Why arent I dead?
Discussion
I passed my test in 1981, and have been hooning around ever since. I had two crunches in the eighties, both of which were very much not my fault (I was stationary for one of them, and a guy ran a red light as I was crossing a junction for the other), and a third that was my fault when I was chasing a Metro in an Ital and ran out of talent, albeit a very minor crunch. Also, I was young and inexperienced back then.
Apart from backing off my drive about two years ago and scraping a bumper, I havent had an accident for over 20 years (spinning the Bentley at a sprint meeting and hitting the tyre wall also not included, but that wasnt on the road anyway). My license is also clean.
Now, my current little shopping trolley tops out at about 130mph, and it gets maxxed several times a day, every day, as I am out & about on the road with my job. I drive hard & fast on the open road, but only when there are no other vehicles in the vicinity (unless overtaking of course, when the vehicle being passed is naturally in the vicinity). In 30-40-50 zones I rarely exceed the limit, hardly ever in fact, and will often be well under them too. But on the open road I have little regard for them, depending upon the conditions, the conditions will always be the defining factor for me, not an arbitary number.
I am not a very good driver, probably average or below average, I think I know my limits and will not press beyond them or try to keep up with A.N.Other when pressing on for no other reason than the sheer hell of it. I have had a bit of proper tuition and hold a race licence, but I am no driving god. I know when I get things wrong and when I could have done better, like lifting off when your brain is screaming 'dont lift', but you do, and balance is lost, but no harm done because I wasnt on the edge anyway.
Anyway, what I want to know is this. As I hoon about, driving hard & fast as my default mode, how come I aint dead, not so much as a scratch, and havent had any crunches or near misses (apart from avoiding Doris in her Micra as she takes the wrong line whilst pootling around town) and a clean licence. I reckon that this is normal for the keen driver and car enthusiast, so what am I (we) doing wrong to have survived without event despite routinely travelling very quickly?
Let the flaming commence.
Bet I have a prang or get some points tomorrow now i've posted this
Apart from backing off my drive about two years ago and scraping a bumper, I havent had an accident for over 20 years (spinning the Bentley at a sprint meeting and hitting the tyre wall also not included, but that wasnt on the road anyway). My license is also clean.
Now, my current little shopping trolley tops out at about 130mph, and it gets maxxed several times a day, every day, as I am out & about on the road with my job. I drive hard & fast on the open road, but only when there are no other vehicles in the vicinity (unless overtaking of course, when the vehicle being passed is naturally in the vicinity). In 30-40-50 zones I rarely exceed the limit, hardly ever in fact, and will often be well under them too. But on the open road I have little regard for them, depending upon the conditions, the conditions will always be the defining factor for me, not an arbitary number.
I am not a very good driver, probably average or below average, I think I know my limits and will not press beyond them or try to keep up with A.N.Other when pressing on for no other reason than the sheer hell of it. I have had a bit of proper tuition and hold a race licence, but I am no driving god. I know when I get things wrong and when I could have done better, like lifting off when your brain is screaming 'dont lift', but you do, and balance is lost, but no harm done because I wasnt on the edge anyway.
Anyway, what I want to know is this. As I hoon about, driving hard & fast as my default mode, how come I aint dead, not so much as a scratch, and havent had any crunches or near misses (apart from avoiding Doris in her Micra as she takes the wrong line whilst pootling around town) and a clean licence. I reckon that this is normal for the keen driver and car enthusiast, so what am I (we) doing wrong to have survived without event despite routinely travelling very quickly?
Let the flaming commence.
Bet I have a prang or get some points tomorrow now i've posted this
Balmoral Green said:
I passed my test in 1981, and have been hooning around ever since. I had two crunches in the eighties, both of which were very much not my fault (I was stationary for one of them, and a guy ran a red light as I was crossing a junction for the other), and a third that was my fault when I was chasing a Metro in an Ital and ran out of talent, albeit a very minor crunch. Also, I was young and inexperienced back then.
Apart from backing off my drive about two years ago and scraping a bumper, I havent had an accident for over 20 years (spinning the Bentley at a sprint meeting and hitting the tyre wall also not included, but that wasnt on the road anyway). My license is also clean.
