early 996 advice
Discussion
I've noticed in the past few weeks, quite a lot of 'cheaper' 996s coming on the market, ie in the 22-25k mark.
These all seem to be early cars, 98/99, 70kish miles, generally with the original alloys and 'orange' lights.
Is there anything obvious I should be looking at with these cars ?
They look pretty good value, especially compared to similiarly priced 993s...
Roughly what mileage should things like suspension and clutch be changed ?
How much would it cost to convert to the 'clear corner' type indicators ?
And how much is a standard set of 18inch alloys and tyres going to set me back ?
Any other obvious gotchas ?
Obviously I'm aware I should get the best car I can afford, but some of these lower priced cars look a great deal, especially when I think they cant slip much lower, and hence be pretty depreciation proof...
Can anyone thnk of a really good idea why I shouldnt get something at this end of the 996 market, rather than say a late 99 with maybe 50k miles on it at nearer £30-35k ?
These all seem to be early cars, 98/99, 70kish miles, generally with the original alloys and 'orange' lights.
Is there anything obvious I should be looking at with these cars ?
They look pretty good value, especially compared to similiarly priced 993s...
Roughly what mileage should things like suspension and clutch be changed ?
How much would it cost to convert to the 'clear corner' type indicators ?
And how much is a standard set of 18inch alloys and tyres going to set me back ?
Any other obvious gotchas ?
Obviously I'm aware I should get the best car I can afford, but some of these lower priced cars look a great deal, especially when I think they cant slip much lower, and hence be pretty depreciation proof...
Can anyone thnk of a really good idea why I shouldnt get something at this end of the 996 market, rather than say a late 99 with maybe 50k miles on it at nearer £30-35k ?
I spent 4 months looking at 996s before I bought one. Well specced ones sold quickly whilst the 'original alloys and orange lights' seemed to stay on sale for months, even with the low prices.
Like you I thought how much to upgrade the lights, alloys, etc. Even without using original Porsche parts, the price soon shot up.
I think the sheer number of 996s on the market means buyers can be more 'choosey'. I was certainly able to find the right car at the right price.
My advice, look around, go for condition over age, get a good spec.
Like you I thought how much to upgrade the lights, alloys, etc. Even without using original Porsche parts, the price soon shot up.
I think the sheer number of 996s on the market means buyers can be more 'choosey'. I was certainly able to find the right car at the right price.
My advice, look around, go for condition over age, get a good spec.
I'd figured about ballpark £2k to fit some reasonable 18 inchers and clear corners, or am I way wide of the mark ?
I've already seen a fair few cars, and have a budget upto £35k, but it just occurs to me, that it might be better to get a car that is cheaper, and hence fallen near to the bottom of its depreciation curve...
ie, an 8 year old car at 23/24k or a 6 year old at 30+k are both going to be worth pretty much the same in 2-3 years time, and the saving would let me get a nice exhaust etc... or just keep the other half happier...
Surely we wont be seeing 996s for £15k in 2- 3 years time....
I've already seen a fair few cars, and have a budget upto £35k, but it just occurs to me, that it might be better to get a car that is cheaper, and hence fallen near to the bottom of its depreciation curve...
ie, an 8 year old car at 23/24k or a 6 year old at 30+k are both going to be worth pretty much the same in 2-3 years time, and the saving would let me get a nice exhaust etc... or just keep the other half happier...
Surely we wont be seeing 996s for £15k in 2- 3 years time....
Design 911 are asking £799 for a clear light pack and £1695 for 18" Sport Design wheels. With VAT that's £2960, don't think it includes tyres either.
I've seen wheels cheaper on ebay, but clear lights seem to be sought after and always get a good price.
I had a similar budget to you, but whilst I'm willing to accept some depreciation, I don't want to take a massive hit. So I went for a cheaper car that should be nearer the bottom of the depreciation curve.
As far as extras I reckon an OPC warranty is worth spending the money on.
I've seen wheels cheaper on ebay, but clear lights seem to be sought after and always get a good price.
I had a similar budget to you, but whilst I'm willing to accept some depreciation, I don't want to take a massive hit. So I went for a cheaper car that should be nearer the bottom of the depreciation curve.
As far as extras I reckon an OPC warranty is worth spending the money on.
At the risk of broken record again.....
