Something must be done ! ! ! ! !
Discussion
This is utter madness. I didn't think it was this bad though ....
I'm 17 and i live in france with my parents. For new years my brother who lives in manchester came over for a week.
On the 30th of December me , mum , bro and dad buy some Beer/wine (30 cases beer , 40 cases wine) at a cash & carry in calais as they were closing down and were selling at a quarter of uk prices. We go to england to see family and friends and some is consumed.
We get back to france , have huge party with neigbours and a lot more is consumed.
Now on the 4th we go back to england with about 20 cases beer and 30 cases wine in back of van as we couldnt be arsed to unload it yet.
We get to customs and an officer just walks in front of us and points to a customs shed. My dad is interested in law and knows his rights regarding HM customs and excise as he's had disputes with them before. anyway my dad asks why he's being stopped and the officer won't answer he just tells him to pull into the shed. This argument goes on for about 2 mins when the officer says "look , i wont tell you why. now if you dont pull into the shed i'll arrest you for obstruction". My dad says just tell me why i've been stopped and the officer says "right , out of the vehicle i'm arresting you for obstruction". Mum drives into shed where they search vehicle , we explain beer and wine and they seem satisfied. 10 minutes later they escort us both into separate booths. We were searched and arrested for suspicion of evading excise duty.Dad aswell. I tried to explain that i was only 17 and that i wasnt old enough to buy alcohol but they didnt care.
We get to the cells at 10 am , at 7 pm our solicitor arrives and is shocked by the whole thing. We were released on bail at 1 am the following morning but they'd kept the van.We were now alone in dover at 1 am with no vehicle and we had to get back to france.
we got on a ferry as foot passengers and arrived at calais terminal. we got the bus to calais train station and arrived at 5 am. its snowing , we're freezing , it opens at 7 am .
we buy tickets to abbeville for the 1st train there 10 am. after 3 hours the train arrives and a further 2 hours leaves us at abbeville at midday.
taxi to our village (half hour) and we're home !
i have the recent judgement for the hoverspeed Vs HMCE case on my pc if anybody's interesyted.
Legal brains tell me what can be done to get ludicrous amounts of compo so that i can buy a TVR please.
cheers ,
tony.
I'm 17 and i live in france with my parents. For new years my brother who lives in manchester came over for a week.
On the 30th of December me , mum , bro and dad buy some Beer/wine (30 cases beer , 40 cases wine) at a cash & carry in calais as they were closing down and were selling at a quarter of uk prices. We go to england to see family and friends and some is consumed.
We get back to france , have huge party with neigbours and a lot more is consumed.
Now on the 4th we go back to england with about 20 cases beer and 30 cases wine in back of van as we couldnt be arsed to unload it yet.
We get to customs and an officer just walks in front of us and points to a customs shed. My dad is interested in law and knows his rights regarding HM customs and excise as he's had disputes with them before. anyway my dad asks why he's being stopped and the officer won't answer he just tells him to pull into the shed. This argument goes on for about 2 mins when the officer says "look , i wont tell you why. now if you dont pull into the shed i'll arrest you for obstruction". My dad says just tell me why i've been stopped and the officer says "right , out of the vehicle i'm arresting you for obstruction". Mum drives into shed where they search vehicle , we explain beer and wine and they seem satisfied. 10 minutes later they escort us both into separate booths. We were searched and arrested for suspicion of evading excise duty.Dad aswell. I tried to explain that i was only 17 and that i wasnt old enough to buy alcohol but they didnt care.
We get to the cells at 10 am , at 7 pm our solicitor arrives and is shocked by the whole thing. We were released on bail at 1 am the following morning but they'd kept the van.We were now alone in dover at 1 am with no vehicle and we had to get back to france.
we got on a ferry as foot passengers and arrived at calais terminal. we got the bus to calais train station and arrived at 5 am. its snowing , we're freezing , it opens at 7 am .
we buy tickets to abbeville for the 1st train there 10 am. after 3 hours the train arrives and a further 2 hours leaves us at abbeville at midday.
taxi to our village (half hour) and we're home !
i have the recent judgement for the hoverspeed Vs HMCE case on my pc if anybody's interesyted.
Legal brains tell me what can be done to get ludicrous amounts of compo so that i can buy a TVR please.
cheers ,
tony.
is it a french registered van??? 'cos surely you can explain that you live in france can can buy this kind of alcahol daily from hypermarkets, and your just driving over to visit relatives...
it does seem very harsh to me, but then what do you expect, the f
king jobsworth who arrested you is probably a jumped up NCP car park attendant.
it does seem very harsh to me, but then what do you expect, the f
king jobsworth who arrested you is probably a jumped up NCP car park attendant.
monty_python said:
Pies said: HM customs and excise in some circumstances have more powers than the police,so unless they impounded something i think you wont get far
they did , they've still got the van.
Are you sure? - there was a news story about the speed with which they are disposing of impounded vehicles and their contents - adds to their revenue generation.
They shouldnt be allowed to take the van and booze but and its a big but why get arsey with them. This just gives them a reason to search / hassle and genuinely make life difficult. Most of these people are utter tossers so dont argue, do what they say, hold your tongue, explain your booze and drive off.
Ive had a car searched with a similar amount of booze and joked with the guy and gone home.
