Track Day Lens?

[bernie_eccle]

Last weekend I visited the track day at East Fortune. Other than being freezing cold I enjoyed the day and was pretty pleased with the results (some below). I presently have a D70 and a Nikkor 70-300 1:4-5.6 G lens and was wondering if a better lens might help the results further. Any thoughts on a replacement? I would probably take the eBay route and would be looking to spend perhaps £250-£300 max. I am going to watch the Indycar race at St Pete's in Florida in 3 weeks time so would like to upgrade my kit.
Cheers
Stewart


Exposure time 1/320 s
F-number f/5.6
Exposure program Shutter priority
Max. aperture value f/5.7
Metering mode Pattern
Flash Flash did not fire.
Focal length 300 mm
Custom Rendered Normal process
Exposure mode Auto exposure
White balance Auto white balance
Focal length in 35mm film 450 mm



Exposure time 1/400 s
F-number f/5.6
Exposure program Aperture priority
Compressed BPP 4
Max. aperture value f/5.7
Metering mode Pattern
Flash Flash did not fire.
Focal length 300 mm
Exposure mode Auto exposure
White balance Auto white balance




Exposure time 1/250 s
F-number f/5.6
Exposure program Aperture priority
Max. aperture value f/5.7
Metering mode Pattern
Light source unknown
Flash Flash did not fire.
Focal length 300 mm
Exposure mode Auto exposure
White balance Auto white balance




Exposure time 1/320 s
F-number f/6.3
Max. aperture value f/4.1
Metering mode Pattern
Light source unknown
Flash Flash did not fire.
Focal length 105 mm
Exposure mode Auto exposure
White balance Auto white balance
Focal length in 35mm film 157 mm




Exposure time 1/200 s
F-number f/5.6
Exposure program Aperture priority
Max. aperture value f/4.1
Metering mode Pattern
Light source unknown
Flash Flash did not fire.
Focal length 130 mm
Exposure mode Auto exposure
White balance Auto white balance
Focal length in 35mm film 195 mm





Exposure time 1/400 s
F-number f/5.6
Exposure program Aperture priority
Max. aperture value f/4.1
Metering mode Pattern
Light source unknown
Flash Flash did not fire.
Focal length 122 mm
Exposure mode Auto exposure
White balance Auto white balance
Focal length in 35mm film 183 mm






Exposure time 1/320 s
F-number f/5.6
Exposure program Shutter priority
Compressed BPP 4
Max. aperture value f/5.7
Metering mode Pattern
Light source unknown
Flash Flash did not fire.
Focal length 300 mm
Exposure mode Auto exposure
White balance Auto white balance
Focal length in 35mm film 450 mm



Exposure time 1/400 s
F-number f/6.3
Exposure program Shutter priority
Compressed BPP 4
Max. aperture value f/5.7
Metering mode Pattern
Light source unknown
Flash Flash did not fire.
Focal length 300 mm
Exposure mode Auto exposure
White balance Auto white balance
Focal length in 35mm film 450 mm


Exposure time 1/250 s
F-number f/9
Exposure program Shutter priority
Compressed BPP 4
Max. aperture value f/5.7
Metering mode Pattern
Light source unknown
Flash Flash did not fire.
Focal length 300 mm
Custom Rendered Normal process
Exposure mode Auto exposure
White balance Auto white balance
Focal length in 35mm film 450 mm

EDIT to add exif data

>> Edited by bernie_eccle on Sunday 12th March 10:16

[fergusd]

Dude,

The one thing I thought looking at your pics was focus/blur . . .

Shutter speed didn't look to slow but there were a lot of out of focus images . . .

I guess a faster (focussing) lens would help . . . or better panning . . . sometimes difficult to tell . . .

Granted, it was probably baltic and dull and it may not be easy to do better . . .

I had a bad day at a recent autotest, 2G of pics and only about 10 I liked which is a spectacularly pathetic ratio . . . but then I was also trying to beat the competition ;-)

Fd

>> Edited by fergusd on Saturday 11th March 23:50

[bernie_eccle]

FD
That is exactly my own thoughts. Admittedly these are low res images of the originals which doesn't help but even the oiginals seem "soft". On the day I was aware of this and did try to alter the shutter speed, but ended up with cars which looked like they were at a standstill.
Could have been a combination between technique - poor panning - and poor light. As you may know, access at the circuit is a bit restricted and it was difficult to get he light behind me.
Any thoughts if it is worth upgrading or do you think a bit more practice is required first?
Stewart
P.S.
With the upcomming trip to the US, it might even be possible to pick up a bargain there.

[fergusd]

Well, I got a good deal on a 10.5 semi-fish in colorado recently, defo worth considering buying over there . . .

Not really sure . . . I'm kinda guessing panning tachnique but I know how difficult it can be when it's totally dull, flat and cold . . .

I'm sure we'll see each other at KH this year, welcome to try my 80-200/2.8AFS which I find a superb lens, but that's not going to help you for the US trip . . .

I expect to be competing more than photographing this year which is a shame, but them's the choices you make . . . must train the g/f to take some decent pics ;-)

Fd

[Fishy Dave]

Take a look at some of the videos on www.trackaction-online.co.uk, their are some videos from this day (filmed by the guys in the black Clios)

[fergusd]

Fishy Dave said:

Take a look at some of the videos on www.trackaction-online.co.uk, their are some videos from this day (filmed by the guys in the black Clios)

They need a faster camera car . . . ;-)

Fd

[Fishy Dave]

LOL

[te51cle]

There's no exif information so don't know what shutter speed you were using. Was it windy that day ? Slight softness could be caused by wind blowing you about - I'm tall and skinny so I get blown about a lot and am all too familiar with the problem ! Monopod or tripod would help.

[simpo two]

My 4p - I suspect any softness in the photos is caused by the fact you're shooting a moving target; AF tracking isn't rally up to it IMHO. Filter>Sharpen works wonders for web pix.

I think you did pretty well; I don't think you'll get a lens that does anything significantly better for £250-300.

[bernie_eccle]

te51cle said:

There's no exif information so don't know what shutter speed you were using. Was it windy that day ? Slight softness could be caused by wind blowing you about - I'm tall and skinny so I get blown about a lot and am all too familiar with the problem ! Monopod or tripod would help.

I am a bit of a twig and it was a wee bit windy but not too bad. Can panning work with a monopod or tripod?
I have edited the original post to add some of the exif data. They were all shot at 200 ISO. As you can see, I was experimenting with shutter speed to find out what was working and what wasn't. Also I think I have used unsharp mask on most of these.

[stoneyV6]

i think there pretty good photos to be honest suprised you managed to stand the cold
long enough to take any photos as it was about -3 all day. if you have anymore of any
of the black clios would love to see them.

[bernie_eccle]

stoneyV6 said:

i think there pretty good photos to be honest suprised you managed to stand the cold long enough to take any photos as it was about -3 all day. if you have anymore of any of the black clios would love to see them.

Thanks. I do have a few of the clio's. Here are a few of them. On the day I took 320+ pics so do have more if there is a paticular car you are lookong for.

[GetCarter]

Stewart

A slight upgrade would be the ED 70-300 - which is better than the G, and wouldn't cost much (It's the one I've used on about 40 track days).

The thing is, as a 'one off lens - and I can't be bothered to change it throughout the day' (IMHO) the 70 - 300 is about perfect for a track day - unless you want arty close ups) so your options are limited.

I missed what camera body you were using - did you tweak the settings to sharpen? (I always find that helps).

Also where you stand in relation to the light reflected off the cars is the one thing that seemed to make a big difference to my shots (and one others never seemed to consider)

Best bit of advice... make sure it's sunny ... life is so much easier!

[lowpro]

stoneyV6 said:

i think there pretty good photos to be honest suprised you managed to stand the cold long enough to take any photos as it was about -3 all day. if you have anymore of any of the black clios would love to see them.

I agree, they all look spot on to me and the soft focus in the background of the action shots just adds to the impression of speed. If you have any more of the black Clio's in action I'd love to see them, especially LNN.

