Best "value for money" Elise
Discussion
I've been looking (or should that be longing) through the Classifieds and there seems to be a big overlap in prices of late S1s and early S2s. There also seems to be quite a small differential between the cheapest S2s and the cheapest Elises all together, about £13k for an early S2 and about £9k for the very cheapest Elise.
Do, I'll get to the point now - does the early S2 offer the best value for money of all the Elises, or are there other hidden gems?
Do, I'll get to the point now - does the early S2 offer the best value for money of all the Elises, or are there other hidden gems?
Humm... not sure how much use this will be as I have very short Elise ownership experience (2.5 weeks!) but...
I think it is - and always will be - a case of you get what you pay for. Yes, some models are more desirable, but it all depends on whose buying! A 135R is quite a piece of kit, but possibly too 'focussed' for some
Some people only want an S1, others wouldn't even entertain the idea! Sport 160 is another tidy unit - but not a 'secret gem' as it were
I don't think an incredible bargain exists as such. The best ones will cost more, the ropey ones less. You should go try a few to see what ticks your taste boxes
Hope this helps (..?!?!)
I think it is - and always will be - a case of you get what you pay for. Yes, some models are more desirable, but it all depends on whose buying! A 135R is quite a piece of kit, but possibly too 'focussed' for some
Some people only want an S1, others wouldn't even entertain the idea! Sport 160 is another tidy unit - but not a 'secret gem' as it were
I don't think an incredible bargain exists as such. The best ones will cost more, the ropey ones less. You should go try a few to see what ticks your taste boxes
Hope this helps (..?!?!)
Bogie's point is a good one, having said that if you are into your driving and want to improve and use the car for track etc. you'll probably find that the standard engine is a little lacking at times.
Best advice I can give is to try as many S1 and S2 variants as you can do while you're looking and get a feel for what you really like.
Best advice I can give is to try as many S1 and S2 variants as you can do while you're looking and get a feel for what you really like.
Most of the crossover in prices will be down to the mileage / condition of the specific cars involved.
A £13k+ S1 should be around 20k miles, with FLSH and be completely unmarked, preferably with driving lights, a radio installed (it's a pita if there's not one there and you feel you need it) and possibly leather if you like that sort of thing. In fact, for this sort of price you could even be buying from a dealer with a warranty.
I'm less clear on S2 options, but you're probably looking at a 50k miler S2 for the same price. With a Toyota engine that shouldn't present a problem as they appear to be pretty bulletproof, but other things such as brakes will wear out with time.
Would definitely approach anything under £10k with the view that you're going to spend a couple of grand getting it sorted (New suspension components, pads and disks and possibly even the dreaded HGF).
It's not something that can be distilled into a simple better / worse scenario though. As someone else has sensibly said, go out there and try a load and see what you like!
>> Edited by BalhamLotus on Friday 17th March 17:35
A £13k+ S1 should be around 20k miles, with FLSH and be completely unmarked, preferably with driving lights, a radio installed (it's a pita if there's not one there and you feel you need it) and possibly leather if you like that sort of thing. In fact, for this sort of price you could even be buying from a dealer with a warranty.
I'm less clear on S2 options, but you're probably looking at a 50k miler S2 for the same price. With a Toyota engine that shouldn't present a problem as they appear to be pretty bulletproof, but other things such as brakes will wear out with time.
Would definitely approach anything under £10k with the view that you're going to spend a couple of grand getting it sorted (New suspension components, pads and disks and possibly even the dreaded HGF).
It's not something that can be distilled into a simple better / worse scenario though. As someone else has sensibly said, go out there and try a load and see what you like!
>> Edited by BalhamLotus on Friday 17th March 17:35
If your consideration is simply value for money then you have to hunt around and find the oldest car with the least miles for the least money. That way you are at the end of the depreciation curve and paying least for the car.
The bottom line is that you are trying to buy a lotus with the type of thinking you would use for a conventional car. They are not sensible, they are not (that) reliable, they are not dependible, they are not an "ible" car. Buying a Lotus is an act of passion for the mark, the car and the love of driving.
Match the lotus to the type of driving you want to do and fall in love.
The bottom line is that you are trying to buy a lotus with the type of thinking you would use for a conventional car. They are not sensible, they are not (that) reliable, they are not dependible, they are not an "ible" car. Buying a Lotus is an act of passion for the mark, the car and the love of driving.
Match the lotus to the type of driving you want to do and fall in love.
an S1 135 Sport or a very nice S1 111S are by far the most 'complete' and therefore perhaps best value Elises.... the S1's are bottoming out in the residual stakes whereas the S2's are still in freefall and may even end up waving at the S1's as they fall past.
The S2 appeals to the modern market as it is less focussed than the S1 (S2 135R excepted)... however that market will often jump ship when the next 'new thing' arrives.
The S1 is a definite classic and in time, they will be the ones to have... just think of MGB's (chrome as opposed to plastic bumper), Golf GTI's (mk1's as opposed to anything that came afterwards), Escort RS Cosworths (as opposed to Focus RS's), original BMW M3's as opposed to the oversold later ones.... etc etc etc....
