How to scare a 996 driver...
Discussion
Not a usual "Haha I toasted a 911 driver" story Im afraid.
Bro runs a 996Cab...he lives in Cali so its allowed, he isnt gay :P ... which outside of the pistonhead "how big is your willy" perennial c0cksize contest going on, can generally be considered a reasonably fast motor. I think we all get hung up on arguing about fractions of seconds between the sub 4secs and 4-5 secs 0-60 dash stats, etc, between highish end TVRs, Porkas, Fezzas etc and what diffs we are running. We sometimes forget how things can feel to the 99% of the rest of the world who arent in the high end fun stuff.
Anyway, he came over and following the usual banter of my family asked for a blat out in it. Fortunately it was before the snow came and dryish and we have some fairly straight sections of road near us. I tootled about and eventually got upto temp and decided to treat him to full chat in 2nd. Scared and shocked the hell out of him at the violence and acceleration from first 4k rpm and then again when the next wave hit at 6k rpm.
Havent got to shock him and get one over on him all that often over the yrs, so it amused me
It also serves as a reminded how much massively faster these machines are over even other relatively fast motors. Bro is a pretty sober guy and although a fully paid up petrol geek, isnt into the willy size contest things, a 911 is a 911 to him, so he also runs a 2.5Turbo Saab as the family long haul transport. With this in mind he was always fairly impressed with the build quality of the 'Gris also, the trim quality and the ride.
So a thumbs up all round.
Bro runs a 996Cab...he lives in Cali so its allowed, he isnt gay :P ... which outside of the pistonhead "how big is your willy" perennial c0cksize contest going on, can generally be considered a reasonably fast motor. I think we all get hung up on arguing about fractions of seconds between the sub 4secs and 4-5 secs 0-60 dash stats, etc, between highish end TVRs, Porkas, Fezzas etc and what diffs we are running. We sometimes forget how things can feel to the 99% of the rest of the world who arent in the high end fun stuff.
Anyway, he came over and following the usual banter of my family asked for a blat out in it. Fortunately it was before the snow came and dryish and we have some fairly straight sections of road near us. I tootled about and eventually got upto temp and decided to treat him to full chat in 2nd. Scared and shocked the hell out of him at the violence and acceleration from first 4k rpm and then again when the next wave hit at 6k rpm.
Havent got to shock him and get one over on him all that often over the yrs, so it amused me
It also serves as a reminded how much massively faster these machines are over even other relatively fast motors. Bro is a pretty sober guy and although a fully paid up petrol geek, isnt into the willy size contest things, a 911 is a 911 to him, so he also runs a 2.5Turbo Saab as the family long haul transport. With this in mind he was always fairly impressed with the build quality of the 'Gris also, the trim quality and the ride. So a thumbs up all round.
Even in my lowly T350, while on a 'showing the car to someone' stylee drive I enjoy accelerating midly in second, letting them think thats it, and then nailing it to the redline from around 4k revs on the clock as they think I@m about to change into third. Usually elicits a 'f**k me' type comment if they're not used to proper fast cars. My Uncle screamed out loud like a kid (well he though an MGB V8 was quick).
TVRs are fun
TVRs are fun
targarama said:
Even in my lowly T350, while on a 'showing the car to someone' stylee drive I enjoy accelerating midly in second, letting them think thats it, and then nailing it to the redline from around 4k revs on the clock as they think I@m about to change into third. Usually elicits a 'f**k me' type comment if they're not used to proper fast cars. My Uncle screamed out loud like a kid (well he though an MGB V8 was quick).
TVRs are fun
LOL, I did that with my dad, going up hill in 2nd! Great fun
chris watton said:
Even in my lowly T350, while on a 'showing the car to someone' stylee drive I enjoy accelerating midly in second, letting them think thats it, and then nailing it to the redline from around 4k revs on the clock as they think I@m about to change into third. Usually elicits a 'f**k me' type comment if they're not used to proper fast cars. My Uncle screamed out loud like a kid (well he though an MGB V8 was quick).
TVRs are fun
LOL, I did that with my dad, going up hill in 2nd! Great fun
My Dad got his baptism at Cadwell Park ... he was rather quiet
Staight line grunt i agree the TVR will win. Now try it on a track, if both of you have the same talent bag a Porche GT2,GT3 will eat a TVR alive. If i remember rightly the neon sign above the dealership in London said " TVR a road car you can track" or similar to that i dont think it said " TVR a road car you can drag" in its proper enviroment the lack of driver aids and being only two wheel drive im afaid your exit speed on corners will let you down. Of course this is only my opinion and dont want to upset the apple cart and i am sure i would have done the same if i was in your shoes.