Now, my current little shopping trolley tops out at about 130mph, and it gets maxxed several times a day, every day, as I am out & about on the road with my job. I drive hard & fast on the open road, but only when there are no other vehicles in the vicinity (unless overtaking of course, when the vehicle being passed is naturally in the vicinity). In 30-40-50 zones I rarely exceed the limit, hardly ever in fact, and will often be well under them too. But on the open road I have little regard for them, depending upon the conditions, the conditions will always be the defining factor for me, not an arbitary number.
I am not a very good driver, probably average or below average, I think I know my limits and will not press beyond them or try to keep up with A.N.Other when pressing on for no other reason than the sheer hell of it. I have had a bit of proper tuition and hold a race licence, but I am no driving god. I know when I get things wrong and when I could have done better, like lifting off when your brain is screaming 'dont lift', but you do, and balance is lost, but no harm done because I wasnt on the edge anyway.
Anyway, what I want to know is this. As I hoon about, driving hard & fast as my default mode, how come I aint dead, not so much as a scratch, and havent had any crunches or near misses (apart from avoiding Doris in her Micra as she takes the wrong line whilst pootling around town) and a clean licence. I reckon that this is normal for the keen driver and car enthusiast, so what am I (we) doing wrong to have survived without event despite routinely travelling very quickly?
Let the flaming commence.
Bet I have a prang or get some points tomorrow now i've posted this
It's purely a matter of luck, you should know that by now.
...and if you think I really believe that....
Carry on along those lines - it sounds OK to me.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
I think its because your a better driver than you say you are,a lot of drivers out there think that they are the bees knees and are too over confident which in turn leads some to be aggressive,tail gatting etc...the fact that you say you are aware of your standard of driving probably makes you a better driver as you show more care maybe.
I myself do probably more miles than most on here and although i can be a driver that is in between fast and slow i am defensive,looking through hedges and such to see whats coming from side turnings,this i feel makes me a good driver,but not the best as on a track there are more drivers better tuned in than myself..ive been driving nearly 30 years now and ime still here(again i could be on the phone to the insurers tomorrow lol)so maybe a little bit of care coupled with the odd hoon is the way to go.
There is luck to consider aswell.
Flame suit on
I did post this on the P&P but its gone off into orbit
I myself do probably more miles than most on here and although i can be a driver that is in between fast and slow i am defensive,looking through hedges and such to see whats coming from side turnings,this i feel makes me a good driver,but not the best as on a track there are more drivers better tuned in than myself..ive been driving nearly 30 years now and ime still here(again i could be on the phone to the insurers tomorrow lol)so maybe a little bit of care coupled with the odd hoon is the way to go.
There is luck to consider aswell.
Flame suit on
I did post this on the P&P but its gone off into orbit
,used to make the palm of my hand hurt.BG,
You're clearly doing something right! First off, in 30's 40's and 50's I agree with you. Never speed in those. It's just not worth it.
I consider myself to be in a very similar boat to your good self. No road accidents in 16 years of driving, but one minor indescretion at the Nurburgring where I ran out of talent! However, I do "enjoy" my 2 and 4 wheel vehicles as often as possible.
However, this is out of town, on the open road, and of course when safe to do so. I ride my bike at least once a week, and I can't remember the last time I didn't hit 140+ on an outing. It's just a regular occurance.
It is possible to do those kind of speeds in total safety and without risk to other road users. There is just a right time and a place, and one is required to choose those carefully.
I enjoy what is essentially the art of making swift progress in or on a vehicle. It makes me mad that I can be doing this in complete safety, yet some bureaucrat in Whitehall has herded me in with the lowest common denominators in this country, and I stand to lose my freedom should I be detected. Makes me sad.
I'm off for a Glenmorangie!
Matt
You're clearly doing something right! First off, in 30's 40's and 50's I agree with you. Never speed in those. It's just not worth it.
I consider myself to be in a very similar boat to your good self. No road accidents in 16 years of driving, but one minor indescretion at the Nurburgring where I ran out of talent! However, I do "enjoy" my 2 and 4 wheel vehicles as often as possible.
