Monday 13th March 2006

1m could lose licence in a flash

Gruesome stats hide obsession with compliance not safety, says roads campaign

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We watch these, not the road

According to a recent YouGov poll, almost one million drivers are now on six or more licence points. With some speeding offences attracting six licence points they are just one flash away from a six-month ban under the totting-up procedure.

The poll found that 16 per cent of drivers (5.4 million drivers) have points on their driving licences, with 2.2 per cent on six points (750,000 drivers) and 0.48 per cent of drivers (160,000) on 9 licence points.

Founder of the Safe Speed road safety campaign Paul Smith said: "Drivers frequently write to me complaining about the dangers of driving with nine licence points. They tell me that every van at the road side becomes a threat and the speedometer becomes an obsession.

"They live in dread of missing a speed limit sign. This means that they feel forced to concentrate on speed limit compliance at the expense of concentrating on the road ahead. It simply isn't safe.

"We're are rapidly becoming a nation of drivers obsessed, not with safety, but with mere legal compliance. In the dash for speed camera cash, we have forgotten that the true goal is safety not legality. While it is extremely important that we do not drive too fast, the speed limit cannot tell us what 'too fast' really is.

"Road safety is a matter of psychology because crashes only happen when road users make mistakes. Putting drivers under too much pressure is bad psychology that makes crashes more likely. No wonder road deaths have failed to fall in the speed camera era. As far as road death reduction is concerned, we're now over 1,000 lives per year behind schedule. I am absolutely certain that bad road safety policy, based on speed cameras, is to blame."

• www.safespeed.org.uk

[GTRene]

Founder of the Safe Speed road safety campaign Paul Smith said: "Drivers frequently write to me complaining about the dangers of driving with nine licence points. They tell me that every van at the road side becomes a threat and the speedometer becomes an obsession.

"They live in dread of missing a speed limit sign. This means that they feel forced to concentrate on speed limit compliance at the expense of concentrating on the road ahead. It simply isn't safe.

"We're are rapidly becoming a nation of drivers obsessed, not with safety, but with mere legal compliance. In the dash for speed camera cash, we have forgotten that the true goal is safety not legality. While it is extremely important that we do not drive too fast, the speed limit cannot tell us what 'too fast' really is.

"Road safety is a matter of psychology because crashes only happen when road users make mistakes. Putting drivers under too much pressure is bad psychology that makes crashes more likely. No wonder road deaths have failed to fall in the speed camera era. As far as road death reduction is concerned, we're now over 1,000 lives per year behind schedule. I am absolutely certain that bad road safety policy, based on speed cameras, is to blame."

I totally agree! safety ok, but use your head, adapt to the circoumstances, you always have some nutters who won't(dangerous drivers or drunk) but don't blame us all...for that! even when you limit all the speedo's elektronic(futere thing?) you always have some nutters who brake things, or people going dead in accidents on the streets?, I like fast driving too but only safety first for others and for me ofcorse...then adapt to the circoumstances and road and car and your experience.
Drive safe but have some fun! watch the road and not your speedo, but sadly we have to do that, or there is a BIG chance to loose your licence! aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh where is the relaxed driving where is the joy we needed to live through the week...a bit fun when driving you car chalanging the roads...where are those times? every day I think of laserguns and gatso's and other stuff, is that life? no thats almost prison! no fun means stress at work or at home...and thats not good! we need some fun.
GTRene

>> Edited by GTRene on Monday 13th March 11:16

[aston67]

Good

All these people should stick together and start putting pressure on the "government" and on the opposition to change this ludicrous system

A67

[havoc]

Preaching to the choir here Paul.

Where's this press-release going to? And how much attention are you getting? (Column inches and/or airtime?)

[apache]

There will be some clever statistic massaging required soon to hide the rise in accidents this will cause

[mrandy]

im on 9 points do i get a prize now ?

I agree with the above comments you do become more interested in camera fixation and not on the road in general,the speed van comment is so so true.

[S1XXR]

A compelling and articulate response...as we've come to expect from Paul.

[g0kyk]

I agree totaly that the obsession with having to constantly look at the speed indicator and search for cameras has generated a dangerous situation. On lots of roads 20mph is dangerous on others when traffic and conditions permit 4 or 5 Mph over the limit is perfectly safe and you can drive in a relaxed manner giving full concentration to the road ahead, behind and pederstrians.

