Elise: "Never been tracked" ?
Discussion
I'm interested in opinions on track status of cars in classifieds. Imagine you are in the market for an Elise principally for road use, would you be more interested (and why)in a 4 year old 12K mile Elise S2 111s which has;
A. Sports exhuast and ally tat, road miles only never tracked, original brakes etc, Lotus dealer stamped annual AABA services ?
B. Sports exhuast and ally tat, £4k of track modifications including harness, Nitrons, choice of RE040 or A048 tyres, recognised specialist stamped AABA services, plus oil and brake fluid changed every 4 months or 10 hours of track time, brake pads and disks replaced annually, bushes joints and track rod ends guaranteed same condition as case A.
Just wondering as I see a lot of "never been tracked" chat and would like to understand what the perceived benefit/disbenefits are.
A. Sports exhuast and ally tat, road miles only never tracked, original brakes etc, Lotus dealer stamped annual AABA services ?
B. Sports exhuast and ally tat, £4k of track modifications including harness, Nitrons, choice of RE040 or A048 tyres, recognised specialist stamped AABA services, plus oil and brake fluid changed every 4 months or 10 hours of track time, brake pads and disks replaced annually, bushes joints and track rod ends guaranteed same condition as case A.
Just wondering as I see a lot of "never been tracked" chat and would like to understand what the perceived benefit/disbenefits are.
Hans
Interesting question ... I will assume that for some people that the word "track use/modded" will be synonymous with "ragged to destruction" which equals "knackered" or "will need shedloads spent" to rectify the assumed abuse. In some ways it isn't a wholly irrational thought since a car's performance envelope is much more likely to be used on track than it is pootling down to Sainsbury's. As we know however, it can be a false premise to operate from sometimes.
I also believe that the general consensus on second hand cars is that a standard "unmodified" car will have larger marketability than a "modified" car. Not surprising perhaps ... not everyone will want/like the "mods" and the standard factory specification is the accepted baseline from which other judgements can flow.
Still, anything that helps the seller to achieve a quick sale at a higher price is useful from that point of view. So "Never tracked" probably helps in that context.
Personally I would be more interested in my own assessment of the car and how well the car is maintained if I were in the market ... but then you already know what I like to use the Elise for!
In conclusion, my understanding is that the more a seller deviates from the "standard" spec and normal "road" use then the less marketable the car is likely to be.
>> Edited by bjc388 on Saturday 18th March 11:54
Interesting question ... I will assume that for some people that the word "track use/modded" will be synonymous with "ragged to destruction" which equals "knackered" or "will need shedloads spent" to rectify the assumed abuse. In some ways it isn't a wholly irrational thought since a car's performance envelope is much more likely to be used on track than it is pootling down to Sainsbury's. As we know however, it can be a false premise to operate from sometimes.
I also believe that the general consensus on second hand cars is that a standard "unmodified" car will have larger marketability than a "modified" car. Not surprising perhaps ... not everyone will want/like the "mods" and the standard factory specification is the accepted baseline from which other judgements can flow.
Still, anything that helps the seller to achieve a quick sale at a higher price is useful from that point of view. So "Never tracked" probably helps in that context.
Personally I would be more interested in my own assessment of the car and how well the car is maintained if I were in the market ... but then you already know what I like to use the Elise for!
In conclusion, my understanding is that the more a seller deviates from the "standard" spec and normal "road" use then the less marketable the car is likely to be.
>> Edited by bjc388 on Saturday 18th March 11:54
You have to see them both, but on paper I prefer B
It seems extremely well cared for. Thats not to say following the normal service schedule is a bad thing, just that extra care is a good thing.
BTW 4 services? Forth one should have been a C Service, both should have had a new cambelt
It seems extremely well cared for. Thats not to say following the normal service schedule is a bad thing, just that extra care is a good thing.
BTW 4 services? Forth one should have been a C Service, both should have had a new cambelt
Stuartb said:
You have to see them both, but on paper I prefer B
It seems extremely well cared for. Thats not to say following the normal service schedule is a bad thing, just that extra care is a good thing.
BTW 4 services? Forth one should have been a C Service, both should have had a new cambelt
Is it not AABA(plus cam belt)AC So doesnt necessarily mean it should have had a C service as yet
wacattack said:
BTW 4 services? Forth one should have been a C Service, both should have had a new cambelt
Is it not AABA(plus cam belt)AC So doesnt necessarily mean it should have had a C service as yet
Very true, not that there is going to be much difference in the price
Tracked or not, you could be buying off a driver that "drove it like he stole it". With any second hand car, you can't know everything about what you're buying.