1. Buy the best you can afford.
2. Buy the OPC warranty.
3. See 1 and 2.
I paid over the odds for my 2000 996C2 TipS from an OPC fifteen months ago. It's had four fairly major visits to OPC, for RMS, Header Tank, and for an electrical fault which eventually got cured by a new DMS and Alarm Control System. All sorted under warranty without a problem. If it wasn't for the warranty I would be well on the way to £10k down by now.
Remember - there is NO such thing as a CHEAP Porsche. Either pay for the right car, or pay to fix up a duffer. I know which I think is best.
The OPC warranty is VITAL and is the reason why there is such a disparity between say a 98 car with no warranty and a 2001 car with the OPC warranty. With labour rates at £130 an hour, and a new engine at £11k ish, do you really think you would enjoy a car which you couldn't afford to repair if it threw something expensive?
>> Edited by vesuvius996 on Friday 31st March 18:37
1. Buy the best you can afford.
2. Buy the OPC warranty.
3. See 1 and 2.
I paid over the odds for my 2000 996C2 TipS from an OPC fifteen months ago. It's had four fairly major visits to OPC, for RMS, Header Tank, and for an electrical fault which eventually got cured by a new DMS and Alarm Control System. All sorted under warranty without a problem. If it wasn't for the warranty I would be well on the way to £10k down by now.
Remember - there is NO such thing as a CHEAP Porsche. Either pay for the right car, or pay to fix up a duffer. I know which I think is best.
The OPC warranty is VITAL and is the reason why there is such a disparity between say a 98 car with no warranty and a 2001 car with the OPC warranty. With labour rates at £130 an hour, and a new engine at £11k ish, do you really think you would enjoy a car which you couldn't afford to repair if it threw something expensive?
>> Edited by vesuvius996 on Friday 31st March 18:37
I just picked up my 1998 C2 tipt from kenny dunn in edinburgh today. it has 62K with full & i mean full OPC history, last service came in at £5026. that included new turbo 2 alloys and tyres, new brakes discs & pads all round and a list of other parts that looks like he was trying to build a new motor.
I got it for £27k, which included a minor porsche service , 6 months warenty, number plate transfer & air bag deactivator.
All in all I am well chuffed with it.
PS I would like to thank you guys on this forum & 911virgin for supplying the info & confidence to buy a car like that.
keep up the good work.
I got it for £27k, which included a minor porsche service , 6 months warenty, number plate transfer & air bag deactivator.
All in all I am well chuffed with it.
PS I would like to thank you guys on this forum & 911virgin for supplying the info & confidence to buy a car like that.
keep up the good work.
Absolutely agree , Vesuvius.
Lets face it , a lot of us are in the Porsche market cos we love an incredible , accomplished sports car , but wouldn't be able to afford the day to day costs that come with most of these cars (and they are all Italian!)
We therefore have found a way thru .... The Porsche is fabulously reliable for what it does , And if the odds stack against you , the opc warranty is there to help you sleep that night.
Therefore .....
Spend as much as you can possibly afford to get the best condition,
Have it checked in an OPC prior to handing over the wads,
Then stick it on an opc warranty.
Then drive d'arse off it !!!!!
>> Edited by ballcock on Friday 31st March 19:47
>> Edited by ballcock on Friday 31st March 22:33
Lets face it , a lot of us are in the Porsche market cos we love an incredible , accomplished sports car , but wouldn't be able to afford the day to day costs that come with most of these cars (and they are all Italian!)
We therefore have found a way thru .... The Porsche is fabulously reliable for what it does , And if the odds stack against you , the opc warranty is there to help you sleep that night.
Therefore .....
Spend as much as you can possibly afford to get the best condition,
Have it checked in an OPC prior to handing over the wads,
Then stick it on an opc warranty.
Then drive d'arse off it !!!!!
>> Edited by ballcock on Friday 31st March 19:47
>> Edited by ballcock on Friday 31st March 22:33
nimbus said:
Can anyone thnk of a really good idea why I shouldnt get something at this end of the 996 market, rather than say a late 99 with maybe 50k miles on it at nearer £30-35k ?
The only concern I would have, is, given all the advice from 996 owners about getting a warranty, what will happen when the car gets to 9 years old and you can't get a Porsche warranty any longer?
vesuvius996 said:
At the risk of broken record again.....
1. Buy the best you can afford.
2. Buy the OPC warranty.
3. See 1 and 2.
I paid over the odds for my 2000 996C2 TipS from an OPC fifteen months ago. It's had four fairly major visits to OPC, for RMS, Header Tank, and for an electrical fault which eventually got cured by a new DMS and Alarm Control System. All sorted under warranty without a problem. If it wasn't for the warranty I would be well on the way to £10k down by now.