PS: Would you mind if I included a couple in the East Fortune section on my web site. www.trackaction-online.co.uk

[stoneyV6]

Thats great bernie_eccle thanks very much mine is the very salty looking V6 with the
bullet cam mounted to the roof a very handy piece of kit that i got from fishy dave at
www.fastfilms.co.uk/

>> Edited by stoneyV6 on Sunday 12th March 15:45

[V6GTO]

GetCarter said:

Best bit of advice... make sure it's sunny ... life is so much easier!

Couldn't agree more...28C here today

Martin.

[LongQ]

GetCarter said:

Also where you stand in relation to the light reflected off the cars is the one thing that seemed to make a big difference to my shots (and one others never seemed to consider) Best bit of advice... make sure it's sunny ... life is so much easier!

Another vote for these two being probably THE most important factors to a good hit rate. Unless you are very unlucky your upcoming trip should offer the benefit of very usable light levels. On the other hand watch out for burnout.

Getting positioning for optimum reflected light can certainly be a problem almost anywhere but there are clear benefits when the choice of position is available to you.

If you are using a rather long lens the potential for soft focus - auto or manual - is great unless you use a high shutter speed, and even then to get REALLY sharp seems to require some luck as well as forethought.

For example I have 2 consecutive shots taken on 800ISO 35mm stock last weekend. Sunny conditions around late morning. Both taken from approximately the same location and with the same settings as far as I can tell. 70-210mm lens at or near the 210 end and shutter priority set to either 500th or 1000th - not sure which. The scans of the negatives both look very adequately sharp at normal viewing size. The cars are the same size in the negatives - about 2/3rd of the total width and positioned centrally. But one is MUCH sharper than the other if you enlarge the view. My guess is that the very sharp one used a slighly higher f number as the main subject is a white car whereas the second shot is of a medium blue and white car. That and position relative to focal plane and perhaps a lucky optimum pan motoin have made a lot of difference.

But if you want truly consistent across almost all settings pin sharp performance nothing is likely to beat a professional quality lens. The only problem is being able to afford them and to have an argument to put to yourself that you can fully justify the investment. Oh, and the fact they tend to have a lot of glass in them and weigh a ton.

Track or general tarmac work is typically going to look somewhat like the vehicle is standing still. However on a rally stage with plenty of gravel or mud even if you freeze the movement of the wheels is is still quite unlikely that you will freeze all of the flying gravel!

Personally I don't mind the unblurred look though I do also enjoy the sharp car/blurred wheels shots. Quite how people achieve that on demand at 1/30th sec I don't know but they have my admiration.

[bernie_eccle]

GetCarter said:

Stewart A slight upgrade would be the ED 70-300 - which is better than the G, and wouldn't cost much (It's the one I've used on about 40 track days). The thing is, as a 'one off lens - and I can't be bothered to change it throughout the day' (IMHO) the 70 - 300 is about perfect for a track day - unless you want arty close ups) so your options are limited. I missed what camera body you were using - did you tweak the settings to sharpen? (I always find that helps). Also where you stand in relation to the light reflected off the cars is the one thing that seemed to make a big difference to my shots (and one others never seemed to consider) Best bit of advice... make sure it's sunny ... life is so much easier!

Thanks for the info Steve. I am using a Nikon D70. I was forgetting that when I bought my current lens, that it was the cheaper G and that the ED was available. I like the range of the 70-300 so perhaps the ED would give me that psychological boost.
Not sure which setting you are referring to, but "Optimize Image" is set to normal. I do notice however that there is a setting of "Sharper" or "Vivid" available.
Light was always going to be a problem at EF as access is fairly restricted and as a result most of the day was spent with the sun in front of me.

lowpro said:

If you have any more of the black Clio's in action I'd love to see them, especially LNN. PS: Would you mind if I included a couple in the East Fortune section on my web site. www.trackaction-online.co.uk

I'll have a look for some more clio pics and post them. No probs if you want to include them on your website as long as they aren't posted for sale or the like

stoneyV6 said:

That’s great bernie_eccle thanks very much mine is the very salty looking V6

Steve, a nice looking car which seemed to lend it's self to B&W

[GetCarter]

V6GTO said:

GetCarter said: Best bit of advice... make sure it's sunny ... life is so much easier! Couldn't agree more...28C here today Martin.

Git. Blizzards here.

[lowpro]

Cheers Bernie, I'll make sure you get the credit for them.