What worries me are the comments of an earlier poster,
"I like fast driving too".
"Drive safe but have some fun".
"a bit fun when driving you car chalanging the roads"
"no fun means stress at work or at home"

I'm sorry, but a car is a means of transport to get you from place to place in manner that is safe to you, your passengers and other road users. It may be a bit boring but the roads no place for fun and aggressive driving, hence the proliferation of speed cameras that penalise even the safe driver.
Ray.

[Einion Yrth]

So long as the emphasis is on 'safe' I can't see any problem with 'fun'. Aggressive driving is not safe, or IMHO fun. If I were to feel aggressive towards other road user, I sure as hell would not be enjoying it.

[BliarOut]

g0kyk said:

I agree totaly that the obsession with having to constantly look at the speed indicator and search for cameras has generated a dangerous situation. On lots of roads 20mph is dangerous on others when traffic and conditions permit 4 or 5 Mph over the limit is perfectly safe and you can drive in a relaxed manner giving full concentration to the road ahead, behind and pederstrians. What worries me are the comments of an earlier poster, "I like fast driving too". "Drive safe but have some fun". "a bit fun when driving you car chalanging the roads" "no fun means stress at work or at home" I'm sorry, but a car is a means of transport to get you from place to place in manner that is safe to you, your passengers and other road users. It may be a bit boring but the roads no place for fun and aggressive driving, hence the proliferation of speed cameras that penalise even the safe driver. Ray.

My insurance covers me for SD&P, the P stands for pleasure

[plucas1]

At the risk of getting a virtual shoeing...

Getting caught once is unlucky (and increasingly inevitable), twice is at best *really* unlucky. But, three times - are you not simply taking the proverbial? To then to complain that you *now* have to look at your speedo more than the road and it's making you a worse driver is frankly laughable.

Discuss

[countryboy]

plucas1 said:

At the risk of getting a virtual shoeing... Getting caught once is unlucky (and increasingly inevitable), twice is at best *really* unlucky. But, three times - are you not simply taking the proverbial? To then to complain that you *now* have to look at your speedo more than the road and it's making you a worse driver is frankly laughable. Discuss

Most people get caught speed because upon entering a camera zone they forget to check that their speedometer isn't pointing above a number on a stick.

I'm a student so a £60 fine is bad enough for me. And trust me when you get to nine points, come back and tell us that you are still as safe as you were when you were on no points because you WILL be more worried about the speed limit and cameras.

[Fire99]

In my opinion this is just another example of the Governments policy being based on facts and figures and not people..

Look at this posibility...

The roads are overcrowded and they don't know how to fix it.

Here they can make the road penalties tougher, ban a million or so drivers and get them off the road. And the tougher the driving laws and the more sneaky and draconian they are about enforcing them the more people who get banned. And more people off the roads.

They can reduce the number of motorists enough to stop the country becoming entirely gridlocked and can do it all in the name of 'Safety' so no-one can complain without the Safety Spin-Doctors making you appear a self centred criminal.

It all appears to be Facts and Figures with Blair's mob.. People and people's happiness (and enjoyment) doesn't count..

It disgusts me for one!

[james_j]

apache said:

There will be some clever statistic massaging required soon to hide the rise in accidents this will cause

No doubt.

[zevans]

mrandy said:

im on 9 points do i get a prize now ? I agree with the above comments you do become more interested in camera fixation and not on the road in general,the speed van comment is so so true.

I find it has helped management of hazards, for me. I'm much more careful about where I choose to exceed the limit. I've found that being hyper-aware of the speed limit and of potential hiding places for camera vans and unmarked cars has made me much more aware of roadside hazards generally. (Note I am not saying I drove with my eyes shut before!)

I might add this is because I was pulled by an unmarked car and given some points and a talking to, rather than having the book thrown at me as they could have done... and equally had I had lost my license through totting up I'd probably have become a recidivist.

Does anyone know what the average rate of points per mile is? I may be on 9 points, but that is over 120,000+ miles, which is 12 years' motoring for Mr Average.

