Friend wants Nova GTE to go as quick as for £300
Discussion
yes, take everything out he doesn't need, i.e:
that banging ice system,
all seats except his own,
dashboard,
parcel shelf,
bumpers,
spare wheel etc...
even go as far as removing the central steering wheel boss and indicator side repeaters...
though removing every third bolt that holds the chassis together may be a little extreme.
that banging ice system,
all seats except his own,
dashboard,
parcel shelf,
bumpers,
spare wheel etc...
even go as far as removing the central steering wheel boss and indicator side repeaters...
though removing every third bolt that holds the chassis together may be a little extreme.
No problem! Give me the £300 and I'll take it to Beachy Head and push it off! Terminal velocity for 10 secs or so should produce far more speed than a Vauxhall should ever go, and the sudden stop at the bottom WILL improve the overall looks! 
P.S. Although I know nothing of the Nova, 120bhp seems an awful lot to get from a 1600cc motor, even with an aftermarket exhaust and air filter! My Lotus 2000cc 16 valve all alloy twin cam, only puts out 160bhp! If the information on the Nova is correct, its quite impressive!
>> Edited by Simonelite501 on Wednesday 1st January 14:45
P.S. Although I know nothing of the Nova, 120bhp seems an awful lot to get from a 1600cc motor, even with an aftermarket exhaust and air filter! My Lotus 2000cc 16 valve all alloy twin cam, only puts out 160bhp! If the information on the Nova is correct, its quite impressive!
>> Edited by Simonelite501 on Wednesday 1st January 14:45
Simonelite501 said: No problem! Give me the £300 and I'll take it to Beachy Head and push it off! Terminal velocity for 10 secs or so should produce far more speed than a Vauxhall should ever go, and the sudden stop at the bottom WILL improve the overall looks!
P.S. Although I know nothing of the Nova, 120bhp seems an awful lot to get from a 1600cc motor, even with an aftermarket exhaust and air filter! My Lotus 2000cc 16 valve all alloy twin cam, only puts out 160bhp! If the information on the Nova is correct, its quite impressive!
>> Edited by Simonelite501 on Wednesday 1st January 14:45
I did wonder about that but the 1.6 GSi has 100bhp! So I would assume the GTE has a bit more as standard to give it 120bhp with those basic mods.
For £300 I think a remap of the ecu would help so that it can take advantage of the current mods. (These old Novas do have ECUs, right?
) -Darren
I used to work in a rolling road dyno, and every so often we'd have an owners day.
We had a Vauxhall owners day.
The GSi novas, 1.6 -16v used to make bang on 120 bhp mostly.
This was corrected flywheel hp.
To get more out of one of these is not gonna be easy.
The standard head is very good and theres not a lot to be gained from extra porting work.
Cams were pretty much as good too, and we hardly ever saw an increase in power or torque over the standard items.
For your 300 bucks, if it was me, id spend it on a nitrous injection kit.
Ok, ya cant have it on all the time, but hey, think of it like this; if you had to hold full throttle for say 20 seconds, how fast dya think yad be goin?
Very!
Ok ya have to get it refilled every so often, but small price to pay for an instant 30 or 50 bhp increase.
Only other option id consider would be the Calibra turbo 2.0 litre engine, but thats gonna cost way more than 300.
Something to think about, hope this helps.
Least i dont take the piss outa poor little novas.....much
We had a Vauxhall owners day.
The GSi novas, 1.6 -16v used to make bang on 120 bhp mostly.
This was corrected flywheel hp.
To get more out of one of these is not gonna be easy.
The standard head is very good and theres not a lot to be gained from extra porting work.
Cams were pretty much as good too, and we hardly ever saw an increase in power or torque over the standard items.
For your 300 bucks, if it was me, id spend it on a nitrous injection kit.
Ok, ya cant have it on all the time, but hey, think of it like this; if you had to hold full throttle for say 20 seconds, how fast dya think yad be goin?
Very!
Ok ya have to get it refilled every so often, but small price to pay for an instant 30 or 50 bhp increase.
Only other option id consider would be the Calibra turbo 2.0 litre engine, but thats gonna cost way more than 300.
Something to think about, hope this helps.
Least i dont take the piss outa poor little novas.....much
N2O is the bolt on boys dream isn't it! Well, mabye not quite. To withstand the massive forces applied by an instant extra 50bhp, the engine has to be set up to cope. At the very least, forged pistons should be fitted whilst you have the engine out for a full rebuild, oops, we seem to have gone over budget dramatically already!
I beg to differ with your analysis, Simonlite.
Any engine built anywhere by anybody(OEM) can withstand the forces incurred by the use of say a 30bhp increase!!!
The problems arise if the revs of the engine are raised, or if the boost level is grossly too large at low revs.
The only likely problem to occur would possibly be the clutch!!
You just need a good stock engine as a starting point.
In actual fact its possible to DOUBLE the power output of the engine without having to do all that much to it. How?