However, this is out of town, on the open road, and of course when safe to do so. I ride my bike at least once a week, and I can't remember the last time I didn't hit 140+ on an outing. It's just a regular occurance.
It is possible to do those kind of speeds in total safety and without risk to other road users. There is just a right time and a place, and one is required to choose those carefully.
I enjoy what is essentially the art of making swift progress in or on a vehicle. It makes me mad that I can be doing this in complete safety, yet some bureaucrat in Whitehall has herded me in with the lowest common denominators in this country, and I stand to lose my freedom should I be detected. Makes me sad.
I'm off for a Glenmorangie!
Matt
This thread raises a number of really important issues.
* 'Official' road safety theory would suggest that successful 'fast drivers' ARE just lucky. It's even going to be true in some cases - there are people out there who drive way past safe limits, and 'get away with it' through luck. The luck might last a lifetime, or it might not. But clearly there are far too many successful fast drivers for ALL of them to get away with it by luck.
* It'd probably be impossible to find an inexperienced safe fast driver. So this thread risks sending a very dangerous message to inexperienced drivers. As Vonhosen keeps telling us - the driving test does not equip anyone for fast driving. So if you're young and inexperienced and reading this:
YOU HAVE TO LEARN TO WALK BEFORE YOU CAN RUN!
* The gap between the inexperienced driver and the experienced driver is, well, experience of course. But the quality of experience, the rate of learning and the eventual standards achieved are all variables. Driving faster seems to increase the rate of learning and seems to raise the eventual standards. There's a discussion of this point on: www.safespeed.org.uk/problem2.html
* Overconfidence is something that is likely to mark an unsafe fast driver. Anyone who tells us that they can drive fast 'because they are brilliant'; 'because they have fast reactions'; 'because they know all they need to know'; or 'because they have better brakes' should be regarded with extreme suspicion.
* Risky behaviour can generally be recognised by 'surprises' and by 'near misses'. Learning from surprises and near misses is one important way that experience grows. Equally surprises and near misses are a useful standard to judge a driver by. You can't generally judge by crashes because crashes are too infequent, and anyway having a crash might make it too late to learn.
That's enough to be going on with...
* 'Official' road safety theory would suggest that successful 'fast drivers' ARE just lucky. It's even going to be true in some cases - there are people out there who drive way past safe limits, and 'get away with it' through luck. The luck might last a lifetime, or it might not. But clearly there are far too many successful fast drivers for ALL of them to get away with it by luck.
* It'd probably be impossible to find an inexperienced safe fast driver. So this thread risks sending a very dangerous message to inexperienced drivers. As Vonhosen keeps telling us - the driving test does not equip anyone for fast driving. So if you're young and inexperienced and reading this:
YOU HAVE TO LEARN TO WALK BEFORE YOU CAN RUN! * The gap between the inexperienced driver and the experienced driver is, well, experience of course. But the quality of experience, the rate of learning and the eventual standards achieved are all variables. Driving faster seems to increase the rate of learning and seems to raise the eventual standards. There's a discussion of this point on: www.safespeed.org.uk/problem2.html
* Overconfidence is something that is likely to mark an unsafe fast driver. Anyone who tells us that they can drive fast 'because they are brilliant'; 'because they have fast reactions'; 'because they know all they need to know'; or 'because they have better brakes' should be regarded with extreme suspicion.
* Risky behaviour can generally be recognised by 'surprises' and by 'near misses'. Learning from surprises and near misses is one important way that experience grows. Equally surprises and near misses are a useful standard to judge a driver by. You can't generally judge by crashes because crashes are too infequent, and anyway having a crash might make it too late to learn.
That's enough to be going on with...
safespeed said:
This thread raises a number of really important issues.
* 'Official' road safety theory would suggest that successful 'fast drivers' ARE just lucky. It's even going to be true in some cases - there are people out there who drive way past safe limits, and 'get away with it' through luck. The luck might last a lifetime, or it might not. But clearly there are far too many successful fast drivers for ALL of them to get away with it by luck.