Just my 2p's worth of course (having now bought 3 S1's despite having the choice to go S2 if I wanted)
The S2 appeals to the modern market as it is less focussed than the S1 (S2 135R excepted)... however that market will often jump ship when the next 'new thing' arrives.
The S1 is a definite classic and in time, they will be the ones to have... just think of MGB's (chrome as opposed to plastic bumper), Golf GTI's (mk1's as opposed to anything that came afterwards), Escort RS Cosworths (as opposed to Focus RS's), original BMW M3's as opposed to the oversold later ones.... etc etc etc....
Just my 2p's worth of course (having now bought 3 S1's despite having the choice to go S2 if I wanted)
BalhamLotus said:
Most of the crossover in prices will be down to the mileage / condition of the specific cars involved.
A £13k+ S1 should be around 20k miles, with FLSH and be completely unmarked, preferably with driving lights, a radio installed (it's a pita if there's not one there and you feel you need it) and possibly leather if you like that sort of thing. In fact, for this sort of price you could even be buying from a dealer with a warranty.
I'm less clear on S2 options, but you're probably looking at a 50k miler S2 for the same price. With a Toyota engine that shouldn't present a problem as they appear to be pretty bulletproof, but other things such as brakes will wear out with time.
If I might add a little more from my perspective...
At the crossover point you're generally looking at either a very clean low miles, late model "standard" engined S1, fully stamped up with all the sensible mods done (decent tyres, probably a new exhaust, induction, brakes sorted, maybe S2 suspension), a special edition car, or a relatively low miles (20-30k) 111S or Sport 135.
In an S2 you'll get an early S2 Race Tech or Sports Tourer, both with the standard engine, likely to have higher miles (30K plus). Although you may be lucky and snap up a bargain where the engine's had the 135 treatment, regularly recommended as the best 'all rounder' for the K series, or a lower miles GJOB car which has just not been used much.
Alternatively if you know what you're doing you 'might' pick up a decent cat D S2 111S for this sort of money. I'd be very wary though if you stray into this territory.
You won't be getting anywhere near a 'yota engined car at this money. 20k is about the break point for a 111R at the moment.
BalhamLotus said:
Would definitely approach anything under £10k with the view that you're going to spend a couple of grand getting it sorted (New suspension components, pads and disks and possibly even the dreaded HGF).
That's worth bearing in mind when viewing but isn't necessarily the truth. There have been several cars around the 10kmark which have sold recently which were absolute steals as they'd had all of the above (bar HGF) done by previous owners. And the HGF thing is really not something that's anymore likely in a sub 10k car than it is on an 18k S2 135R!
gooby said:
If your consideration is simply value for money then you have to hunt around and find the oldest car with the least miles for the least money. That way you are at the end of the depreciation curve and paying least for the car.
The bottom line is that you are trying to buy a lotus with the type of thinking you would use for a conventional car. They are not sensible, they are not (that) reliable, they are not dependible, they are not an "ible" car. Buying a Lotus is an act of passion for the mark, the car and the love of driving.
Match the lotus to the type of driving you want to do and fall in love.
ayjay said:
an S1 135 Sport or a very nice S1 111S are by far the most 'complete' and therefore perhaps best value Elises.... the S1's are bottoming out in the residual stakes whereas the S2's are still in freefall and may even end up waving at the S1's as they fall past.
The S2 appeals to the modern market as it is less focussed than the S1 (S2 135R excepted)... however that market will often jump ship when the next 'new thing' arrives.
The S1 is a definite classic and in time, they will be the ones to have... just think of MGB's (chrome as opposed to plastic bumper), Golf GTI's (mk1's as opposed to anything that came afterwards), Escort RS Cosworths (as opposed to Focus RS's), original BMW M3's as opposed to the oversold later ones.... etc etc etc....
Just my 2p's worth of course (having now bought 3 S1's despite having the choice to go S2 if I wanted)
Pretty much agree with the above, all bar the point about S2's waving to the S1's on the way down. I think we're finding about the bottom of the market for S1's and S2's for the moment. Sure there will always be a few that break the nadir but these will generally be the tattiest cars which need lots doing them and the work required generally prices them back up to the low point again.
I was wondering the same last year, but ended up getting an S2.
I wanted it mainly for road use up here in scotland.
The things that put me off the S1 were the interior (i like fuzzy dashboards and i wanted decent padding on my seat!) and the gearbox (I wanted a close ratio box - it's absolutely FAB by the way! - DEFINATELY worthwhile!)
the S2 has a lovely interior compared to the s1 (IMHO) as standard, and the seats are MUCH comfyer!! also the close ratio box is standard on the s2.
on the other hand if you want a track car, the s1 is quite a bit lighter!
what clinched it for me was finding a reasonably priced s2 with a VERY careful previoius owner who had put 5K miles on it in 4 years! - on it's original tyres (barely worn) and original brake pads (barely worn) with the cleanest engine bay i'd ever seen! - couldn't pass up a car like that!
anyway - happy hunting, and whatever you get you'll love it to bits!
A.