Remember - there is NO such thing as a CHEAP Porsche. Either pay for the right car, or pay to fix up a duffer. I know which I think is best.
The OPC warranty is VITAL and is the reason why there is such a disparity between say a 98 car with no warranty and a 2001 car with the OPC warranty. With labour rates at £130 an hour, and a new engine at £11k ish, do you really think you would enjoy a car which you couldn't afford to repair if it threw something expensive?
There you go - why not to buy a 996 in a couple of paragraphs - you paid "over the odds" for your 996 and it has still had four major visits to OPC for circa £10k of work
I'm onto 911 number 6 and all of them wouldn't add up to that - in fact the 993 that I had and did 30k miles in wouldn't have come to 20% of that.
You have to question buying a 996 with posts like this.
Sorry vesuvius...but you do
964RS said:
At the risk of broken record again.....
1. Buy the best you can afford.
2. Buy the OPC warranty.
3. See 1 and 2.
I paid over the odds for my 2000 996C2 TipS from an OPC fifteen months ago. It's had four fairly major visits to OPC, for RMS, Header Tank, and for an electrical fault which eventually got cured by a new DMS and Alarm Control System. All sorted under warranty without a problem. If it wasn't for the warranty I would be well on the way to £10k down by now.
Remember - there is NO such thing as a CHEAP Porsche. Either pay for the right car, or pay to fix up a duffer. I know which I think is best.
The OPC warranty is VITAL and is the reason why there is such a disparity between say a 98 car with no warranty and a 2001 car with the OPC warranty. With labour rates at £130 an hour, and a new engine at £11k ish, do you really think you would enjoy a car which you couldn't afford to repair if it threw something expensive?
There you go - why not to buy a 996 in a couple of paragraphs - you paid "over the odds" for your 996 and it has still had four major visits to OPC for circa £10k of work
I'm onto 911 number 6 and all of them wouldn't add up to that - in fact the 993 that I had and did 30k miles in wouldn't have come to 20% of that.
You have to question buying a 996 with posts like this.
Sorry vesuvius...but you do
But that 20% all came out of your pocket ...
ballcock said:
But that 20% all came out of your pocket ...
True ballcock but it was just general maintenance stuff - you either have to be very lucky with your 996 or have very deep pockets I think, which is a real shame. I just hope its a blip and the 997 does not go the same way as I might then get one in 3/4 years time, as a daily driver, if it turns out to be a bit more reliable....
To be honest , I just threw in that last comment just to get things heated up a little ... And to be fair to you , your response was very measured.
However , my friend and I have been driving water cooled porsches for 6 years between us now , with not one reliability issue between us .
Obviously , any high performance car is going to have , at least some issues , and people mostly post on this web site when there IS an issue with their car.
Nobody is doubting that the 993 is fantastically bulletproof ... My worry is that the newest of them are now getting on for 10 years old. I don't want a car that may have a top end re-build , or other issues that cannot be avoided as a car ages ... I may have to deal with an RMS issue at some stage. The OPC will pay for it though.
However , my friend and I have been driving water cooled porsches for 6 years between us now , with not one reliability issue between us .
Obviously , any high performance car is going to have , at least some issues , and people mostly post on this web site when there IS an issue with their car.
Nobody is doubting that the 993 is fantastically bulletproof ... My worry is that the newest of them are now getting on for 10 years old. I don't want a car that may have a top end re-build , or other issues that cannot be avoided as a car ages ... I may have to deal with an RMS issue at some stage. The OPC will pay for it though.
And that, sir, is my point entirely.
Aside from tyres and routine service, my 996 has not cost me a BRASS RAZOO to run. And I accept I paid maybe £3k more than private price to buy from OPC, but hey, with a FPSH and a full year OPC warranty my car is STILL WORTH £3k MORE than a private car with no protection.
Total cost of ownership is the same, and I can sleep at night without having to worry about problems.
Fair point re the ten year warranty though - when mine gets to eight or nine years old I will trade it for a newer one....
>> Edited by vesuvius996 on Saturday 1st April 13:30
Aside from tyres and routine service, my 996 has not cost me a BRASS RAZOO to run. And I accept I paid maybe £3k more than private price to buy from OPC, but hey, with a FPSH and a full year OPC warranty my car is STILL WORTH £3k MORE than a private car with no protection.
Total cost of ownership is the same, and I can sleep at night without having to worry about problems.
