce a nice fat spark on the king lead.

[v8 racing]

My money would certainly be on the ignition amp

[intdev85]

Thanks guys. Coil and ignition amp on order. Even if they don't fix the problem, the coil is probably original and is suspect. The problem usually arrises when the car is hot and I know (through personal experience) this is a sympton of the ignition amp failing. Can't do any harm to change them and relatively cheap.

[cptsideways]

Dodgy heat effected wiring to & from the coil system, 100% guaranteed you heard it here first

[intdev85]

"Dodgy heat effected wiring to & from the coil system, 100% guaranteed you heard it here first"

so do I need to replace part of the wiring loom?

[intdev85]

Up until now, wiggling the connector on the ignition amp seemed (in most cases) to get my engine to fire up. Can the connector be bought independently. Where from? Is there anything I can do to ensure the problem doesn't occur again?

[GreenV8S]

In that case I suggest you clean and re-crimp the connectors as a first step.

[intdev85]

Unfortunately, I don't get time to venture into the garage during the week so I shall have another go at the weekend, based on your suggestions. New coil and amp should be here by then and it won't do any harm to change them, and if they are not at fault, I have spares for when the do fail!

I just want to say thanks to everyone who contributed to this, my first post on PH. I will post my success or otherwise!

[Ballistic Banana]

David this thread might be of interest re the Ignition Module CLICKY HERE

BB

[intdev85]

Ballistic Banana said:

David this thread might be of interest re the Ignition Module CLICKY HERE BB

Hi Simon. I too thought he bracket was a heat sink only. In fact, that is what I was told by the RAC man who diagnosed the problem resulting me changing the module 2 or so years ago.

Do the modules generally have a short lifespan? Mine is about 2.5 years old. In that time, shamefully , I have only covered about 4K miles. I do however regularly run the car in the garage and therefore get the engine hot. Doing so, the engine isn't getting any cooling air across it so the heat just builds up (rather nice in February!). Perhaps it's this heat that has led to a possible premature demise of the module (if that is indeed the problem)?

[andy43]

From memory the amp mounts with two screws through two rivet-type metal bits going through the amplifier body - these DO act as a path to earth, so loose mounting could maybe cause dodgy running. The heatsink paste is important too, to help with transfer of heat - if you've left the car running with no airflow through the engine bay, it could well have slowly cooked the amp. Mine had the dizzy-mount amp, but it was moved to the chassis rail (same as the remote-mount idea) 'cos it was found HT interference was upsetting it and causing the idle speed to go nuts. Best of luck

>> Edited by andy43 on Wednesday 15th March 16:42

[intdev85]

andy43 said:

From memory the amp mounts with two screws through two rivet-type metal bits going through the amplifier body - these DO act as a path to earth, so loose mounting could maybe cause dodgy running. The heatsink paste is important too, to help with transfer of heat - if you've left the car running with no airflow through the engine bay, it could well have slowly cooked the amp. Mine had the dizzy-mount amp, but it was moved to the chassis rail (same as the remote-mount idea) 'cos it was found HT interference was upsetting it and causing the idle speed to go nuts. Best of luck >> Edited by andy43 on Wednesday 15th March 16:42

Hi Andy. When I replace my amp this weekend I am now asuming I need to use some heatsink paste? I didn't know there was such a thing. I must confess my mechanical prowess/knowledge is somewhat lacking! Is there a brand name to look for and where can I get it from? Halfords? Sorry for my ignorance!

[griffsmith]

intdev85 said:

Hi Andy. When I replace my amp this weekend I am now asuming I need to use some heatsink paste? I didn't know there was such a thing. I must confess my mechanical prowess/knowledge is somewhat lacking! Is there a brand name to look for and where can I get it from? Halfords? Sorry for my ignorance!

I got some from Maplin any computer store should also do it cos its the same stuff as yuo use between PC chips to heatsinks.. I went over board and bought some silver based stuff. not really required, I 'think' the normal is silicone based..
Mind you when I bought my amp (from ACT) it also came with this paste and a new plug and spade clips. I think it was a 'conversion kit' as my previous amp was the old old style with out any plug just two spade clips..
good luck

P.S. You only need a very thin even layer on the amp face. it there to improve conduction of heat away, not to actually do any cooling, so to too much will reduce its effectiveness..


>> Edited by griffsmith on Thursday 16th March 11:38