Ive had a car searched with a similar amount of booze and joked with the guy and gone home.
This is fcuking insane.
I have driven over the Poland - Belarus border then from Belarus into Russia and I had no such hassle.
These ex soviet countries are well know for corruption and it can be difficult to get over the border but I think I had an easier time than you did getting back into France.
Who do customs think they are? Fools.
Editing for sphelling...
>> Edited by Deester on Wednesday 8th January 07:49
I have driven over the Poland - Belarus border then from Belarus into Russia and I had no such hassle.
These ex soviet countries are well know for corruption and it can be difficult to get over the border but I think I had an easier time than you did getting back into France.
Who do customs think they are? Fools.
Editing for sphelling...
>> Edited by Deester on Wednesday 8th January 07:49
Stoicism is fine, but do you not have a problem with this in principle in light of the fact that C&E have been ruled against on this matter in court?
johnelliott said: The Customs may be fools, jobsworths etc, but they've got the van and the booze, and monty hasn't. I agree with gsxrblue, don't argue with these people and wind them up, just go along with them and acknowledge that they've got more power than you, and it will probably be OK
CarZee said:Stoicism is fine, but do you not have a problem with this in principle in light of the fact that C&E have been ruled against on this matter in court?
johnelliott said: The Customs may be fools, jobsworths etc, but they've got the van and the booze, and monty hasn't. I agree with gsxrblue, don't argue with these people and wind them up, just go along with them and acknowledge that they've got more power than you, and it will probably be OK
I thought the ruling was on the issue of stop and search. Previously they stopped whoever they felt like but didn't the court rule that they had to have a justifiable reason from now on - i.e. they had to have received information leading them to believe someone was breaking the law etc. They lost the right (or rather they never had it, but the court confirmed this) to stop people at random. They might feel safe using "grief from traveller" as an excuse to take things further, which is why I'd tend to go with the silent approach suggested below.
BTW, this kind of PR makes me embarrassed to admit I used to be a customs officer. Hand-on-heart, we never treated anyone like this. It seems to be a peculiar trait of the port officers on the South Coast who, since the removal of borders from within the EU, have nothing better to do than hassle channel tourists.
If you're interested in taking it further I still work in this field, but for a corporation. I can find suitable lawyers with expertise in the area should you want to talk to one.
AF
He may have been doing his job, but as a free citizen we still require them to explain to us WHY we are requested to do as they ask - they police us by our consent after all.
If he can't come up with a reasonable explaination as to why he wanted the van, then boll*cks to him.
Have your day in court and wipe the smile of his smug face.
If he can't come up with a reasonable explaination as to why he wanted the van, then boll*cks to him.
Have your day in court and wipe the smile of his smug face.
So far we have been talking about people who have been buying large quantities of drink and tobacco for their own consumption. But would anyone like to guess how much of the above that comes through the Channel ports is destined to be sold? My guess is 75%. Must really piss the Customs people off.
John
John
johnelliott said: So far we have been talking about people who have been buying large quantities of drink and tobacco for their own consumption. But would anyone like to guess how much of the above that comes through the Channel ports is destined to be sold? My guess is 75%. Must really piss the Customs people off.
John
That doesnt make it ok to take the 25% of "genuine" booze just coz customs cant do their jobs properly.
AngusFaldo , i am interested in speaking to a couple of lawyers who specialise in this area. Any means to contact them would be greatly appreciated.
PS : to those who say "dont argue and do as they say" , what about when plod stops you ?? the first thing to say is what seems to be the problem officer ??
Plod cant just say shut up and get out of the car.
It's mental.
cheers ,
tony.
I haven't had any problems with UK customs yet, although they've stopped me three times while leaving the UK, and once driving into the UK (at Dover).
Never asked why they stopped me (it's their job obviously) and always had a nice chat with them.
It's just that they want to see, if you're getting nervous or behave otherwise suspicious.
To cure the problem, the UK should join the Schengen (sp.?) agreement, so everybody could drive in and out without even seeing a customs officer. Just like on mainland
Good luck anyway, monty! Hope you get your van back.
Bodo
Never asked why they stopped me (it's their job obviously) and always had a nice chat with them.
It's just that they want to see, if you're getting nervous or behave otherwise suspicious.
To cure the problem, the UK should join the Schengen (sp.?) agreement, so everybody could drive in and out without even seeing a customs officer. Just like on mainland
Good luck anyway, monty! Hope you get your van back.
Bodo
PS : to those who say "dont argue and do as they say" , what about when plod stops you ?? the first thing to say is what seems to be the problem officer ??
Plod cant just say shut up and get out of the car.
When plod has stopped me, yes I ask what the problem is if he refused to tell me then I would not push the point until I got arrested.
This argument goes on for about 2 mins when the officer says "look , i wont tell you why. now if you dont pull into the shed i'll arrest you for obstruction". My dad says just tell me why i've been stopped and the officer says "right , out of the vehicle i'm arresting you for obstruction".
I would have stopped arguing before 2 minutes when it was obvious he was a tosser.
Dont get me wrong I hate this as much as the next person, its just that after driving for a long time and filling the car with booze the last thing I want is to argue with C&E and risk at the least a longer delay than neccessary and at the worst is the scene you went through.
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