Discussion
hi,
i currently own an early elise s1 wich i very much enjoy and im thinking of trading it in for an s1 160. Was wondering if anyone has done this? and does it warrent the 3-4k it will cost me?
any advice would be greatly apprciated james...
>> Edited by jimbob350ifhc on Tuesday 14th March 18:35
i currently own an early elise s1 wich i very much enjoy and im thinking of trading it in for an s1 160. Was wondering if anyone has done this? and does it warrent the 3-4k it will cost me?
any advice would be greatly apprciated james...
>> Edited by jimbob350ifhc on Tuesday 14th March 18:35
When I was looking for an elise I didnt know much about them but after driving a standard S1, I wanted it. It was about £10 from the lotus dealer. The problem was parked next to it was a black sport 160. It looked so good in comparison. It sits so much lower, and with the banked up spoiler, wider wheels, cool alloys and fancy seats, I just had to have it. The main problem was that it was nearly double the cost, but after a quick spin I was sold.
The main benifit is how much more the engine revs, its just so addictive. If I was in your position I would probably look at upgrading the existing S1. If you spent £5,000 on it, you could get a 170 bhp PTP engine upgrade. Nitron suspension, eliseparts discs and good pads, new exhaust, sports cat, new alloys and tyres, sport 160 spoiler. If you really wanted to splash out, I would get the 240 R style seat, they look fantastic.
With that setup you would have a faster car with brand quality new suspension etc.... It would be spot on and look the part. Obviously this would affect resale value as its not a proper sport 160, but hey atleast you wont loose money on selling your current S1.
Its worth costing out as your old S1 would be virtually a new car !
Should you change your current car, the only way you will know is to try a sport 160. If you can get to Bournemouth I'd take you out in mine.
The main benifit is how much more the engine revs, its just so addictive. If I was in your position I would probably look at upgrading the existing S1. If you spent £5,000 on it, you could get a 170 bhp PTP engine upgrade. Nitron suspension, eliseparts discs and good pads, new exhaust, sports cat, new alloys and tyres, sport 160 spoiler. If you really wanted to splash out, I would get the 240 R style seat, they look fantastic.
With that setup you would have a faster car with brand quality new suspension etc.... It would be spot on and look the part. Obviously this would affect resale value as its not a proper sport 160, but hey atleast you wont loose money on selling your current S1.
Its worth costing out as your old S1 would be virtually a new car !
Should you change your current car, the only way you will know is to try a sport 160. If you can get to Bournemouth I'd take you out in mine.
no the s1 is going its time for a change. Plus Its always better i feel to have the model then try to acheive it plus my s1 has 55k on it so it probaly worth 9k on the right day so ive been looking around and there are some 160s now appearing for about 13-15k with less miles and newer. Plus i do fancie the real thing. But really apprciate the advice.
Was at silverstone in jan and a 160 was making me look very slow....
Was at silverstone in jan and a 160 was making me look very slow....
I had a standardish S1 (plus sports exhaust and hurricane) unitl last year when it got written off. By then I'd had it about 16 months and was already thinking about needing more power.
When it went I made the decision that it would be a 111S, Sport 135 or a Sport 160 if I was to stick with the S1, I also considered S2 135R's and the Exige S2.
I got a pax in a Sport 160, then tried an Exige and didn't like it. Then tried a couple of Sport 160's and was hooked. I didn't even bother with anything else.
The lumpiness low down I love, it's a proper sports car, smells like one, goes like one, turns heads like one. They're rare, loud, proud and very special. The top end power is fantastic, picking up from about 2.5k the power piles on as the cams kick in at 4k and the revs fly round to 7k+ at which point you'll be hitting warp speed and laughing your ass off.
Vs an S1 or S2 111S there's little in it, and the 111R only catches up as it hits the 2nd cam and if you back off around 100+
If you've got the cash, do it. There's loads around at great money. Read up on elises.co.uk and check on the variants (there are a few) and then get out and try some. You'll love it.
When it went I made the decision that it would be a 111S, Sport 135 or a Sport 160 if I was to stick with the S1, I also considered S2 135R's and the Exige S2.
I got a pax in a Sport 160, then tried an Exige and didn't like it. Then tried a couple of Sport 160's and was hooked. I didn't even bother with anything else.
