You've been conscripted. Do it or dodge it?
Discussion
I guess it somewhat depends - is it going to happen with a UN Mandate or not?
If it is just UK going it alone & acting without due process, and without showing more evidence of new danger in Iraq than has already been shown, then I'd be tempted to try & dodge it. (I can see the danger in North Korea)
I think that dodging the draft is only going to be possible for people that are "Welfare scroats" at the moment. At least their benefits can be stopped
With UN Mandate, sure, I think that I'd try & get in as quick as possible, to have a chance of getting a position that isn't just cannon fodder.
OTOH I would imagine that at age 37, I may well be too old to join anyway...
If it is just UK going it alone & acting without due process, and without showing more evidence of new danger in Iraq than has already been shown, then I'd be tempted to try & dodge it. (I can see the danger in North Korea)
I think that dodging the draft is only going to be possible for people that are "Welfare scroats" at the moment. At least their benefits can be stopped
With UN Mandate, sure, I think that I'd try & get in as quick as possible, to have a chance of getting a position that isn't just cannon fodder.
OTOH I would imagine that at age 37, I may well be too old to join anyway...
Why would I go? Get shot at by blokes with whom I've no personal argument and could very probably get along with over a beer / soured goats milk. I'd tell them to shove it, this isn't 1939 any more, the level of information available to us plebs is far better than its ever been and I don't see the need to wage war just because thats what George Bush wants.
Lets face it if our esteemed leaders were the ones putting their skin on the line, things would be sorted out far more amicably and within a week.
Matt
Lets face it if our esteemed leaders were the ones putting their skin on the line, things would be sorted out far more amicably and within a week.
Matt
In my earlier days I wouldn't hesitate and I don't think anyone should either, however now days you'd have to take me kicking and screaming.
Wars are created by politicians and sorted by the military, the current Chief of the Defence Staff is more than the measure of the politicians at their own game IMHO so I don’t think that anything will be done too hastily.
You just have to put some faith in the elected leaders of the day, if you have no faith in them (does anyone with this shower?) then it's time to change them, as this is exactly the kind of situation where they should earn their money.
I can't remember the exact figures for this, but it goes something like in the 20th century there was on average 1 war per year somewhere in the world, of these only x (4?) was predicted.
It should be another factor when you consider what politicians are to represent you as they will have to make decisions of this importance, but not necessarily of this magnitude, with more regularity than you will ever know.
Harry
PS apoligise for the disjiointed rambling above, but I think you know what I mean (harry
)
Wars are created by politicians and sorted by the military, the current Chief of the Defence Staff is more than the measure of the politicians at their own game IMHO so I don’t think that anything will be done too hastily.
You just have to put some faith in the elected leaders of the day, if you have no faith in them (does anyone with this shower?) then it's time to change them, as this is exactly the kind of situation where they should earn their money.
I can't remember the exact figures for this, but it goes something like in the 20th century there was on average 1 war per year somewhere in the world, of these only x (4?) was predicted.
It should be another factor when you consider what politicians are to represent you as they will have to make decisions of this importance, but not necessarily of this magnitude, with more regularity than you will ever know.
Harry
PS apoligise for the disjiointed rambling above, but I think you know what I mean (harry
)hmmm....if it was a WW2 situation (the country had a threat of invasion) then yes, i would.
But (imho of course!) the inevitable war with Iraq is one we should not be getting involved in....and war with Korea is not one we should be getting involved in either....so in these pointless conflicts, no.
Bloody yanks - they're just using the excuse of terrorism as a means of going to war with anyone they want to
>> Edited by Super_Marv on Tuesday 31st December 21:22
But (imho of course!) the inevitable war with Iraq is one we should not be getting involved in....and war with Korea is not one we should be getting involved in either....so in these pointless conflicts, no.
Bloody yanks - they're just using the excuse of terrorism as a means of going to war with anyone they want to
>> Edited by Super_Marv on Tuesday 31st December 21:22
deltaf said: The thing bout that point of view Marv is that youd be waiting until that country that was strong enough to invade.Then itd be too dam late to do anything about it.
Surely better to act before that happens?
Remember Poland?
Thats the same as twating some guy in a pub because you think he's getting a bit lairy, when hes not actually causing you any greif at all, or more to the point, because your big mate thinks the guy needs a slap. Until the guy gets up and comes for me, let him do what he likes, if he hassles someone else let them sort it out.
deltaf said:
Remember Poland?
But Germany was different to Iraq. It had a massive re armamant (sp god, can't spell at the best of times) leading up to its various invasions. Huge experiance in war at that time. Tried and tested its tactics in Spain. And Germany had a world domination plan.
Get your point though.