According to Evo mag, less than 1% time diff around Bedford track between our T350's and a GT3....and the GT3 would probably have been on softer Michelin Pilot rubber. Don't want to start another 'bragging contest' though, and the Gt3's my favourite 911 
Ok, it's just a TV show, and there may be more than one 'stig' but the Top Gear lap times offer a relatively 'independant' view on the GT3 V Sag debate:-
1 Pagani Zonda F 1.18.4
2 Maserati MC12 1.18.9
3 Ferrari Enzo 1.19.0
4 Ariel Atom 1.19.5
5 Porsche Carrera GT 1.19.8
6 Ascari KZ1 1.20.7
7 Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren 1.20.9
8 Ford GT 1.21.9
9 Porsche GT3 RS 1.22.3
10 Ferrari 360 CS 1.22.3
11 Murcielago 1.23.7
12 Zonda 1.23.8
13 Koenigsegg 1.23.9
14 Sagaris 1.24.6
15 Tuscan 1.24.8
16 Evo FQ 400 1.24.8
17 Noble 1.25.0
18 Gallardo 1.25.8
19 Aero 8 GTN 1.25.9
20 BMW M5 1.26.2
21 Porsche Cayman 1.26.2
22 Ferrari 575 GTC 1.26.8
23 Chevrolet Corvette 1.26.8
24 Lotus Exige 1.26.9
25 Aston Martin Vanquish S 1.27.1
26 Porsche 911 GT3 1.27.2
27 Spyker C8 1.27.3
28 TVR 350C 1.27.5
Not a huge difference between the T350 and the GT3, but both the Tuscan II and the Sagaris lapped well over 2 seconds faster. Am i right in thinking the GT3 RS was a much more 'track' focused car?
1 Pagani Zonda F 1.18.4
2 Maserati MC12 1.18.9
3 Ferrari Enzo 1.19.0
4 Ariel Atom 1.19.5
5 Porsche Carrera GT 1.19.8
6 Ascari KZ1 1.20.7
7 Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren 1.20.9
8 Ford GT 1.21.9
9 Porsche GT3 RS 1.22.3
10 Ferrari 360 CS 1.22.3
11 Murcielago 1.23.7
12 Zonda 1.23.8
13 Koenigsegg 1.23.9
14 Sagaris 1.24.6
15 Tuscan 1.24.8
16 Evo FQ 400 1.24.8
17 Noble 1.25.0
18 Gallardo 1.25.8
19 Aero 8 GTN 1.25.9
20 BMW M5 1.26.2
21 Porsche Cayman 1.26.2
22 Ferrari 575 GTC 1.26.8
23 Chevrolet Corvette 1.26.8
24 Lotus Exige 1.26.9
25 Aston Martin Vanquish S 1.27.1
26 Porsche 911 GT3 1.27.2
27 Spyker C8 1.27.3
28 TVR 350C 1.27.5
Not a huge difference between the T350 and the GT3, but both the Tuscan II and the Sagaris lapped well over 2 seconds faster. Am i right in thinking the GT3 RS was a much more 'track' focused car?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you take into consideration the amount of corners at Bedford against silverstone that 1% would be 3% then add another 1% for the porches driver aids as in the porche driver could make some mistakes and the on board computers would counteract it whereas the TVR driver would have no room for error at the lap times we are talking about. Now 4% at silverstone would mean the Porche would lap the TVR every 25 laps over a 50 lap race the Porche would have lapped the TVR twice, that in real terms is the difference between the Porche being a Mclaren and the TVR being a Minardi
With regards to the lap time at Bedford and the Top gear lap times does anybody know how many attempts the TVR had against the GT3. Also have a look at the GT3 weather was it the same for both cars.
Statistics are very differnt than the real thing. IMO the GT3 would eat the TVR Saggaris, Tuscan and T350 alive in a proper race on a proper track not an airfield over say 50 laps.
No driver aids no chance, 1 flying lap does not win races.
tail slide said:
According to Evo mag, less than 1% time diff around Bedford track between our T350's and a GT3....and the GT3 would probably have been on softer Michelin Pilot rubber. Don't want to start another 'bragging contest' though, and the Gt3's my favourite 911
If you take into consideration the amount of corners at Bedford against silverstone that 1% would be 3% then add another 1% for the porches driver aids as in the porche driver could make some mistakes and the on board computers would counteract it whereas the TVR driver would have no room for error at the lap times we are talking about. Now 4% at silverstone would mean the Porche would lap the TVR every 25 laps over a 50 lap race the Porche would have lapped the TVR twice, that in real terms is the difference between the Porche being a Mclaren and the TVR being a Minardi
With regards to the lap time at Bedford and the Top gear lap times does anybody know how many attempts the TVR had against the GT3. Also have a look at the GT3 weather was it the same for both cars.
Statistics are very differnt than the real thing. IMO the GT3 would eat the TVR Saggaris, Tuscan and T350 alive in a proper race on a proper track not an airfield over say 50 laps.
No driver aids no chance, 1 flying lap does not win races.
