Cayman S.... just wow.
Discussion
Was driven (!) to post on this 'board after a fabulous weekend hooning a Cayman around the Cotswolds - it was an absolute revelation!
Having driven a 996C2, 997C2, 996TT and GT2 (thanks to P1) I thought I'd be disappointed but I have to say I had more fun in it than any of the others. Instantly felt able to exploit the car - total confidence.
My mother had the joy of spending her Mother's Day being wizzed around in it - just sublime - the most fun I've had in a car since the F430. Like the 430 it just gives you total confidence in a way I still find hard to pinpoint but that means you can push into damp corners and roundabouts faster than I'd ever attempt in my 350Z. And then full throttle out, the PSM doing its stuff and feeling the car jittering sideways across the tarmac before kissing the nearside apex of the roundabout exit perfectly on the way out. Fab!
To disagree entirely with Clarkson... why would you spend the extra £20k on a 911?! - the Cayman feels as fast to me and even I can tell it's more involving. And it's got more luggage space and all the fab kit/satnav/phone/PASM etc. Only problem is it's designed for people several inches shorter than me, but I can stand the cramp when the driving is so much fun!
I'm sure all the other Porkers are just as much fun in the right hands, but this was the one that opened me to the possibility of a lifetime of debt!
Having driven a 996C2, 997C2, 996TT and GT2 (thanks to P1) I thought I'd be disappointed but I have to say I had more fun in it than any of the others. Instantly felt able to exploit the car - total confidence.
My mother had the joy of spending her Mother's Day being wizzed around in it - just sublime - the most fun I've had in a car since the F430. Like the 430 it just gives you total confidence in a way I still find hard to pinpoint but that means you can push into damp corners and roundabouts faster than I'd ever attempt in my 350Z. And then full throttle out, the PSM doing its stuff and feeling the car jittering sideways across the tarmac before kissing the nearside apex of the roundabout exit perfectly on the way out. Fab!
To disagree entirely with Clarkson... why would you spend the extra £20k on a 911?! - the Cayman feels as fast to me and even I can tell it's more involving. And it's got more luggage space and all the fab kit/satnav/phone/PASM etc. Only problem is it's designed for people several inches shorter than me, but I can stand the cramp when the driving is so much fun!
I'm sure all the other Porkers are just as much fun in the right hands, but this was the one that opened me to the possibility of a lifetime of debt!
The reason why the 911 is worth more money than the Cayman is because it has a better engine and is more challenging as a driver.
The rear engined car is always going to be rewarding than a mid engined car because you have to work with the car much more. There is much more to appreciate about the car physics, its limitations and its characteristics up to and beyond the limit of adhesion.
For most people, speed and and looks are all that matters. For you, the Cayman will be enough. End of your story. For the better drivers, the Cayman doesn't offer enough.
The rear engined car is always going to be rewarding than a mid engined car because you have to work with the car much more. There is much more to appreciate about the car physics, its limitations and its characteristics up to and beyond the limit of adhesion.
For most people, speed and and looks are all that matters. For you, the Cayman will be enough. End of your story. For the better drivers, the Cayman doesn't offer enough.
MadKipper said:
For most people, speed and and looks are all that matters. For you, the Cayman will be enough. End of your story. For the better drivers, the Cayman doesn't offer enough.
No matter what the driver skill level, if the chassis, etc of the car allows you to travel faster in an 'easier' manner in the 'lower cache' car, then so be it. The 'better drivers' will then have plenty in reserve.
I'd like to see some people try and drive their cars quickly round a challenging circuit like the 'Ring or down a twisty road. I think many may be surprised at their ability versus the ability of their car.
MadKipper said:
The reason why the 911 is worth more money than the Cayman is because it has a better engine and is more challenging as a driver.
erm isn't it the same family of engine? just with a bigger displacement?
MadKipper said:
The rear engined car is always going to be rewarding than a mid engined car because you have to work with the car much more. There is much more to appreciate about the car physics, its limitations and its characteristics up to and beyond the limit of adhesion.
I think you are confusing engineering genius for the correct positioning of an engine.
its limitations in most circumstances are much lower than mid engined cars and beyond the limits of adhesion? its taken them what, 30 years, for it to stop killing people when you get beyond those limits.
Having had the tail out on an elise when not expecting it I would say you have to be just as aware of the physics of a mid engined potential spinning top as well.
MadKipper said:
For most people, speed and and looks are all that matters. For you, the Cayman will be enough. End of your story. For the better drivers, the Cayman doesn't offer enough.
if its isn't about the looks/image on a 911 why didn't you save money and buy an S1 elise and put skinny rears on it? I would say it would give you the same mix of feel and potential nervousness that you seem to think you are uniquely qualified to control.
Now don't get me wrong. I love the 911, i've driven a few and couldn't get over how good it was to drive. It does annoy the hell out of me though when people post about other cars as though they are so inferior and for choosing to buy one you must be a dreadful driver.
Can't help thinking that I'd rather be driven anywhere by someone who thinks hes an OK driver than one who thinks hes a great driver. I know which ones going to make the fatal over assesment of their talents.
Rant over
Sorry - didn't mean to dis the 911 - the TT especially was a fabulous occasion, but from a "car I'd like to own" perspective and finite funds the Cayman just seems a great bargain.
Absolutely accept the view that for the genuinely talented the rewards of the 911 would almost certainly be more.
Absolutely accept the view that for the genuinely talented the rewards of the 911 would almost certainly be more.
i dont think you should: the very idea that the 911 is a car for people who can actually drive, rather than be seen in a sports car is disgustingly elitist. makes my skin crawl to know that there are owners that consider themselves superior in any way because of the position of their engine.
mikeyboy said:
Now don't get me wrong. I love the 911, i've driven a few and couldn't get over how good it was to drive. It does annoy the hell out of me though when people post about other cars as though they are so inferior and for choosing to buy one you must be a dreadful driver.
Can't help thinking that I'd rather be driven anywhere by someone who thinks hes an OK driver than one who thinks hes a great driver. I know which ones going to make the fatal over assesment of their talents.
Rant over
absolutely seconded. anyone that thinks that theyre superior by asociation is utterly deluded. being able to afford more does not mean you are more.
Nice summation, I bet these cars are indeed, amazingly honed.
The comments about the power seem odd: sure, few cars have the final shove of powerful 911s but in isolation, the Caymen accelerates quite adequately and hits in excess of 170mph at which point I'll wager it's as stable and composed as say, most recent uber saloons.
I remember Don taking me around a water logged Silverstone in his Boxster S a while back and it felt like a paragon of poise.
Of course, Don ain't no numpty at the wheel but still...
The comments about the power seem odd: sure, few cars have the final shove of powerful 911s but in isolation, the Caymen accelerates quite adequately and hits in excess of 170mph at which point I'll wager it's as stable and composed as say, most recent uber saloons.
I remember Don taking me around a water logged Silverstone in his Boxster S a while back and it felt like a paragon of poise.
Of course, Don ain't no numpty at the wheel but still...
I think we all agree that the Cayman is fun to drive and well engineered,great handling etc and i should imagine in time will prove itself to be a very accessable quick track car....however can it get past 2 lorries and a tractor in a 200 yard dash when required on a uk 'b' road like a more powerful car can ?That is more the reality of road driving IMO.
kayc said:
I think we all agree that the Cayman is fun to drive and well engineered,great handling etc and i should imagine in time will prove itself to be a very accessable quick track car....however can it get past 2 lorries and a tractor in a 200 yard dash when required on a UK 'b' road like a more powerful car can ?That is more the reality of road driving IMO.
i simply cant accept that the differences in performance between the cayman and the 911 are so stark that this 'maneuver' would be possible in one, and not the other. prove it and ill happily apologise. until then, it sounds like a load of stuck-up cobblers to me.
My last recollection of trying to overtake on a British B road was that a Bugatti Veyron would not have been sufficient, traffic is so heavy and drivers so poorly informed about maintaining fluidity of traffic flow around them and making good progress. In a GT3, you drop a couple of cogs with a blair of revs, bounce over the ruts and potholes on a heavily cambered bumpy back road, all fear and drama in one high adrenalin lunge. Can't say I take much pleasure in that unless I need the fix. Rather do it in a turbo. For the same reason, I'd probably get more useability out of a Cayman S.
FWIW, I have followed and been followed by a pesky (and well driven) Cayman on track and found it to be adequately challenging. Certainly quicker than the vast majority of exotica on track at the same time.
FWIW, I have followed and been followed by a pesky (and well driven) Cayman on track and found it to be adequately challenging. Certainly quicker than the vast majority of exotica on track at the same time.
nervous said:
I think we all agree that the Cayman is fun to drive and well engineered,great handling etc and i should imagine in time will prove itself to be a very accessable quick track car....however can it get past 2 lorries and a tractor in a 200 yard dash when required on a UK 'b' road like a more powerful car can ?That is more the reality of road driving IMO.
i simply cant accept that the differences in performance between the cayman and the 911 are so stark that this 'maneuver' would be possible in one, and not the other. prove it and ill happily apologise. until then, it sounds like a load of stuck-up cobblers to me.
I'm with nervy on this one - I think you are going to be overtaking something a whole lot quicker than a tractor to notice the difference between the two. My guess is that by the time you get to the point where there are noticable differences in the overtaking abilities of the cars there wouldn't be too many B roads with long enough straights.
nervous said:
i dont think you should: the very idea that the 911 is a car for people who can actually drive, rather than be seen in a sports car is disgustingly elitist. makes my skin crawl to know that there are owners that consider themselves superior in any way because of the position of their engine.
derestrictor said:
Nice summation, I bet these cars are indeed, amazingly honed.
The comments about the power seem odd: sure, few cars have the final shove of powerful 911s but in isolation, the Caymen accelerates quite adequately and hits in excess of 170mph at which point I'll wager it's as stable and composed as say, most recent uber saloons.
I remember Don taking me around a water logged Silverstone in his Boxster S a while back and it felt like a paragon of poise.
Of course, Don ain't no numpty at the wheel but still...
Although we did get to use some PSM on the exit of Copse once IIRC. I lifted to bring it back on line but the electronics definitely wanted to kick in...
God that was WET! Nightmare. And thank you...
For some people there will never be enough power and speed. For me, I never once tired of the sheer excitement of driving my Boxster S as fast as my skill allowed down some lovely twisty B road and letting it flow through the corners. I never once reached maximum revs or speed but the enjoyment and thrill was sublime. The Cayman sounds like it offers this and much much more so for me it's more than enough.
MadKipper said:
The reason why the 911 is worth more money than the Cayman is because it has a better engine and is more challenging as a driver.
this forum is dominated by playboys! there are of course just a few of us here who would appreciate the two rear seats since we are not in a position to indulge our automotive passions to the total exclusion of the rest of the family (nor necessarily would we want to)
softinthehead said:
this forum is dominated by playboys! there are of course just a few of us here who would appreciate the two rear seats since we are not in a position to indulge our automotive passions to the total exclusion of the rest of the family (nor necessarily would we want to)
in fairness, the lady from the local now-defunct magic act and Douglas bader regularly enjoy a spin in the back of my car.
that said, lap belts are less effective with this kind of morphology.
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