Simon : to expand on your analogy - if the lairy guy gets a slap (or a word) early days then it might stop him getting more and more confident until he glasses someone.
I've obviously took your analogy to an extreme but I think it's relevant to the Iraqi situation.
Someone tell me this : there are lots of people saying "just because George Bush says so.." - someone explain to me what he has to gain? Do you not think the guy wants to preserve American lives, not spend $10billion and not risk his political career on a pointless war? It seems lots of people are happy in the notion that it's just the jumped-up Yanks. Bury your heads if you like but start looking at the facts rather than just taking the easy choice of blaming the Americans.
I agree with Deltaf and I would sign up if I had to but I'd rather not thanks
Dan
PS I'm not American - just think that there needs to be some balance added to the discussion.
I've obviously took your analogy to an extreme but I think it's relevant to the Iraqi situation.
Someone tell me this : there are lots of people saying "just because George Bush says so.." - someone explain to me what he has to gain? Do you not think the guy wants to preserve American lives, not spend $10billion and not risk his political career on a pointless war? It seems lots of people are happy in the notion that it's just the jumped-up Yanks. Bury your heads if you like but start looking at the facts rather than just taking the easy choice of blaming the Americans.
I agree with Deltaf and I would sign up if I had to but I'd rather not thanks
Dan
PS I'm not American - just think that there needs to be some balance added to the discussion.
on our NHS 
The difference is that the bloke in the pub cant development chemical or nuclear weapons.
what would you do if the iraq's bombed (Chemical or Biological) the town where you wife and kids are, and you were working away. and you were working away. when you returned from your place of work and you saw you wife and kids in horific pain and suffering, you will be the one saying why did not this government do womething to stop this dictator from making these kinds of weapons etc
These dictator leaders SH the north Korean Wanker need to be overthrow and a democracy put in there place. then they may be a chance of some stability in this world.
Also we went to War with Iraq before we did not use nuclear weapons, Sadam used biological weapons and a lot of the Ex armed forces are suffering the results of these.
Carzee if i a situation liked that happened i would not mind as at least i would be able to get a job what i am qualified in (Weapons and Guidance systems Engineering.)
HAve a good new year
Steve
Thats the same as twating some guy in a pub because you think he's getting a bit lairy, when hes not actually causing you any greif at all, or more to the point, because your big mate thinks the guy needs a slap. Until the guy gets up and comes for me, let him do what he likes, if he hassles someone else let them sort it out.
what would you do if the iraq's bombed (Chemical or Biological) the town where you wife and kids are, and you were working away. and you were working away. when you returned from your place of work and you saw you wife and kids in horific pain and suffering, you will be the one saying why did not this government do womething to stop this dictator from making these kinds of weapons etc
These dictator leaders SH the north Korean Wanker need to be overthrow and a democracy put in there place. then they may be a chance of some stability in this world.
Also we went to War with Iraq before we did not use nuclear weapons, Sadam used biological weapons and a lot of the Ex armed forces are suffering the results of these.
Carzee if i a situation liked that happened i would not mind as at least i would be able to get a job what i am qualified in (Weapons and Guidance systems Engineering.)
HAve a good new year
Steve
Thats the same as twating some guy in a pub because you think he's getting a bit lairy, when hes not actually causing you any greif at all, or more to the point, because your big mate thinks the guy needs a slap. Until the guy gets up and comes for me, let him do what he likes, if he hassles someone else let them sort it out.
well i have done my 12 years for queen and country already and have the falklands under my belt .
i thought we were just going for terrorists ,from what i have seen iraq has not threatened anyone outside its own borders for ten years so why attack them ,you would catch more terrorist cells by bombing london and birmingham as we are the training ground for most off them. And as for korea if we started on them we would be flattened.
i thought we were just going for terrorists ,from what i have seen iraq has not threatened anyone outside its own borders for ten years so why attack them ,you would catch more terrorist cells by bombing london and birmingham as we are the training ground for most off them. And as for korea if we started on them we would be flattened.
Quote
Also we went to War with Iraq before we did not use nuclear weapons, Sadam used biological weapons and a lot of the Ex armed forces are suffering the results of these.
Steve
Thats the same as twating some guy in a pub because you think he's getting a bit lairy, when hes not actually causing you any greif at all, or more to the point, because your big mate thinks the guy needs a slap. Until the guy gets up and comes for me, let him do what he likes, if he hassles someone else let them sort it out.
That point is debatable! Some think that the problems assoicated with the Gulf War were caused by the use, by the Allied forces, of Depleated Uranium tipped shells. Although I belive the official line is still that there is no problem.
Edited to add: As I see it, our greatest biological threat will come from Terrorist attack, and the government are letting more and more of these people into our country every day!
>> Edited by Simonelite501 on Wednesday 1st January 10:02
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