Doubling the output of the engine dosent increase the power loadings by double.
In fact peak combustion pressure would rise by a mere 20% with double the mixture forced into the chamber.
A turbo and nitrous work by lengthening the time available for combustion pressures push on the piston, mechanical loadings are not a real problem, unless the engine strength is already marginal.
Any engine built anywhere by anybody(OEM) can withstand the forces incurred by the use of say a 30bhp increase!!!
The problems arise if the revs of the engine are raised, or if the boost level is grossly too large at low revs.
The only likely problem to occur would possibly be the clutch!!
You just need a good stock engine as a starting point.
In actual fact its possible to DOUBLE the power output of the engine without having to do all that much to it. How?
Doubling the output of the engine dosent increase the power loadings by double.
In fact peak combustion pressure would rise by a mere 20% with double the mixture forced into the chamber.
A turbo and nitrous work by lengthening the time available for combustion pressures push on the piston, mechanical loadings are not a real problem, unless the engine strength is already marginal.
Not stricly true, although I can see where your coming from. Nitrous Oxide injection, Turbo/supercharging all rely on the fact that more oxygen can be compressed and fed into the same physical space, therefore allowing more fuel to be burnt and thus creating a bigger bang. This bigger bang has the effect of producing more power by pushing the pistons down harder and therefore spinning the crankshaft more quickly. The downsides to this is the extra forces which due to Newtons laws of physics create equal and opposite forces which exert themselves on the surrounding enviorment. To combat these forces, the equipment used in the surrrounding enviroment has to be capable of withstanding the extra force. Head gaskets, cylinder head bolts, valve seats, piston ringss and crowns all have to be in A1 condition, or a catasrophic failure can and will be on the cards. The bigger bang also produces more heat, and therefore detenation becomes more of a problem, hence the need for forged pistons as these are far superior to cast OEM items. Crankshafts are also in the firing line and benifit will be gained by using a forged crank, cross bolted, (Small block Chevy's suffer from block flexing as do Rover V8's not sure about smaller 4 pot mills, not my area really) All transmission and driveline components need to be looked at too, as the increase in power will have an effect on traction, and this will have to be addressed or the extra power will be wasted. The more traction you have the harder time your drive train will have, so an uprated clutch, maybe some sort of performance box, or re-mapping of an Auto with a shift kit(always had Autos with NOS),and certainly an LSD. How wise a decent shot of gas in a FWD vehicle would actually be is a mute point, as weight transfer of the line will put the rear tyres under load and leavbe the front end light, so leaving the front tyres spinning quite nicely. Another problem with the FWD senario is tyre width. To make the most of a good dose of gas, the front tyres would be best if they were wide enough to provide a good footprint, but that would be a real problem on a road car, making the steering real heavy. All this is just my point of veiw of course, but my brother is running a 1970 Ford Mustang fastback with a 351 Cleveland which uses a Nitrous Oxide Systems Twin Bar Plate system, the first stage fires in an extra 25bhp off the line and then at a predetermied rpm the second bar bangs off another 75bhp shot, best ET- 12.3 terminal speed 136mph. The motor went through its OEM pistons very rapidly.
I think youre slightly missing the point here.
Its not a BIGGER bang, but a LONGER bang that produces that extra get up and go.
Its the available pressure on the piston as it goes down the bore thats giving that extra torque, but not necessarily more of it.
Just more of it at THAT point in combustion than if you wernt using the forced/nitrous induction methods.
As i said, doubling the mixture volume into the cylinder, will only increase PEAK cylinder pressures by around 20%, easily within the capabilities of most engines.
Go the nitrous route, just keep your fuel/air at the correct stoichemetric ratio, or else yes, you will have trouble.
Its not a BIGGER bang, but a LONGER bang that produces that extra get up and go.
Its the available pressure on the piston as it goes down the bore thats giving that extra torque, but not necessarily more of it.
Just more of it at THAT point in combustion than if you wernt using the forced/nitrous induction methods.
As i said, doubling the mixture volume into the cylinder, will only increase PEAK cylinder pressures by around 20%, easily within the capabilities of most engines.
Go the nitrous route, just keep your fuel/air at the correct stoichemetric ratio, or else yes, you will have trouble.
i think its the correct ratio between air/fuel mixture so you get complete burn of all fuel.Too much air and the metalwork in the combustion chamber starts to be eaten away, too little and the fuel is not burnt in the combustion chamber
Thats from memory so if anybody wants to correct me please do
Thats from memory so if anybody wants to correct me please do
Its not a BIGGER bang, but a LONGER bang that produces that extra get up and go.
Its the available pressure on the piston as it goes down the bore thats giving that extra torque, but not necessarily more of it.
Just more of it at THAT point in combustion than if you wernt using the forced/nitrous induction methods.