I can understand some people having doubts about a tracked car, but the elise was designed to be used on tracks. As long as there is good evidence that it has been well cared for, there should be no problem.
Besides, a tracked car is more likely to be owned by an enthusiast who loves their car and cherishes it.
I can understand some people having doubts about a tracked car, but the elise was designed to be used on tracks. As long as there is good evidence that it has been well cared for, there should be no problem.
Besides, a tracked car is more likely to be owned by an enthusiast who loves their car and cherishes it.
wacattack said:
You have to see them both, but on paper I prefer B
It seems extremely well cared for. Thats not to say following the normal service schedule is a bad thing, just that extra care is a good thing.
BTW 4 services? Forth one should have been a C Service, both should have had a new cambelt
Is it not AABA(plus cam belt)AC So doesnt necessarily mean it should have had a C service as yet
Lotus now recommend the cambelt is changed every 54k miles or 4 yrs whichever is earlier.
I recently bought an S1 Elise with 39k up but no C service and very quickly realised it should have been done. Fortunately after a bit of clarification
the dealer I bought the car from (Ferrari people) have sent the car to local Lotus approved dealer for full C service + cambelt. >> Edited by TIPPER on Saturday 18th March 20:11
TIPPER said:
Lotus now recommend the cambelt is changed every 54k miles or 4 yrs whichever is earlier.
Yes they recommend that the cambelt is changed every 4 years but not that a 'C' service is carried out every 4 years. There is a difference. What WACATTACK siad above was correct. 4 years = 'A' service + cambelt change.
HTH
Dan
Jude Performance Services Ltd.
>> Edited by djroadboy on Saturday 18th March 21:27
StuartB said:
BTW 4 services? Forth one should have been a C Service, both should have had a new cambelt
Is it not AABA(plus cam belt)AC So doesnt necessarily mean it should have had a C service as yet
Very true, not that there is going to be much difference in the price
There will be quite a large difference in price as you're not changing the air filter, plugs or fuel filter.
HTH
Dan
Jude Performance Services Ltd.
The problem is most people probably only realise the benefits of those mods & the servicing once they have owned an elise for a while. Option B has the exact mods i want most now - but when i bought my car they were not important to me.
I think a tracked car will appeal to less people, especially people new to the elise or trackdays.
I think a tracked car will appeal to less people, especially people new to the elise or trackdays.
my twopenneth worth...
The problem with all those mods is it's going to be a bugger to get insurance. The poinbt of selling anything is to make it appeal to a wide an audince as possible and the highly mod'd car is going to eliminate a large portion of your potential buyers.
I wouldn't have bought a car with all those mods on and a potentil track history....
Which probably means that someone is going to get a bargian!
The problem with all those mods is it's going to be a bugger to get insurance. The poinbt of selling anything is to make it appeal to a wide an audince as possible and the highly mod'd car is going to eliminate a large portion of your potential buyers.
I wouldn't have bought a car with all those mods on and a potentil track history....
Which probably means that someone is going to get a bargian!
nwtony said:
my twopenneth worth...
The problem with all those mods is it's going to be a bugger to get insurance. The poinbt of selling anything is to make it appeal to a wide an audince as possible and the highly mod'd car is going to eliminate a large portion of your potential buyers.
I wouldn't have bought a car with all those mods on and a potentil track history....
Which probably means that someone is going to get a bargian!
Depends on what a buyer is looking for. I deliberately bought my S1 BECAUSE it was already modded with approximately £4k worth of mods including Nitrons. The price I paid was more or less exactly the same as a std car - Bargain!
Id go for B and generally would like to buy from an enthusiast owner who hasnt scrimped on anything
Ive seen FLSH GJOB owned cars that are 5 year old, done 15K miles...look like bargains except you realise that because it hasnt been used, everything is old, needs replacing anyway and all the niggles wont be sorted
By something lightly modified and sorted and you cant go wrong....
Ive seen FLSH GJOB owned cars that are 5 year old, done 15K miles...look like bargains except you realise that because it hasnt been used, everything is old, needs replacing anyway and all the niggles wont be sorted
By something lightly modified and sorted and you cant go wrong....
hbaumhardt said:
I'm interested in opinions on track status of cars in classifieds. Imagine you are in the market for an Elise principally for road use,
At the end of the day, for the use you plan for the car there is no option, go for A. If it is going to be used for road use then there isnt a lot of point in many of the upgrades. Most of the benefits will only be experienced on the track.
Also, if you ever plan to sell the beast there will be a wider auduence if there are no mods on it.
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