I wanted it mainly for road use up here in scotland.
The things that put me off the S1 were the interior (i like fuzzy dashboards and i wanted decent padding on my seat!) and the gearbox (I wanted a close ratio box - it's absolutely FAB by the way! - DEFINATELY worthwhile!)
the S2 has a lovely interior compared to the s1 (IMHO) as standard, and the seats are MUCH comfyer!! also the close ratio box is standard on the s2.
on the other hand if you want a track car, the s1 is quite a bit lighter!
what clinched it for me was finding a reasonably priced s2 with a VERY careful previoius owner who had put 5K miles on it in 4 years! - on it's original tyres (barely worn) and original brake pads (barely worn) with the cleanest engine bay i'd ever seen! - couldn't pass up a car like that!
anyway - happy hunting, and whatever you get you'll love it to bits!
A.
I've just bought my first elise for £7100!! 45k miles BARGAIN! It only had half of its service history but the guy who had it before me had maintained it well and the engine is a peach. Come with Nitron suspension (£1000) brand new elise parts ally disks (£250) and new 12 months MOT. Also gave me 4 mint 111s alloys which I sold for £600 and came with a plate that is worth around £1000. So my elise only cost me £5500!!
Judging by the sales of S2's on ebay alone, I think it is still a buyers market for
the elise. There are some real bargains to be had if the owner is looking for a
quick sale. There seems to be a steady stream of early S2 (120's) going for 11.5-13k
bracket. Higher mileage seems to really dent the resale value, mainly due to the fact
that there are quite a lot around on the second hand market with 15-30k miles. So there
are some pretty tempting bargains. I don't see why high milage should be off putting as
long as the car has a full service history. It is a pretty tried and tested engine after
all, and regular maintenance should see lots of trouble free miles.
Can't comment on the differences between the S1 and S2, but personally if I had around
12k I would be angling for an S2, even with higher milage as the prices aren't going to
get much lower in a rush as they are starting to bump into the S1 price range. Mind you
I am biased as I much prefer the S2 for a variety of reasons.
the elise. There are some real bargains to be had if the owner is looking for a
quick sale. There seems to be a steady stream of early S2 (120's) going for 11.5-13k
bracket. Higher mileage seems to really dent the resale value, mainly due to the fact
that there are quite a lot around on the second hand market with 15-30k miles. So there
are some pretty tempting bargains. I don't see why high milage should be off putting as
long as the car has a full service history. It is a pretty tried and tested engine after
all, and regular maintenance should see lots of trouble free miles.
Can't comment on the differences between the S1 and S2, but personally if I had around
12k I would be angling for an S2, even with higher milage as the prices aren't going to
get much lower in a rush as they are starting to bump into the S1 price range. Mind you
I am biased as I much prefer the S2 for a variety of reasons.
I've run our series 2 Elise for just over a year now and its used regularly. A great car I have to say, what I would say is stay away from the cars that are'nt used much, items that do'nt get used suffer big time. Its better to buy a used example than one that sits in the garage loved but not used with all the rubber bits going hard etc. Expensive in the long run. Unfortunatly we are having to sell as a baby wont fit!!!! Let me know if you want some info.
I'd say too that you should just go by your heart and buy the car you like best. To me, nothing will destroy ownership of a car like an unreliable engine. So go this route first.
A few scratches and scuffs both outside and inside have to be preferable to the latter.
If you can track down a totally bog standard S1 with a low mileage, then you may well be looking at a car which becomes very sought after. Normally car manufacturers get it right first time as they put so much into it. The S1 was how Lotus intended the car. The S2 is more how a fickle public intended the car. ( Less raw )
Both are great, though. I really wouldn't think of the money or residuals ( unless it IS a problem, of course ) as even if you buy a 100% reliable and totally unscratched car, you find you actually WANT to spend money on the Lotus!
I am a tight sod yet I am already thinking of new tyres, new suspension, front clam respray. I only put the 'best' oil in, at twice the price of competitors.
Before I bought the Elise I would just run a car until it blew up, scrap it and get another with 11 months MOT.
Believe me, when you have bought one, S1 or 2, the money you paid is forgotten.
Worth more than money worries!
A few scratches and scuffs both outside and inside have to be preferable to the latter.
If you can track down a totally bog standard S1 with a low mileage, then you may well be looking at a car which becomes very sought after. Normally car manufacturers get it right first time as they put so much into it. The S1 was how Lotus intended the car. The S2 is more how a fickle public intended the car. ( Less raw )
Both are great, though. I really wouldn't think of the money or residuals ( unless it IS a problem, of course ) as even if you buy a 100% reliable and totally unscratched car, you find you actually WANT to spend money on the Lotus!
I am a tight sod yet I am already thinking of new tyres, new suspension, front clam respray. I only put the 'best' oil in, at twice the price of competitors.
Before I bought the Elise I would just run a car until it blew up, scrap it and get another with 11 months MOT.
Believe me, when you have bought one, S1 or 2, the money you paid is forgotten.
Worth more than money worries!
Gassing Station | Elise/Exige/Europa/340R | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff