TVR in Traction Control Shock

[Imelda]

In EVO this month is an article on the Cerbera Speed 12 and an interview with Peter Wheeler, in which he admits that TVR are currently developing traction control software for their cars.

Blimey!

What's next? A box of Kleenex and a trilby hat nailed to the parcel shelves on all future models? A pipe and slippers holder on the dashboard? Engine management software that automatically keeps the revs at 6500 rpm, while simultaneously slipping the clutch like a bastard, when pulling out of supermarket car park spaces?

[shpub]

Some of us have been using this technology on our TVRs for years - www.tvrbooks.co.uk and look in the sprint section.

Steve

[EdT]

A year ago I was still dead against the idea of a sports car having TC. Find myself warming up to the idea recently. Guy (Blue Satin) fitted this t his high powered Ultima GT, and when it's wet turn it on. Saves him £££ on rubber too. His system offers a control to specify how much assistance to give.

Regards, Ed

[markez79]

Imelda: Don't suppose there was any hint as to when Evo will get their hands on a T350 to test was there??

[daydreamer]

As long as it is done properly, I don't see the problem in TC. Switch to full in the wet - just in case, tune for the track best time, and switch off when tail out hooning is the only way to go .

A lot of people say that your right foot is as good as any system, but if the F1 guys (apparently these people have prettyu good reactions) see an advantage in it, then it could possibly help us mere mortals a lot more - including saving a life or two!

The obvious key is to no overdo it - if the system becomes too Fiesta like, kicking in when there is a hint of a possiblity of a slip, then the better drivers will have less control, and therefore PW will have a lot of explaining to do! Done properly though, especially with a variable kick in swithc it may even increase enjoyment on the track, whilst letting us get home in the rain afterwards!

[d_drinks]

For some people the thought of 350BHP, rear wheel drive and a kerb weight of 900KGS without TC or ABS is too daunting esp with the amount of drivng in the wet we have to do in the UK. TVR developing these and having them as either a cost or no cost extra surely isn't a bad thing? If you want it you ask for it is not carry on as is. If they do develop a system then have it so it can be switched off if required. Though you can't please all of the people all of the time this would go someway to giving everyone what they want??

[rev-erend]

I think it's being developed to help in making
TVR's an every day car as opposed to sunny days only.

All other similar cars 'boxter' 'tt' etc have the
option and are better all rounders for it.

I would love it but it must be switchable.

[jon h]

Electronics are not all bad! I would be more than happy to see ABS in a TVR as I have had in all my every day cars for years. I am sure any system that finds its way into production will have an OFF switch so a personal choice can be made.

In a recent magazine article, cannot remember which mag, they tested cars 0 to 100 to 0 Looking at all the figures, the TVR did very well, as you may expect but it really lost out in the braking. I guess that this is because all the competition is using ABS. In a reall world situation this means that in a current TVR, despite the big brakes, it will take longer to stop than in many other cars of similar performance. I for one, would be happy to have a little electronic help in this situation!

Jon H

[Imelda]

markez79 said: Imelda: Don't suppose there was any hint as to when Evo will get their hands on a T350 to test was there??

Not that I saw, I'm afraid. Just buy one anyway. You know it makes sense.

[daydreamer]

jon h said: Looking at all the figures, the TVR did very well, as you may expect but it really lost out in the braking. I guess that this is because all the competition is using ABS.

A recent car program (possibly 5th gear or other reliable resource), did a feature on ABS.

They said that, in dry conditions, all other things being equal, then the fastest way to stop was to lock the wheels as this ensures that the maimum friction force is being transmitted. (Possibly why F1 have TC, but not ABS)

Problem with this approach is that you can't steer . As with TC, in order to keep the car raw, then adjustability is the key. As all of these things are software driven these days, the variable cost for including a sensitivity dial, or keypad input would be very small, and everybody is happy .

[p7ulg]

daydreamer said: As long as it is done properly, I don't see the problem in TC. Switch to full in the wet - just in case, tune for the track best time, and switch off when tail out hooning is the only way to go .

A lot of people say that your right foot is as good as any system, but if the F1 guys (apparently these people have prettyu good reactions) see an advantage in it, then it could possibly help us mere mortals a lot more - including saving a life or two!

The obvious key is to no overdo it - if the system becomes too Fiesta like, kicking in when there is a hint of a possiblity of a slip, then the better drivers will have less control, and therefore PW will have a lot of explaining to do! Done properly though, especially with a variable kick in swithc it may even increase enjoyment on the track, whilst letting us get home in the rain afterwards!

Unfortunately thats why F1 is so boring!As for saving lives? I would say all that Traction Control does is to allow people to drive faster in bad conditions. Having owned cars with and without Traction Control I wouldn't say it makes a lot of difference.The only time I have seen it working was when I floored the pedal in a BMW on ice, to see what the traction control would do! IMHO while it can be said it is a safety feature I feel it only masks poor throttle control during road use . Lets face it if you want to drive a computer buy a playstation.

>> Edited by p7ulg on Thursday 2nd January 13:49

[GreenV8S]

They said that, in dry conditions, all other things being equal, then the fastest way to stop was to lock the wheels as this ensures that the maimum friction force is being transmitted.

That may be true in some specific situations (fresh snow for instance) but in general, grip drops off dramatically when the wheel locks. In the dry it will drop by about 20%, in the wet by 40% or more. Except on snow, the only time I would deliberately lock a wheel is when the car is spinning.

Cheers,
Peter Humphries (and a green V8S)

[sparks]

I think ABS and TC would be a good idea as at least an option. They must be 'defeatable' (i.e. you can switch them off) and the TC would be better if tuneable.

Let the customer decide, but most would want them for wet at least.

Sparks

[plipton]

Personally I'm not bothered about TC, (but would be useful occasionally).

As for ABS - I nearly didn't buy the Chimp as it had none (same goes for airbags). Had a near miss recently when a blind tw@t in a fiesta pulled out of a side road straight into my path. I was doing about 30 at the time and locked all the wheels, bounced on to the pavement and nearly hit a wall. If there had been a child on that pavement........

IMHO any safety item like these is a good idea. If the owner decides to switch them off that's his/her choice.

[bennno]

daydreamer said

They said that, in dry conditions, all other things being equal, then the fastest way to stop was to lock the wheels as this ensures that the maimum friction force is being transmitted. (Possibly why F1 have TC, but not ABS)

---

thats rubbish BTW as anybody thats ever had driver training will confirm. If you lock the wheels you have exceeded the point of maximum friction and the brakes become less effective.

Bennno