Sorry chap, you lost me slightly there. More Oxygen + more Fuel = bigger bang. This bigger bang will of course last longer, but it lasts longer due to the fact that its bigger. Nitrous Oxide is effective only because it contains 36% Oxygen by weight as against 23.6% Oxygen by weight in the air, cramming the extra 12% of Oxygen into the combustion chamber allows more fuel to be burnt in the same space, providing a bigger, more violent bang, which will last longer. A better route for this guy with the Nova would surely be to hold onto his £300 until he can afford a larger capacity mill, as N2O's destructive forces will cost him dearly in the long term, not only from component failure, but also from an insurance point of veiw. N2O really should be restricted to the race track where it belongs.
Editted to say that the technically correct fuel/air ratio is not really the one you want. By richening the mixture, i.e adding a little more fuel than you actually need, you can reduce the combustion tempretures and thus reduce the likelyhood of damage without lossing very much power.
>> Edited by Simonelite501 on Wednesday 1st January 22:24
Aha!
Thats not correct.
That larger air/fuel charge does indeed contain more energy, but, and this is clincher, it burns at a constant rate.
It dosent burn faster or more violently than if it was a smaller amount of the same stuff at the same ratio.
This is why we have spark advance.
If fuel/air in a petrol engine burned faster when compressed more, thered be no need for a spark advance mechanism.
Now were getting bogged down (no pun) in technicalities.
The guy's only got 300 squids, he cant get anywhere near 30 bhp from that lump by any other means with that sum.
300 will just bout sort him a starter kit to get him "up and running" (pun intended).
Edited to say, i know bout the richer mixture you alluded to!
>> Edited by deltaf on Wednesday 1st January 22:52
Thats not correct.
That larger air/fuel charge does indeed contain more energy, but, and this is clincher, it burns at a constant rate.
It dosent burn faster or more violently than if it was a smaller amount of the same stuff at the same ratio.
This is why we have spark advance.
If fuel/air in a petrol engine burned faster when compressed more, thered be no need for a spark advance mechanism.
Now were getting bogged down (no pun) in technicalities.
The guy's only got 300 squids, he cant get anywhere near 30 bhp from that lump by any other means with that sum.
300 will just bout sort him a starter kit to get him "up and running" (pun intended).
Edited to say, i know bout the richer mixture you alluded to!
>> Edited by deltaf on Wednesday 1st January 22:52
Going down a different line.He would go faster if he upgraded his brakes?OK his speed wont be higher but he could maintain it for longer
I was always told that if you increased engine power you should check you have enough stopping power.Also once mods have been done be sure to inform insurance company or they wont pay out for accident claims
I was always told that if you increased engine power you should check you have enough stopping power.Also once mods have been done be sure to inform insurance company or they wont pay out for accident claims
deltaf said: Aha!
Thats not correct.
That larger air/fuel charge does indeed contain more energy, but, and this is clincher, it burns at a constant rate.
It dosent burn faster or more violently than if it was a smaller amount of the same stuff at the same ratio.
This is why we have spark advance.
If fuel/air in a petrol engine burned faster when compressed more, thered be no need for a spark advance mechanism.
Now were getting bogged down (no pun) in technicalities.
The guy's only got 300 squids, he cant get anywhere near 30 bhp from that lump by any other means with that sum.
300 will just bout sort him a starter kit to get him "up and running" (pun intended).
Edited to say, i know bout the richer mixture you alluded to!
>> Edited by deltaf on Wednesday 1st January 22:52
Accepted that the mixture will burn at a constant rate, but the more fuel/oxygen you have in a confined space, and they dont come much more confined than a 400cc combustion chamber, the bigger bang you will get. Anyway we appear to be going around in circles, and I've got to go to work tomorrow, so I'm off
Suffice to say that if the guy wants to go fast, buy a fast car, and leave the Nova's in the supermarket car park where they belong! 
Happy New Year, Simon. 
I can see most of the points here about his GTE being at 120 BHP - see it like this.....
I drive a 1.9 205 Gti running 133 BHP tested. He has had his tested and it came up 119 at the flywheel.
My problem is that I cant shake that bloody Nova off my arse until we hit corners. He even takes the p*ss out of Astra GTE's and has a bigger top end than me. I believe its a standard gearbox and 1.6 8v lump but believe me - it already goes damn quick.
So question one. WOuld a ported and polished head help? Or what else can any of you think of for £300 which will give him BHP gain? Please help cus when I uprate my exhaust, filter and fuel pump - I am going to be lonely again, and we have so much fun racing each other. Thanks in advance!
I drive a 1.9 205 Gti running 133 BHP tested. He has had his tested and it came up 119 at the flywheel.
My problem is that I cant shake that bloody Nova off my arse until we hit corners. He even takes the p*ss out of Astra GTE's and has a bigger top end than me. I believe its a standard gearbox and 1.6 8v lump but believe me - it already goes damn quick.
So question one. WOuld a ported and polished head help? Or what else can any of you think of for £300 which will give him BHP gain? Please help cus when I uprate my exhaust, filter and fuel pump - I am going to be lonely again, and we have so much fun racing each other. Thanks in advance!
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