[antispeed]

Fire99 said:

The roads are overcrowded and they don't know how to fix it. Here they can make the road penalties tougher, ban a million or so drivers and get them off the road. And the tougher the driving laws and the more sneaky and draconian they are about enforcing them the more people who get banned. And more people off the roads. They can reduce the number of motorists enough to stop the country becoming entirely gridlocked and can do it all in the name of 'Safety' so no-one can complain without the Safety Spin-Doctors making you appear a self centred criminal. It disgusts me for one!

The knock on effects of such policy you have so elequently summed up is,
1:- No more tourists, as the touring car driver gets it in the neck to, you would avoid such a country if you have bad memories of it , AND you would tell your friends to!
2:- Some of the unfortunates will be forced to use PUBIC TRANSPORT( ) which would keel over at such demands for space , so less cars / vans /lorries = more buses
3: those, like myself , will lose our jobs, so swells the unemployment register to 4 million + unemployed / unemployable, as there is not enough jobs in manufacturing now, and there is even less jobs that do not require driving as a regular part of employment. (and getting to said employment if you got a job)
4:- food and comodity prices will SOAR because there will not be enough delivery drivers to deliver goods / food ect,(there is already a big shortage of qualified LGV1 and 2 drivers,and even now white van man is starting to see wages increase due to less such drivers with a clean licence being available. fuelling runaway inflation,
5:- all vehicle sales will plummet, as there will be a surfeit of good quality second hand ones around going dirt cheap.
6:-the more drivers banned = more drivers without tax insurance mot (why bother to even attempt to get at least insurance or mot, if you get stopped and you transport is confiscated and crushed?) (and look how much money I can save by not paying out £700 a year, my mate down toot pub sells me a replacement for £25 that would mean to spend £700 on replacements cars, I would have to be VERY UNLUCKY!at 1 every 2 weeks!
7: just wait til blair gets the idea to tax oxygen!

[vipers]

plucas1 said:

At the risk of getting a virtual shoeing... Getting caught once is unlucky (and increasingly inevitable), twice is at best *really* unlucky. But, three times - are you not simply taking the proverbial? To then to complain that you *now* have to look at your speedo more than the road and it's making you a worse driver is frankly laughable. Discuss

The article also said "They live in dread of missing a speed limit sign"? why?. why should competent drivers miss a roadsign, arnt they big enough. Whilst I do not agree that all speed limits are realistic, especially on motorways, I personally have no trouble identifying speed limits. Am I alone in saying I have been driving for over 30 years, urban, motorways, you name I have driven on it, and never had a ticket for exceeding the speed limit, as you say once could be unlucky, but two or three times......

Just like to add that I dont agree with drivers being caught for say 5 mph over, its difficult to drive exactly at 60 or 70 I know, Take care out there lads.



>> Edited by vipers on Monday 13th March 17:11

[egomeister]

Fire99 said:

It all appears to be Facts and Figures with Blair's mob.. People and people's happiness (and enjoyment) doesn't count..

Almost..... I probably wouldn't have used the word facts though!

[mrandy]

plucas1 said:

At the risk of getting a virtual shoeing... Getting caught once is unlucky (and increasingly inevitable), twice is at best *really* unlucky. But, three times - are you not simply taking the proverbial? To then to complain that you *now* have to look at your speedo more than the road and it's making you a worse driver is frankly laughable. Discuss

please feel my size 9 ,i d0 40k + a year and i have to admit scameras have slowed me down but i will not accept that being caught on three occasions over a three year period doing 34-6 in a 30 makes me unsafe on the roads i see far far worse when i am out and about.

[safespeed]

havoc said:

Preaching to the choir here Paul. Where's this press-release going to? And how much attention are you getting? (Column inches and/or airtime?)

The PRs go to a well maintained list of about 850. The response is amazing given the resources. You can see a partial media log on the Safe Speed forums: www.safespeed.org.uk/forum/viewforum.php?f=16

I could do a great deal more with better resources. Hint, hint. If you would like to support this work visit: www.safespeed.org.uk/join.html

The appeal last year was great, and effectively paid for 2005 operations. Thanks to all who contributed.

[sgt^roc]

miss a speed sign and there is no mercy, rob, stab, rape some one and they try their hardest to get them out of nick early