* It'd probably be impossible to find an inexperienced safe fast driver. So this thread risks sending a very dangerous message to inexperienced drivers. As Vonhosen keeps telling us - the driving test does not equip anyone for fast driving. So if you're young and inexperienced and reading this:
* The gap between the inexperienced driver and the experienced driver is, well, experience of course. But the quality of experience, the rate of learning and the eventual standards achieved are all variables. Driving faster seems to increase the rate of learning and seems to raise the eventual standards. There's a discussion of this point on: www.safespeed.org.uk/problem2.html
* Overconfidence is something that is likely to mark an unsafe fast driver. Anyone who tells us that they can drive fast 'because they are brilliant'; 'because they have fast reactions'; 'because they know all they need to know'; or 'because they have better brakes' should be regarded with extreme suspicion.
* Risky behaviour can generally be recognised by 'surprises' and by 'near misses'. Learning from surprises and near misses is one important way that experience grows. Equally surprises and near misses are a useful standard to judge a driver by. You can't generally judge by crashes because crashes are too infequent, and anyway having a crash might make it too late to learn.
That's enough to be going on with...
Totally agree with that
I have some younger friends that have scared the crap out of me and i will not get back into the passenger seat with them. On several occassions its only because of the "good" driver coming in the opposite direction that has saved my life. I'm sure that they think they are imortal.
Balmoral Green said:
I passed my test in 1981, and have been hooning around ever since. I had two crunches in the eighties, both of which were very much not my fault (I was stationary for one of them, and a guy ran a red light as I was crossing a junction for the other), and a third that was my fault when I was chasing a Metro in an Ital and ran out of talent, albeit a very minor crunch. Also, I was young and inexperienced back then.
Apart from backing off my drive about two years ago and scraping a bumper, I havent had an accident for over 20 years (spinning the Bentley at a sprint meeting and hitting the tyre wall also not included, but that wasnt on the road anyway). My license is also clean.
Now, my current little shopping trolley tops out at about 130mph, and it gets maxxed several times a day, every day, as I am out & about on the road with my job. I drive hard & fast on the open road, but only when there are no other vehicles in the vicinity (unless overtaking of course, when the vehicle being passed is naturally in the vicinity). In 30-40-50 zones I rarely exceed the limit, hardly ever in fact, and will often be well under them too. But on the open road I have little regard for them, depending upon the conditions, the conditions will always be the defining factor for me, not an arbitary number.
I am not a very good driver, probably average or below average, I think I know my limits and will not press beyond them or try to keep up with A.N.Other when pressing on for no other reason than the sheer hell of it. I have had a bit of proper tuition and hold a race licence, but I am no driving god. I know when I get things wrong and when I could have done better, like lifting off when your brain is screaming 'dont lift', but you do, and balance is lost, but no harm done because I wasnt on the edge anyway.
Anyway, what I want to know is this. As I hoon about, driving hard & fast as my default mode, how come I aint dead, not so much as a scratch, and havent had any crunches or near misses (apart from avoiding Doris in her Micra as she takes the wrong line whilst pootling around town) and a clean licence. I reckon that this is normal for the keen driver and car enthusiast, so what am I (we) doing wrong to have survived without event despite routinely travelling very quickly?
Let the flaming commence.
Bet I have a prang or get some points tomorrow now i've posted this
Ist a bit like that poem which did the rounds a bit back ...ist wonder our age group survive our child hood..
You know the - when we were kids.. drinking water from a hose pipe... making bogey carts und hooning it up.. playing on swings ..
That bit of rope tied to a tree ..und the simple plank of wood atttaached to chains on the park ... und we used to swing as high as we could... und we played conkers ... und tig without any dire problem either..Oh und ja... we had school sport day und lives were not ruined through competition und not winning race...or making to school team either... nor was red ink on book regarded as "negative criticism" Ist not luck.. ist that basic human instinct which kick in und prevent us from doing the really daft.
There are the exception to the rule.. ist law of averages ..... but by und large... most of us conform to the average competence level for survival. However, by lowering the competence levels ... dunbing down soiceity .. making exams easier to pass because "ist cruel to fail one" ...removing the competiotive edge und making legislation which fail to make people think for selves und be responsible....we reap what we sow.... a society which refuse to act responsibly und which ist more accident prone than previous generations as they lose that basic instinct... of recognising und reacting to potential threat....
