HELP. Diesel in my Elise....

[RHY 11S]

OK. This is incredibly embarassing but I force fed my Mk2 111S (which I bought only 1 week ago) about a teaspoonful of BP Ultimate DIESEL(!). WHY have they made the Ultimate Diesel and Petrol pumps look so BLOODY similar!? Having only filled her up once before my initial thoughts were that I was just having problems getting the pump in (yes, I know, that's because Diesel pumps are intentionally larger). When I couldn't get it in I thought I would try and squeeze out a little fuel to see if that would open up the flap. It seemingly didn't and I just got a load of diesel over me instead. Infact it was such a small amount it didn't even register on the pump display! BUT after driving a mile home, leaving her overnight, and then driving half a mile in the morning, the Malfunction Indicator Lamp came on!! Has anyone ever heard of any stupidity like this before and can a teaspoonful of diesel really have damaged the catalyctic converter (as the owner's manual suggests that using leaded fuel will)??. The only other explanation I can think is that this is just sheer coincidence and there is something wrong with my exhaust as it does sound suspiciously loud and throaty (even though I paid a garage to do a 52 point check before I bought it - LAST WEEK!). Once you have finished shaking your head at my stupidity does anyone have any advice?. Please help me as I've been up since 6.30 this morning worrying about this.

[piooly]

I have no idea. Good luck though ! cant imagine that amount of fuel would do that, did you top up the rest of the tank then with unleaded after to dilute it?

[falcemob]

I wasn't aware that derv has any lead in it so I don't think that would bugger your cat up and modern diesel engines have catalytic converters now, don't they? Providing you filled up with petrol after I can't see it doing any harm. Maybe your warning light is related to something else.

[lawrence5]

Threads on SELOC about it..... may be some use. registration is free.

http://forums.seloc.org/viewthread.ph

http://forums.seloc.org/viewthread.ph

<<Such a tiny amount of diesel is really no issue at all, just like a comparable amount of petrol in a diesel car is absolutely no problem.

You can actually mix quite a bit before it would start to have problems running on the stuff. Would start smoking a bit before that happens though

Bye, Arno.>>

It should still burn - advice seems to be keep it topped up to dilute it as much as possible. Keep running it and get as many miles in as you can but filling up loads as amount was small.

If all goes tits up take it back to your dealer but accidently forget what you did. I'd say the mil light is not connected. Mine's come on loads lately - but if you go the honest route dealer can read the code to check.

Sounds like you should be ok though...

[RHY 11S]

Thanks for the advice everyone! The logical part of my brain (yes, I do have one, although seemingly underdeveloped) is telling me that such a tiny amount would be diluted by the full tank of petrol that I then put in. But I'm still concerned about the Malfunction light. Does anyone think that the On-Board Diagnostics picked up the diesel fumes as they passed by the sensors and that's what triggered the light? Or is that too tenuous a theory?? I've read that the light will not go out until the car has done three consecutive journeys where the OBD 'passes' the fumes, so maybe I'll try that...
Alternatively, then it could just be a problem elsewhere - should a 11S really be so loud that colleagues can hear through double glazing the sound of me reversing into my space at work?? Could I have a hole in the exhaust of a 30k miles car that had a B service 5 months/4000 miles ago?? Thanks for any ideas...

[lawrence5]

Depends on what exhaust you're running. Mine is loud - B & C with k & n induction. MIL light comes on if you have a de-cat pipe so it's worth getting to the bottom of it. May be a blown exhaust....

MIL light should reset after 4 restarts if on constantly. If flashing pull over and call a tow truck. Does she seem to be running ok ??

[simonk]

Easy mistake to make at some BP garages. I got to the couldn't fit it in stage the other week. 3 flavours available at the pump; unleaded, diesel and ultimate. Never occurred to me the ultimate might also be diesel!

Simon

[shangani]

BTW - there is no advantage to using the higher octane fuel on a k series engines car - doesn't have a knock sensor.

[RHY 11S]

Good News. MIL light went off after three trips, so it must have ben a very quick trigger that set it off. Does anyone think there's any substance to my theory that a tiny bit of diesel passing through the system may have been the cause?? I'd heard the sensors aren't that sensitive... Anyway, I'm gonna get the OBD 'interrogated' today at my local dealer so hopefully that will give me a better idea as to what caused it to be triggered. I'm just pleased the light's gone off!
I'm glad I'm not the only one that's been caught out by the similarity between Ultimate Diesel and Petrol!
Which leads me to my next question...AM I WASTING MY MONEY PAYING FOR ULTIMATE?? I'm doing it because previous onwer said he noticed a difference inperformance when he didn't. Are all K-series Elises the same in this regard?
Anyway, had a great day's driving yesterday and performance was fantastic as ever - I've had the Lotus a week now and I've fallen in love. UNBELIEVABLE FUN!