The lumpiness low down I love, it's a proper sports car, smells like one, goes like one, turns heads like one. They're rare, loud, proud and very special. The top end power is fantastic, picking up from about 2.5k the power piles on as the cams kick in at 4k and the revs fly round to 7k+ at which point you'll be hitting warp speed and laughing your ass off.
Vs an S1 or S2 111S there's little in it, and the 111R only catches up as it hits the 2nd cam and if you back off around 100+
If you've got the cash, do it. There's loads around at great money. Read up on elises.co.uk and check on the variants (there are a few) and then get out and try some. You'll love it.
Have to agree with what has been said here. Test drove several sports cars and new an Elise was for me. But could not decide on normal or 111S. While waiting the Sport 160 came along, test drove it and it was a clear choice. I don't think it is any faster than a 111S really, but it's was lower, looked a little different and sounded excellent. The sound was something that had been bothering me.
For what it's worth, it would be a lot easier to buy a sport 160 than upgrade your own car.
I am thinking about getting another one myself.
For what it's worth, it would be a lot easier to buy a sport 160 than upgrade your own car.
I am thinking about getting another one myself.
I had an S1 Elise and moved, via a brief flirtation with a Griffith, to an S160.
The S160 is great and as others have said, it thrives on revs. You've got to thrash it to enjoy it, though, so it depends on usage and driving style. To be honest, if you do a lot of road mileage and very little or no track mileage, I'd go for the 111S...the S160- really only shines when you are able to use all the revs, all the time.
The S160 is great and as others have said, it thrives on revs. You've got to thrash it to enjoy it, though, so it depends on usage and driving style. To be honest, if you do a lot of road mileage and very little or no track mileage, I'd go for the 111S...the S160- really only shines when you are able to use all the revs, all the time.
I test drove both 111S and Sport 160 and had I allowed my heart to rule my head it would have been the 160 all the way. But...
I must echo what previous posts have said, it did require a fair bit of commitment from the right foot just to stop it stalling on slower roundabouts.
Looks wise there is no comparison. The nose scraping the ground, zero clearance between the arches and the beautiful alloys and the up-swept spoiler. All this adds up to possibly the best looking elise in history IMO.
On the advice of the very honest dealer, I did however end up with the cheaper 111S. I was a Lotus virgin and he felt it was probably more suited to me given that I was coming from a Honda Civic!
I must echo what previous posts have said, it did require a fair bit of commitment from the right foot just to stop it stalling on slower roundabouts.
Looks wise there is no comparison. The nose scraping the ground, zero clearance between the arches and the beautiful alloys and the up-swept spoiler. All this adds up to possibly the best looking elise in history IMO.
On the advice of the very honest dealer, I did however end up with the cheaper 111S. I was a Lotus virgin and he felt it was probably more suited to me given that I was coming from a Honda Civic!
Yeah, I have verniers pulleys fitted to my 160 and re-timed. It like a different car ! No jumpyness or lump. Drives virtually like a normal car. You dont lose any of the sport 160 goodness, just makes it far better in traffic and at slow speeds. A must for any sport 160 !
Lakeside Engineering in Woking did mine. Best to have it done when your cam belt needs changing as they have to take it off anyway. Cost me £500 to have the pulleys, full re-time, new cam belt and alternator belt, takes a fair few house to time the engine but its worth it. It didnt effect speed, just drivablity.
Lakeside Engineering in Woking did mine. Best to have it done when your cam belt needs changing as they have to take it off anyway. Cost me £500 to have the pulleys, full re-time, new cam belt and alternator belt, takes a fair few house to time the engine but its worth it. It didnt effect speed, just drivablity.
Lumpy idle and jerkiness at low revs are curable by a combination of vernier pulleys to allow correct cam timing and a mappable ECU to sort the fuelling map (the car was viewed as a run-out special by Lotus, so they did a half arsed job on it themselves).
What can't be sorted by cam timing and fuelling is lack of low-end torque. The S160 engine is basically an Old Skool tuned engine - porting and hot cams give the power. Without variable valve timing, breathing low down is going to be relatively poor, no matter what you do, thanks to the cam profile. You can make it run smoothly and cleanly at low revs, but it still won't pull the skin off a rice pudding below 3,500rpm and doesn't start to really get going until 5K.
If you are used to old fashioned, low-capacity tuned engines, you may love it (I am, and do!), but if you are used to big, torquey engines, modern diesels or forced induction, it will feel distinctly gutless until you get it up on cam.
As Piooly says, you can drive around these characteristics by using a lower gear and more revs than usual, but you do feel a bit of a d1ckhead screaming around in 1st gear in town centre traffic, just to keep pace with the turbodiesel taxis!
For this reason, I'd suggest that while the S160 is fanstastic as a track car or on clear, country roads, a 111S is a better compromise for all-round driving conditions.
What can't be sorted by cam timing and fuelling is lack of low-end torque. The S160 engine is basically an Old Skool tuned engine - porting and hot cams give the power. Without variable valve timing, breathing low down is going to be relatively poor, no matter what you do, thanks to the cam profile. You can make it run smoothly and cleanly at low revs, but it still won't pull the skin off a rice pudding below 3,500rpm and doesn't start to really get going until 5K.
If you are used to old fashioned, low-capacity tuned engines, you may love it (I am, and do!), but if you are used to big, torquey engines, modern diesels or forced induction, it will feel distinctly gutless until you get it up on cam.
As Piooly says, you can drive around these characteristics by using a lower gear and more revs than usual, but you do feel a bit of a d1ckhead screaming around in 1st gear in town centre traffic, just to keep pace with the turbodiesel taxis!
For this reason, I'd suggest that while the S160 is fanstastic as a track car or on clear, country roads, a 111S is a better compromise for all-round driving conditions.
Some are a right pain, others aren't. You can't really tar all 160's with the same brush. Mine has "character" and is lumpy but I CBA with all the verniers etc. All you end up doing is moving the power band around.
You learn to drive around it and if it's stalling at roundabouts etc. then either you're not driving it with sufficient mechanical sympathy or it needs a trip to the doc's for some attention.
I was thinking of doing all sorts of things to mine until I had an epiphany at North Weald earlier this year with the BoLOC's. It's a bloody quick car and really doesn't need a huge amount of money to be spent on it. Driver skill is the key.
Around Brands Hatch last month it held it's own easily vs. an S2 111S and a 111R. In truth there is very little difference between the cars or the S1 111S when driven above walking pace. The torque comes in quicker on the S1 mainly because of the CR gearbox, which is a negative if you do any motorway cruising and you mod with Exhaust & Induction as it's noisier.
Pro's and Con's with each. Then you buy the 160 because it's WAY cooler
160's are for the proper hairy chested men amongst us
You learn to drive around it and if it's stalling at roundabouts etc. then either you're not driving it with sufficient mechanical sympathy or it needs a trip to the doc's for some attention.
I was thinking of doing all sorts of things to mine until I had an epiphany at North Weald earlier this year with the BoLOC's. It's a bloody quick car and really doesn't need a huge amount of money to be spent on it. Driver skill is the key.
Around Brands Hatch last month it held it's own easily vs. an S2 111S and a 111R. In truth there is very little difference between the cars or the S1 111S when driven above walking pace. The torque comes in quicker on the S1 mainly because of the CR gearbox, which is a negative if you do any motorway cruising and you mod with Exhaust & Induction as it's noisier.
Pro's and Con's with each. Then you buy the 160 because it's WAY cooler
160's are for the proper hairy chested men amongst us
rfoster said:
Will be interested to see the difference between my super 160 and the sport 160 tomorrow. I do a lot of town driving!
Richard, do you have a TD time yet for tomorrow. Offer to meet in TW early afternoon for a blat in mine still stands. You're welcome to have a drive if you behave yourself
Thanks Tim, TD at 11.30, my mate is driving their S1 111s at the same time then we're off to ESMC in Uckfield so he can try the standard S1 they have there as well before he decides which to go for - then off to Amgmering to collect bits from his old car (that he wrote off) - so I may have to take up your generous offer another time! Much appreciate it though. Will keep your mobile number on file for blackmail purposes.