What I cant understand is why the T350 is so much slower than the Tuscan. I remember watching the episode with the Tuscan in, and it was the 3.6 version. I know that it is supposed to have a little more power than the 350 but it seems a big time difference to me, especially as everyone seems to say the 350 has better handeling!
Was the 350 lap done on a damp day ?
Was the 350 lap done on a damp day ?
marT350T said:
What I cant understand is why the T350 is so much slower than the Tuscan. I remember watching the episode with the Tuscan in, and it was the 3.6 version. I know that it is supposed to have a little more power than the 350 but it seems a big time difference to me, especially as everyone seems to say the 350 has better handeling!
Was the 350 lap done on a damp day ?
Different Stig. Warmer weather = more grip on the Tuscan II/Sagaris days (I think similar weather for both). No reason why a 2005 T350 shouldn't be the same or possibly slightly quicker than a Tuscan II.
Evo try hard to be accurate - so nearly all times are recorded in the dry, the few that they couldn't are clearly marked.
I think there was a consensus some months ago that Top Gear is entertainment, and not too bothered about facts
On tighter tracks, I have found that current TVRs' much lower weight will offset most 911's traction advantage, assuming drivers being equal & same conditions (as Targa says). Driver aids are useful on the road, but don't help track times for an experienced racer if you ask them (other than marginal help from abs in the wet)
For direct TVR comparisons, the TVR Club Speed Champ should shed some light this year; more than 50 of us entered now including recent Sags, Tuscans, Cerberas ....and my T350
>> Edited by tail slide on Sunday 19th March 23:02
I think there was a consensus some months ago that Top Gear is entertainment, and not too bothered about facts
On tighter tracks, I have found that current TVRs' much lower weight will offset most 911's traction advantage, assuming drivers being equal & same conditions (as Targa says). Driver aids are useful on the road, but don't help track times for an experienced racer if you ask them (other than marginal help from abs in the wet)
For direct TVR comparisons, the TVR Club Speed Champ should shed some light this year; more than 50 of us entered now including recent Sags, Tuscans, Cerberas ....and my T350
>> Edited by tail slide on Sunday 19th March 23:02
yi8tvr said:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- tail slide said:
According to Evo mag, less than 1% time diff around Bedford track between our T350's and a GT3....and the GT3 would probably have been on softer Michelin Pilot rubber. Don't want to start another 'bragging contest' though, and the Gt3's my favourite 911
If you take into consideration the amount of corners at Bedford against silverstone that 1% would be 3% then add another 1% for the porches driver aids as in the porche driver could make some mistakes and the on board computers would counteract it whereas the TVR driver would have no room for error at the lap times we are talking about. Now 4% at silverstone would mean the Porche would lap the TVR every 25 laps over a 50 lap race the Porche would have lapped the TVR twice, that in real terms is the difference between the Porche being a Mclaren and the TVR being a Minardi
With regards to the lap time at Bedford and the Top gear lap times does anybody know how many attempts the TVR had against the GT3. Also have a look at the GT3 weather was it the same for both cars.
Statistics are very differnt than the real thing. IMO the GT3 would eat the TVR Saggaris, Tuscan and T350 alive in a proper race on a proper track not an airfield over say 50 laps.
No driver aids no chance, 1 flying lap does not win races.
The only driver aid a GT3 has is ABS so I can't see onboard computers counteracting too many mistakes
, lol at your percentages...I often see a T350 sprint and believe me, in the right hands they are incredibly able, it even shocked the owner at Aintree when he realised his road car was quicker than his beautifully prepared and much lighter/torquier sprint car!!!
Tail slide, you may be interested to know that theres a T350 in the midland speed championship that regularly is driven extremely well and AFAIK beats quite a few tricked out porsches that also compete... Wonder if Matts bought a GT3 yet?? Im sure he'll have an opinion on it!
>> Edited by BCA on Monday 20th March 00:46
Tail slide, you may be interested to know that theres a T350 in the midland speed championship that regularly is driven extremely well and AFAIK beats quite a few tricked out porsches that also compete...
Wonder if Matts bought a GT3 yet?? Im sure he'll have an opinion on it! >> Edited by BCA on Monday 20th March 00:46
yi8tvr said:
Staight line grunt i agree the TVR will win. Now try it on a track, if both of you have the same talent bag a Porche GT2,GT3 will eat a TVR alive. If i remember rightly the neon sign above the dealership in London said " TVR a road car you can track" or similar to that i dont think it said " TVR a road car you can drag" in its proper enviroment the lack of driver aids and being only two wheel drive im afaid your exit speed on corners will let you down. Of course this is only my opinion and dont want to upset the apple cart and i am sure i would have done the same if i was in your shoes.
Yes, you rather missed the point where I was explicitly lampooning the above attitude didnt you?
Now personally I thought my p1ss taking of such attitudes was rather obvious, however it would appear I was, as usual, far too subtle.
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