M3 CSL WITH M5 ENGINE !

[360stimo]

Friend of mine, who sells prestige cars (ex touring car driver), phoned me today as he knows im looking at swapping my daily drive M3 Convertable for a CSL.

He has a left hand drive M3 CSL coming in, that has had an M5 engine put in it by tuning company Hartge. Price is 105,000 Euros !!!

Any Takers ! What a crazy idea and crazy money!

[off_again]

Yep silly money - but yes, they do exist....

Barking mad...

[Zod]

There are suggestions that the bigger engine upfront does the car no favours. Most such Hartge conversion are wheelspinning monsters, like Brabus Mercs.

[Zod]

it's only 40bhp over a CSL in any case.

[DoctorD]

I remember the guy that had this commissioned, one of his employees posted details and pictures on BM3W at the time. It was about 18 months ago IIRC. Much of the conversation on the thread centred on how poor the quality of the modifications were, how it looked like a 'modified by Halfords' job and what a waste of a good car it was. There's probably still photos of it somewhere on the CSL forum in BM3W.

[foz01]

Zod said:

it's only 40bhp over a CSL in any case.

I was hoping it was the new V10

[Zod]

They haven't done that yet, although they will no doubt with the new M3.

[Chris_s]

What a waste of time and money. Standard CSL is fantastic. A standard M5 (old shape) is fantastic. A heavier engine in a CSL with only 40bhp more is daft.

Chris
M3 CSL
Ex M5 owner

[slippydiff]

3.2 litre screaming (great scream I admit) six, versus 5 litre grunting V8, each and every one to their own, but BMW seemed to quite like the latter combination
Loads of BS written about the engine weight, I'm told the difference is 10Kg extra over the six.
Yes the C of G of the V8 maybe a bit higher but it has got bigger holes in the block and there's more of them !

[iguana]

Hurrah a proper engine for a CSL rather than that demented wasp in a jam jar thing


Official info- www.hartge.de/html/e46m3uk.html

[225]

EVO have a new 3 series with a tweaked V10 in it by hartage. Nippy enough I would say.
The V8 might "only" have 40bhp more but a fair bit more torque though does it not?

[Zod]

slippydiff said:

3.2 litre screaming (great scream I admit) six, versus 5 litre grunting V8, each and every one to their own, but BMW seemed to quite like the latter combination Loads of BS written about the engine weight, I'm told the difference is 10Kg extra over the six. Yes the C of G of the V8 maybe a bit higher but it has got bigger holes in the block and there's more of them !

The only V8 that should be fitted to an M3 is the M3 GTR one.

>> Edited by Zod on Thursday 9th March 22:41

[Marquis_Rex]

Zod said:

slippydiff said: 3.2 litre screaming (great scream I admit) six, versus 5 litre grunting V8, each and every one to their own, but BMW seemed to quite like the latter combination Loads of BS written about the engine weight, I'm told the difference is 10Kg extra over the six. Yes the C of G of the V8 maybe a bit higher but it has got bigger holes in the block and there's more of them ! The only V8 that should be fitted to an M3 is the M3 GTR one. >> Edited by Zod on Thursday 9th March 22:41

I've litterally been weighing up BMW engine options for my next E21 project, there isn't alot of difference between the cast iron block M3 engine weight and the S62 V8. Whether it suits the character of the car is another matter....
Zod, What's your opinion of the Rover V8'd E30 M3 BMW then?

>> Edited by Marquis_Rex on Monday 13th March 14:20

[pitsnow]

If a V8 in the E30 M3, why not use a LS1?
This has been done before, see PPC magazine. Can't remember the issue but was late in 2005.
The engine would not be much heavier than a RV8 but with a lot more potential.

Cheers Peter

[slippydiff]

Doesn't really fit in with the whole M Power ethos does it ?

[Marquis_Rex]

slippydiff said:

Doesn't really fit in with the whole M Power ethos does it ?

I TOTALLY agree, I can't personally stand all these hideous 4 pot turbo charged cossie motors shoe horned into M cars, or home grown pushrod V8s into M cars. I like yank V8s, but I don't think it fits in with the ethos either.
It's like a way to express the glory of the underdog/"working class hero", outright primative muscle over fine optimisation. WTF?. Just wanted to see other peoples opinions.

>> Edited by Marquis_Rex on Tuesday 14th March 06:45

[Zod]

Marquis_Rex said:

Zod, What's your opinion of the Rover V8'd E30 M3 BMW then?

I'd rather have an E30 M3, thanks very much.

[Zod]

iguana said:

Hurrah a proper engine for a CSL rather than that demented wasp in a jam jar thing

blasphemy! In any case, you're thinking of the normal M3. With the big airbox, the CSL sounds completely different. The induction roar is deep and loud and drowns out the exhaust rasp.

[Marquis_Rex]

Zod said:

iguana said: Hurrah a proper engine for a CSL rather than that demented wasp in a jam jar thing blasphemy! In any case, you're thinking of the normal M3. With the big airbox, the CSL sounds completely different. The induction roar is deep and loud and drowns out the exhaust rasp.

Can that airbox be fitted to a standard E36 M3 (not E46).
I know the E36 M3 inlet is held together by a series of jubliee clips, is it the same on the CSL near the cyl head?

Is the CSL intake plenum/airbox assembly expensive?

[slippydiff]

Marquis Rex said:

Is the CSL intake plenum/airbox assembly expensive?

Hugely, I heard And not a straightforward replacement as the CSL uses Alpha N to "measure" fuel/air mixture as opposed to a hot film/wire system on the "standard" E46 M3.