...thinking ahead to the test drive tomorrow I'm a little concerned regarding the comments of teh lack of low-down torque - the majority of my driving is done in town & traffic so I'm kinda hoping I won't be disappointed.
...thinking ahead to the test drive tomorrow I'm a little concerned regarding the comments of teh lack of low-down torque - the majority of my driving is done in town & traffic so I'm kinda hoping I won't be disappointed.
rfoster said:
...thinking ahead to the test drive tomorrow I'm a little concerned regarding the comments of the lack of low-down torque - the majority of my driving is done in town & traffic so I'm kinda hoping I won't be disappointed.
To be honest, I think you'd be better off looking at a 111S. It loses little in performance against the S160, has the same free-revving nature (and sounds as good when fitted with a sports exhaust), but is more driveable in normal road conditions.
I know that there will always be the temptation to go for the 'ultimate' if you can afford it, but in this case the S160 might not do you any favours.
Another factor that may be worth bearing in mind that doesn't seem to have been raised on this thread so far is servicing. S160 owners don't tend to shout too loudly about the fact that recommended service intervals are 6,000 miles rather than the 9,000 miles of the standard car and 111S. It's easy to dismiss this with a blase 'I can afford it and I don't do that many miles, anyway', but you might not feel the same when you need to sign the cheque for a 'C' service at 36K instead of 54K miles...at the very least, bear it in mind when looking at any S160 for sale, since many are now approaching 'C' service mileage, so you can use it as a bargaining tool.
Just read this thread ... and for some reason I decided to dig out an old copy of "Car" magazine that I found in my study recently - (extract from Car January 1999)
Here's the blurb in "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly" section:
Cue every road-test cliche you've ever read. Go-Kart handling, corners on rails, road-going race car, blah, blah, blah. But it's all true and so much more. The aluminium-chassis Elise is a driver's car, pure and simple. It responds to every driver input, refuses to get upset by mid-corner undulations and, to cap it all, has a saloon car ride. Power is provided by Rover's K-series which sits behind your shoulders. Is there anything to moan about? Getting in and out is a palaver, and the hood is fiddly. Big deal"
Good luck with your decision ...
Here's the blurb in "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly" section:
Cue every road-test cliche you've ever read. Go-Kart handling, corners on rails, road-going race car, blah, blah, blah. But it's all true and so much more. The aluminium-chassis Elise is a driver's car, pure and simple. It responds to every driver input, refuses to get upset by mid-corner undulations and, to cap it all, has a saloon car ride. Power is provided by Rover's K-series which sits behind your shoulders. Is there anything to moan about? Getting in and out is a palaver, and the hood is fiddly. Big deal"
Good luck with your decision ...
Well, had a good drive in the car. It looked awesome in the...erm...metal. Really fantastic. It seems to sit a fair bit lower than mine and looks very aggressive. The Victory alloys really fnished the car off.
But, I have to say it wasn't for me at all. Compared to my car the lack of low-down torque is disappointing, you really have to be committed to get the most out of the car. As Ben the sales mgr there said, 'You have to drive it like you stole it!' Have to say that the engine wasn't on good form, some squeals coming from it that needed sorting (which they would have fixed for me in fairness.) Didn't really get much of a chance to get it above 5k rpm either. The seat has more padding than mine but I found the backrest a tad uncomfortable and in compariosn to mine I felt like was was sitting on the car rather than in it.
No doubt at all that it's a great car, but it is quite track influenced and that's not me at all. I'll be sticking with mine for now.
On the plus side my friend boughts their Calypso Red S1 111S. What a beauty!
But, I have to say it wasn't for me at all. Compared to my car the lack of low-down torque is disappointing, you really have to be committed to get the most out of the car. As Ben the sales mgr there said, 'You have to drive it like you stole it!' Have to say that the engine wasn't on good form, some squeals coming from it that needed sorting (which they would have fixed for me in fairness.) Didn't really get much of a chance to get it above 5k rpm either. The seat has more padding than mine but I found the backrest a tad uncomfortable and in compariosn to mine I felt like was was sitting on the car rather than in it.
No doubt at all that it's a great car, but it is quite track influenced and that's not me at all. I'll be sticking with mine for now.
On the plus side my friend boughts their Calypso Red S1 111S. What a beauty!
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