[GTRene]

RHY 11S said:

Good News. Which leads me to my next question...AM I WASTING MY MONEY PAYING FOR ULTIMATE?? I'm doing it because previous onwer said he noticed a difference inperformance when he didn't. Are all K-series Elises the same in this regard?

The BP Ultimate is better! even for older cars or engines, knock censor or not...
It burns better/faster/cleaner, so that means better economy, more power, better for the engine! all ofcorse by a little margin, but at the end of a year cheaper too!

Its simple, when you drive lets say 20.000km a year doing 1L every 10km and cheap fuel is 1.25euro it cost you 2.500,-euro a year(cheap fuel less power en les clean for engine)

When you drive the same 20.000km with Ultimate doing 1L every 10,5km(or better!) and that fuel is 1.30(5 cents more) it cost you 2.476,-euro! so cheaper and better! and faster!
I took 5 cents more for(example) the Ultimate(here its 4cents more) and only 0,5km more per liter wich also can be a easely 1km more when you take 1km more and 4 cents its only 2.345,-euro! so per liter a bit more, but cheaper in the end!
GTRene

>> Edited by GTRene on Monday 13th March 10:16

[lawrence5]

A bit of a waste without a knock sensor.

I run a tank of optimax or ultimate every now and then to clean the system through and I think that's advisable. Also avoid supermarket petrol (5% ethanol) and pick a busy station as fuel goes off.....

..... keep on enjoying

[markizok]

I have always used Optimax, is ultimate the better one?

[SpeedyDave]

GTRene said:

RHY 11S said: Good News. Which leads me to my next question...AM I WASTING MY MONEY PAYING FOR ULTIMATE?? I'm doing it because previous onwer said he noticed a difference inperformance when he didn't. Are all K-series Elises the same in this regard? The BP Ultimate is better! even for older cars or engines, knock censor or not... It burns better/faster/cleaner, so that means better economy, more power, better for the engine! all ofcorse by a little margin, but at the end of a year cheaper too! Its simple, when you drive lets say 20.000km a year doing 1L every 10km and cheap fuel is 1.25euro it cost you 2.500,-euro a year(cheap fuel less power en les clean for engine) When you drive the same 20.000km with Ultimate doing 1L every 10,5km(or better!) and that fuel is 1.30(5 cents more) it cost you 2.476,-euro! so cheaper and better! and faster! I took 5 cents more for(example) the Ultimate(here its 4cents more) and only 0,5km more per liter wich also can be a easely 1km more when you take 1km more and 4 cents its only 2.345,-euro! so per liter a bit more, but cheaper in the end! GTRene >> Edited by GTRene on Monday 13th March 10:16

You're claiming 5% better fuel economy from Ultimate (and better performace at the same time). Based on what?

There is just no science behind this.
The variables such as refill level, fill level (due to varying amounts of air trapped in tank), driving environement & style (even drive mood from day to day), cargo weight, tyre pressures etc etc have the potential in combination to sway milage far far more than this claimed 5 percent. So much so as to render anecdotal evidence such as "I filled up with Ultimate/Optimax and did X miles more on a tank completely worthless.

Show me *any* real scientific proof of measurably better milage from premium files in a normal K series. There is just no reason for it to be so.

The fact is higher octane premium fuels typically have the same (or sometimes slightly lower!) calorific values than regular fuel. Without sufficient compression ratio and/or ignition advance you get no more power and no better fuel economy. You just get the same bang in the combustion chamber as before.

Its just placebo effect born out of the fact that people aren't doing real objective testing. Plenty of people read horoscopes every day and find a way to see their experiences as fitting the predictions too.

As pointed out above, the premium fuels typically do have better detergents etc so probably worth running a tankful every now and then to help keep things clean. That said, a well used k doesn't typically doesn't have all *that* much crap built up inside.

If you're just blatting around or crusing down the motorways the regular 95 octane is fine. I typically use Optimax when really flogging it hard on track as an insurance against knock. It shouldn't be needed and won't get me any more power or economy so its partly a security blanket but I figure that under extreme stress and high temps its maybe not a bad idea.

[hbaumhardt]

SpeedyDave said:

I typically use Optimax when really flogging it hard on track as an insurance against knock.

>Ding< Regular stuff in for road driving and Ultimate/Optimax/Whatnot only on track to avoid detonation. Of course most tracks just sell regular U/L on site and CBA to drive offsite so end up filling what that anyway.

[GTRene]

I based my info on my personal car! and also my girlfriends car! both BMW my car the Z3 M coupe S54 did first 6.6km every liter all the time! and after BP Ultimate and now the Shell optimax? it does around 7.1km every liter tank after tank! when I go same roads... ofcorse its no K-series(luckely for this heavy? car) but its based on facts from first hand! ofcorse the BMW 118(2.0) from my girlfriend did 2km more per liter but that car is more fuel economic from the start...
and ofcorse when a fuel burns better the power is stronger that way more fuel economic because you don't need to put the accelarator that far for the same power, but when you do you go a bit faster! it realy does try testing 0 to 200km and time that with your cheap bad fuel...then drive one tank special fuel BP or Shell and then another tank..and then try it again with that fuel, you will see a difference! believe me.
GTRene

>> Edited by GTRene on Monday 13th March 18:56

[shangani]

Your beemer has a knock sensor. The lotus technicians say use 95 octane as the k series engine cannot adjust to higher octane. Psychologically a hurricane induction kit makes the car feel faster. Measured power gains with induction - 1-3 bhp. Same story with higher octane fuel. Unless the engine is modded, it will not help. Maybe now and again for cleaning purposes.

[GTRene]

shangani said:

Your beemer has a knock sensor. The lotus technicians say use 95 octane as the k series engine cannot adjust to higher octane. Psychologically a hurricane induction kit makes the car feel faster. Measured power gains with induction - 1-3 bhp. Same story with higher octane fuel. Unless the engine is modded, it will not help. Maybe now and again for cleaning purposes.

hm...so its fine for the yota, but not for the k-series? not even the 16v? also older cars and engines did not have a knock sensor, but they need high octane 98 and lead...
and normaly 98 is a bit better then 95...hm...

GTRene

[GTRene]

they talk a lot on that...its indeed set for ron 95...also there is a thread on this long time ago, see here...one says no powergane, one says yes??very confusing, anyway, it works on my car but thats not a k-series

www.petrolheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?f=15&h=0&t=18361

GTRene

[SpeedyDave]

GTRene said:

I based my info on my personal car! and also my girlfriends car! both BMW my car the Z3 M coupe S54 did first 6.6km every liter all the time! and after BP Ultimate and now the Shell optimax? it does around 7.1km every liter tank after tank! when I go same roads... ofcorse its no K-series(luckely for this heavy? car) but its based on facts from first hand! ofcorse the BMW 118(2.0) from my girlfriend did 2km more per liter but that car is more fuel economic from the start... and ofcorse when a fuel burns better the power is stronger that way more fuel economic because you don't need to put the accelarator that far for the same power, but when you do you go a bit faster! it realy does try testing 0 to 200km and time that with your cheap bad fuel...then drive one tank special fuel BP or Shell and then another tank..and then try it again with that fuel, you will see a difference! believe me. GTRene >> Edited by GTRene on Monday 13th March 18:56

GTRene, the original poster has an S2 111S, the K series is tuned for 95. The Yota has a knock sensor and was tuned & set up for 98. I expect the same is likley true for the other cars you mention. Actually they don't so much do better with 98+, they perform as designed with it and perform slightly below par when forced to 'detune on the fly' for poorer fuel. You have to be careful taking experience with one situation and translating that into advice for someone in a different situation. K series owners should NOT waste their money on anything more than 95 except for the special occasional uses mentioned or if they are modifying for higher compression etc.

You also have to be careful when stating as factual the kind of figures you give above as, for all the reasons I pointed out, there is a *lot* of room for innaccuracies. I'm not saying that various non K cars won't see improved performance/economy - they will, but the reading on the pump at different times & conditions is a very rubbery way of quantifying it.

Statements like "when a fuel burns better the power is stronger" are not well founded & really slipping into pseudo-science. The calorific value is what determines the energy (& therefor power) available from the fuel. For a given engine the completeness of the burn is determined primeraly by things like how well the fuel is atomised & mixed with air in the incomming charge, not by a small difference in octane or formulation. That mixing is determined by things like injector position, tumble & swirl generated by the shape & angle of the ports to the cylinder etc.

For a 95 tuned car the push on the piston will be just the same for either fuel because the *calorific value* is much the same.

Go and fill two K series up with 95 / 98 and run your 0-100 tests, you will not be able to notice a difference. Basically whatever car you have you should use fuel as rated by the manufacturers spec - no surprise there.

BTW, where in NL are you? I'm currently in Tilburg.

Dave

[GTRene]

Hi Dave, the 0 to 100 will not see much different, but the 0 to 200km will do a bit! and ofcorse I can only speak of my personal experience, and that from close friends! and ofcorse what I hear from others, that makes it more reliable.
And you don't have to take my word for all things, but only take my words with you in mind so that you can see better? two now more then one
Sadly I can't tranlate it all in English the way you can, cos I only can write the simple words down
I live in Almelo by the way, you can see that in my profile? click on my name...and you life on the other end of BPM country Holland
Hasve fun
GTRene