Balmoral Green said:BG,
Anyway, what I want to know is this. As I hoon about, driving hard & fast as my default mode, how come I aint dead, not so much as a scratch, and havent had any crunches or near misses (apart from avoiding Doris in her Micra as she takes the wrong line whilst pootling around town) and a clean licence. I reckon that this is normal for the keen driver and car enthusiast, so what am I (we) doing wrong to have survived without event despite routinely travelling very quickly?
It goes without saying that what you have been doing is really, REALLY bad. Probably evil, in fact.
It has been discovered that Speed Kills, and you are no exception to that law of nature.
This leads us to the logical conclusion that, in fact, you must be dead.
Can you prove that you are still alive?
>> Edited by flemke on Saturday 1st April 12:26
I feel the same way. (About driving, I mean, not metrosexuals, whatever they are!).
I think driving is immeasureably safe. I think there are no statistics to show otherwise. I've hooned and teararsed everywhere I go for decades. I've never made car to car contact outside of a carpark. I've had 2 bad prangs, one when driving a 26 ton concrete mixer, and one when driving a 3 wheeled skinny-tyred device that had about 200bhp per ton. (A combination shared by few others, methinks
) i've never involved anyone else in any of my misdemeanours.
Everybody except the housebound and hospitalized are road users. Every single peron who steps outside the house is a road user. The baby in the womb is a road user. The deceased on his final journey to the crem/cemetery is a road user. In other words, before you enter into this world and after you have left you are still a road user.
In an average day, how many individual useages of the road have been made, from the woman walking round to the neighbours for a chat to the long distance lorry driver? How many individual usuages of the highwy have ben mad? It might be impossible to calculate, but it will be in millions and millions, day after day after day. In a year you will have a figure of billions, yet the number who come a cropper measure in the low thousands. I’ve always said, in a year more than 99.9% of the population will not have been injured.
So just how come we’re hounded as we are? We in the UK are the safest drivers in the world yet we get hounded.
I only know 2 people who have ben killed or seriously injured in an RTA. A chap at work who I knew vaguely, was killed in Ireland, and my father had a serious RTA in 1960 when two drunken joyriders in a stolen car smashed into him. They were both killed.
You’d think, if the roads were as dangerous as some claim, you’d think at the age of 47 I’d know of more people killed or hurt than that, wouldn’t you?
(Other than myself, when I smashed myself up in a Triking, I can't think of one friend, relative, acquaintance or colleague who has hurt himself out on the roads.)
>> Edited by heebeegeetee on Saturday 1st April 12:44
I think driving is immeasureably safe. I think there are no statistics to show otherwise. I've hooned and teararsed everywhere I go for decades. I've never made car to car contact outside of a carpark. I've had 2 bad prangs, one when driving a 26 ton concrete mixer, and one when driving a 3 wheeled skinny-tyred device that had about 200bhp per ton. (A combination shared by few others, methinks
) i've never involved anyone else in any of my misdemeanours. Everybody except the housebound and hospitalized are road users. Every single peron who steps outside the house is a road user. The baby in the womb is a road user. The deceased on his final journey to the crem/cemetery is a road user. In other words, before you enter into this world and after you have left you are still a road user.
In an average day, how many individual useages of the road have been made, from the woman walking round to the neighbours for a chat to the long distance lorry driver? How many individual usuages of the highwy have ben mad? It might be impossible to calculate, but it will be in millions and millions, day after day after day. In a year you will have a figure of billions, yet the number who come a cropper measure in the low thousands. I’ve always said, in a year more than 99.9% of the population will not have been injured.
So just how come we’re hounded as we are? We in the UK are the safest drivers in the world yet we get hounded.
I only know 2 people who have ben killed or seriously injured in an RTA. A chap at work who I knew vaguely, was killed in Ireland, and my father had a serious RTA in 1960 when two drunken joyriders in a stolen car smashed into him. They were both killed.
You’d think, if the roads were as dangerous as some claim, you’d think at the age of 47 I’d know of more people killed or hurt than that, wouldn’t you?
(Other than myself, when I smashed myself up in a Triking, I can't think of one friend, relative, acquaintance or colleague who has hurt himself out on the roads.)
>> Edited by heebeegeetee on Saturday 1st April 12:44
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