Fair point re the ten year warranty though - when mine gets to eight or nine years old I will trade it for a newer one....
>> Edited by vesuvius996 on Saturday 1st April 13:30
vesuvius996 said:
Aside from tyres and routine service, my 996 has not cost me a BRASS RAZOO to run.
Not sure what a brass razoo is
, but your car has cost you tyres, routine service AND the additional £750 a year warranty cost. I recognise that this represents the insurance that lets you sleep well at night but I don't consider it a negligible cost - if the car had a bullet-proof reputation then you wouldn't need it. Then and again, if the model had a bullet-proof reputation then it would have depreciated more slowly and cost you more to buy, so an element of swings and roundabouts.Nel. Good points well made, but not 100% sure I agree - £15 a week for the warranty is only three packs of cigs or a curry - not bad value for money.
There is, I would suggest, no such thing as a "bulletproof" car - any mechanical device can develop a fault. A Patek Philippe watch has the ulimate reputation for hand built quality, but it didn't stop one I know managing to mangle its innards for no reason after the unfortunate owner had just shelled out £30k for it!!
I guess what I am driving at is that I can afford to run the 996 as a luxury indulgence, so long as I know the costs up front (within reason!)
So I am prepared to wear...
1. Interest on capital
2. Depreciation
3. Servicing and tyres etc
4. £15 a week warranty
5. £20 a week insurance
6. Other sundries like fuel and wax
I am not able to wear
a. Major mechanical failures
b. Minor gremlins which take a week to fathom out becuase they are intermittent.
Just my tuppence worth, but if you want (as I do) to run what was a £70k car new, for what amounts to a few quid more than BMW money then you need to be prepared to do it in such a way as to hedge the risks. Sure, if you are brave then buy a leggy 996 for £25k with no warranty, but be aware that if the engine goes then it's still an £11k job, even though that's almost half what you paid for the car!
Each to their own, natch. I'd rather spend £600 a month and do it right, rather than £400 a month and risk (albeit it's an unlikely one) ending up with a car I can't drive and can't afford to repair, which of course is much more expensive in the long term in terms of money and tears!
My 996 has had some issues, but at the end of the day they've all been sorted out free of charge without any argument. That, for me, is priceless, and I would suggest that when I come to sell, a fistful of invoices from the same dealer from day one, a fully stamped up book and a boxfresh 12 month OPC warranty will allow me to recoup a significant proportion of my extra outlay over the time I have owned the car.
I tend to look at total cost of ownership over a period, taking into account the factors above.
Anyway, time for a blat, the sun's out
>> Edited by vesuvius996 on Saturday 1st April 14:57
There is, I would suggest, no such thing as a "bulletproof" car - any mechanical device can develop a fault. A Patek Philippe watch has the ulimate reputation for hand built quality, but it didn't stop one I know managing to mangle its innards for no reason after the unfortunate owner had just shelled out £30k for it!!
I guess what I am driving at is that I can afford to run the 996 as a luxury indulgence, so long as I know the costs up front (within reason!)
So I am prepared to wear...
1. Interest on capital
2. Depreciation
3. Servicing and tyres etc
4. £15 a week warranty
5. £20 a week insurance
6. Other sundries like fuel and wax
I am not able to wear
a. Major mechanical failures
b. Minor gremlins which take a week to fathom out becuase they are intermittent.
Just my tuppence worth, but if you want (as I do) to run what was a £70k car new, for what amounts to a few quid more than BMW money then you need to be prepared to do it in such a way as to hedge the risks. Sure, if you are brave then buy a leggy 996 for £25k with no warranty, but be aware that if the engine goes then it's still an £11k job, even though that's almost half what you paid for the car!
Each to their own, natch. I'd rather spend £600 a month and do it right, rather than £400 a month and risk (albeit it's an unlikely one) ending up with a car I can't drive and can't afford to repair, which of course is much more expensive in the long term in terms of money and tears!
My 996 has had some issues, but at the end of the day they've all been sorted out free of charge without any argument. That, for me, is priceless, and I would suggest that when I come to sell, a fistful of invoices from the same dealer from day one, a fully stamped up book and a boxfresh 12 month OPC warranty will allow me to recoup a significant proportion of my extra outlay over the time I have owned the car.
I tend to look at total cost of ownership over a period, taking into account the factors above.
Anyway, time for a blat, the sun's out
>> Edited by vesuvius996 on Saturday 1st April 14:57
Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff