Gascoyne leaves Toyota
Discussion
www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=35502&PO=35502
Oh dear, I wonder if this is the start of the end for Toyota. How many seasons was he there for? One or two I cannot remember.
D
Oh dear, I wonder if this is the start of the end for Toyota. How many seasons was he there for? One or two I cannot remember.
D
I was beginning to think he'd been there a long time for his record...
Not sure McLaren would suit him considering his maverick tendancies being similar to Newey's. I'd suggest Williams but Gascoigne will want a decent salary that a works team can give and would Toyota want to supply engines to a team that will have all their secrets?
Perhaps Ferrari, depending on what Brawn and co are doing but then again, it's another commute...
Not sure McLaren would suit him considering his maverick tendancies being similar to Newey's. I'd suggest Williams but Gascoigne will want a decent salary that a works team can give and would Toyota want to supply engines to a team that will have all their secrets?
Perhaps Ferrari, depending on what Brawn and co are doing but then again, it's another commute...
telecat said:
Perhaps being a german based operation hampered their efforts somewhat? I always thought keeping the F1 team there wasn't a good idea.
I'd be interested to know your rationale, as I'm increasingly of the opinion that agglomeration (of teams around Oxford / Silverstone) is of diminishing importance.
I'm only a simple soul, spent most of my working life as a design draughtsman (with a pencil and a drawingboard ), in this time you get quite good at sorting out who's good at the job and who's not so good, and you get quite good at knowing who to respect technically. Someone I much respect worked with Mr Gascoyne for some time, and was simply amazed by his transition from draughtsman to reviered engineer, his view of Gascoyne, simply no good, but a great talker, but then I'm only a retired draughtsman !
As an "Industry" motorsport does seem to have more than it's fair share of lucky journmen and no-nothings, living very,very well on someone elses glory and knowlege.
As an "Industry" motorsport does seem to have more than it's fair share of lucky journmen and no-nothings, living very,very well on someone elses glory and knowlege.
kevin ritson said:
I'd suggest Williams but Gascoigne will want a decent salary that a works team can give and would Toyota want to supply engines to a team that will have all their secrets?
Perhaps Ferrari, depending on what Brawn and co are doing but then again, it's another commute...
You really think Gascoigne is in a position to demand a 'super salary' after spending three years with Toyota and everyone seeing them stay at the middle section of the grid???
He's shot himself in the foot. I'm sure he'll get a job, but I reckon he'll go back into a design house, not on the front lines of the F1 pit-lane.
PS: On a completely different topic, has anyone else noticed that in the pictre of the ITV-F1 team at the top of that article, that James Allen looks freakishly like Tony Blair, hands out in front of him and everything...!
>> Edited by racefan_uk on Wednesday 5th April 11:11
willibetz said:
Perhaps being a german based operation hampered their efforts somewhat? I always thought keeping the F1 team there wasn't a good idea.
I'd be interested to know your rationale, as I'm increasingly of the opinion that agglomeration (of teams around Oxford / Silverstone) is of diminishing importance.
Well the majority of teams are still here and of the exceptions only Ferrari have won GP's. Toyota has flattered to decieve and I we will have to see about Sauber-BMW.
Ravon said:
Someone I much respect worked with Mr Gascoyne for some time, and was simply amazed by his transition from draughtsman to reviered engineer, his view of Gascoyne, simply no good, but a great talker ...
As an "Industry" motorsport does seem to have more than it's fair share of lucky journmen and no-nothings, living very,very well on someone elses glory and knowlege.
But... Gascoyne was Technical Director, not an engineer. I'm not here to laud the guy, but for a no-good blarney merchant it does appear that he has a fair idea of how to organise and direct a technical team.
I'm surprised at your comment about lucky know-nothings living well in motorsport. I can't think of many industries where light-weights are more quickly exposed. After all, there aren't many industries where you benchmark against the competition every couple of weeks. Out of curiosity, to what would you (or your friend) attribute Jordan's and Renault's improved form during Gascoyne's tenure? Could it be that the more he practised, the luckier he got?
New report states that Gascoyne has been "suspended" due to a difference of opinion with senior management. Appears to be about the direction the F1 team is moving in. Looking at the teams he has previously worked for, they had a single head. (Flavio and Eddie). The management structure at Toyota looks to be more complicated since Ove Andersson left and could be a problem they cannot get over.
>> Edited by telecat on Wednesday 5th April 11:31
>> Edited by telecat on Wednesday 5th April 11:31
Although he was at Toyota for 3 seasons, season one was not his car, it was still rubbish, the next year he started to get it to perform and after swapping to Bridgestones this year and a couple of races to get it race competitive the car was podium material in Australia. I really couldn't see anyone else achieving more in the short time he was there.
telecat said:
Perhaps being a german based operation hampered their efforts somewhat? I always thought keeping the F1 team there wasn't a good idea.
I'd be interested to know your rationale, as I'm increasingly of the opinion that agglomeration (of teams around Oxford / Silverstone) is of diminishing importance.
Well the majority of teams are still here and of the exceptions only Ferrari have won GP's. Toyota has flattered to decieve and I we will have to see about Sauber-BMW.
The majority of teams are here for historical reasons (think Cosworth, March, Silverstone, post-war pool of aeronautic engineers in UK, accidents that excluded Mercedes and promoted circuit racing ahead of road racing) and have established supply chains and workforces. They aren't going to move of their own volition. But now that the DFV isn't the F1 engine of choice, why shouldn't new teams (especially those developing engines and chassis) settle and succeed elsewhere? It strikes me that integration is increasingly important, location less so.
PEOPLE: MIKE GASCOYNE
Name: Mike Gascoyne
Nationality: Great Britain
Gascoyne grew up not far from the famous Team Lotus factory at Ketteringham Hall. A bright student, he won a place at the world-famous Cambridge University in 1982 to study fluid dynamics. For the next six years Gascoyne lived the life of an academic, gaining a series of degrees and ultimately studying for a doctorate. Somehow he never quite managed to get round to writing his thesis and so he remains Mr. rather than Dr. Gascoyne.
After leaving university in the summer of 1988 he worked briefly with the Westland Helicopter company before his desire to be involved in motor racing led him to McLaren, where he joined Steve Nichols's design team at the start of 1989, working in the windtunnel at Britain's National Physical Laboratory in Teddington. At the end of the year Nichols joined Ferrari and Gascoyne moved to Tyrrell where he began to work with Dr. Harvey Postlethwaite.
His initial projects for Tyrrell were working on chassis dynamics, computer simulations and aerodynamic mapping on the revolutionary 019 chassis. These impressed Postlethwaite so much that when he moved to Sauber in June 1991 - to design the Swiss team's F1 challenger for 1993 - he lured Gascoyne to join him. Postlethwaite's spell at Sauber was very brief - he was hired after six months by Ferrari - but Gascoyne remained under contract and stayed in Switzerland working as aerodynamics engineer under Postlethwaite's replacement Nichols, the man who had originally hired him at McLaren. Nichols left before Sauber ever entered F1 but Gascoyne stayed on for the team's first season, which saw the C13 chassis score points in its debut race in South Africa and finish sixth in the Constructors' Championship, Karl Wendlinger and JJ Lehto having collected 12 points.
In October 1993 Postlethwaite asked Gascoyne to return to Tyrrell and he became chief designer under Postlethwaite's direction. The Tyrrell team was bought by British American Racing at the start of 1998 and in June that year Gascoyne departed to become chief designer at Jordan under technical director Gary Anderson. At the end of the year Anderson departed to join Stewart Grand Prix leaving Gascoyne in charge.
Shortly before the start of the 2001 season, Gascoyne became the Technical Director of the Benetton-Renault Sport team and began to build a new engineering team. It was this crew that built the successful Renault chassis of 2003, 2004 and 2005. Gascoyne however left in the summer of 20033, being hired to become technical director of Toyota in Cologne. He joined the team at the end of the year, too late to really influence the 2004 car but the Toyota TF105 is his.
Name: Mike Gascoyne
Nationality: Great Britain
Gascoyne grew up not far from the famous Team Lotus factory at Ketteringham Hall. A bright student, he won a place at the world-famous Cambridge University in 1982 to study fluid dynamics. For the next six years Gascoyne lived the life of an academic, gaining a series of degrees and ultimately studying for a doctorate. Somehow he never quite managed to get round to writing his thesis and so he remains Mr. rather than Dr. Gascoyne.
After leaving university in the summer of 1988 he worked briefly with the Westland Helicopter company before his desire to be involved in motor racing led him to McLaren, where he joined Steve Nichols's design team at the start of 1989, working in the windtunnel at Britain's National Physical Laboratory in Teddington. At the end of the year Nichols joined Ferrari and Gascoyne moved to Tyrrell where he began to work with Dr. Harvey Postlethwaite.
His initial projects for Tyrrell were working on chassis dynamics, computer simulations and aerodynamic mapping on the revolutionary 019 chassis. These impressed Postlethwaite so much that when he moved to Sauber in June 1991 - to design the Swiss team's F1 challenger for 1993 - he lured Gascoyne to join him. Postlethwaite's spell at Sauber was very brief - he was hired after six months by Ferrari - but Gascoyne remained under contract and stayed in Switzerland working as aerodynamics engineer under Postlethwaite's replacement Nichols, the man who had originally hired him at McLaren. Nichols left before Sauber ever entered F1 but Gascoyne stayed on for the team's first season, which saw the C13 chassis score points in its debut race in South Africa and finish sixth in the Constructors' Championship, Karl Wendlinger and JJ Lehto having collected 12 points.
In October 1993 Postlethwaite asked Gascoyne to return to Tyrrell and he became chief designer under Postlethwaite's direction. The Tyrrell team was bought by British American Racing at the start of 1998 and in June that year Gascoyne departed to become chief designer at Jordan under technical director Gary Anderson. At the end of the year Anderson departed to join Stewart Grand Prix leaving Gascoyne in charge.
Shortly before the start of the 2001 season, Gascoyne became the Technical Director of the Benetton-Renault Sport team and began to build a new engineering team. It was this crew that built the successful Renault chassis of 2003, 2004 and 2005. Gascoyne however left in the summer of 20033, being hired to become technical director of Toyota in Cologne. He joined the team at the end of the year, too late to really influence the 2004 car but the Toyota TF105 is his.
willibetz said:
Perhaps being a german based operation hampered their efforts somewhat? I always thought keeping the F1 team there wasn't a good idea.
I'd be interested to know your rationale, as I'm increasingly of the opinion that agglomeration (of teams around Oxford / Silverstone) is of diminishing importance.
Well the majority of teams are still here and of the exceptions only Ferrari have won GP's. Toyota has flattered to decieve and I we will have to see about Sauber-BMW.
The majority of teams are here for historical reasons (think Cosworth, March, Silverstone, post-war pool of aeronautic engineers in UK, accidents that excluded Mercedes and promoted circuit racing ahead of road racing) and have established supply chains and workforces. They aren't going to move of their own volition. But now that the DFV isn't the F1 engine of choice, why shouldn't new teams (especially those developing engines and chassis) settle and succeed elsewhere? It strikes me that integration is increasingly important, location less so.
I think the problem is with general engineering staff not prima-donnas.
Most F1 teams want people with F1 experience. No many of those in Germany.
I know of a couple of people who went to Cologne from Toyota GB. Didn't last long. Had to move out there and learn German.
If you watched the ITV feature on Toyota in 2005 you would have noticed that most of the truckies and mechanics were from eastern europe.
Add to that I heard a rumour in 2005 that Toyota were looking to set up in the UK. Frimley I believe. Info. came from someone at Mclaren.
Dear willibetz, I qualified my view by saying that I'm only a retired draughtsman, and by stating that, it goes without saying that I know very little, I just drew straight lines and the occasional circle. My friend is very smart, very immersed in F1 design, and I respect his judgement. With regard to Jordon & Renault, I'm a little too old and forgetful to remember how well Jordon did with MG as Chief Designer, but certainly Renault don't appear to have exactly fallen apart without him, unlike Williams with the loss of Newey.
Surely in your elevated position, you could look around and spot a few lucky journeymen in the industry, those guys who cream it just by birth, they are bred and brought up to believe they are superior, I'm sure you know the type I mean !
Surely in your elevated position, you could look around and spot a few lucky journeymen in the industry, those guys who cream it just by birth, they are bred and brought up to believe they are superior, I'm sure you know the type I mean !
willibetz said:
Perhaps being a german based operation hampered their efforts somewhat? I always thought keeping the F1 team there wasn't a good idea.
I'd be interested to know your rationale, as I'm increasingly of the opinion that agglomeration (of teams around Oxford / Silverstone) is of diminishing importance.
Well the majority of teams are still here and of the exceptions only Ferrari have won GP's. Toyota has flattered to decieve and I we will have to see about Sauber-BMW.
The majority of teams are here for historical reasons (think Cosworth, March, Silverstone, post-war pool of aeronautic engineers in UK, accidents that excluded Mercedes and promoted circuit racing ahead of road racing) and have established supply chains and workforces. They aren't going to move of their own volition. But now that the DFV isn't the F1 engine of choice, why shouldn't new teams (especially those developing engines and chassis) settle and succeed elsewhere? It strikes me that integration is increasingly important, location less so.
In this case I believe it is important. The teams have small but vital companies in the area that Supply parts and expertise much as a large company can produce those parts they don't seem to have the "nimbleness" of those companies to respond when a new or improved part is required. This remains a small specialised industry and cannot be shipped off to China like many others.
Ravon said:It will never cease to amaze me - the way in which people who know very little are almost invariably the quickest to pronounce and denigrate. That's not to say that your second-hand, know-nothing, opinion is wrong. But it doesn't reconcile too easily with the public domain evidence. FWIW, Gascoyne joined Jordan in June '98, shortly (perhaps, you might reasonably protest, too shortly) before their 1,2 at Spa in August.
I qualified my view by saying that I'm only a retired draughtsman, and by stating that, it goes without saying that I know very little
Ravon said:I think you may be relying rather too heavily on your self-professed humility in order to accuse me of superiority. Regardless, from my perspective as an interested follower of F1, the only people I can think of who might conceivably fit your description have the initials JV, NT and JW. In no particular order, one seems a thoroughly decent guy, one is fighting for his job, and it's easy to imagine (though I've no idea) that the third is trading heavily on his family name and connections. In no way can I see how Gascoyne fits the mold (surely, it can't just be his Oxbridge education?) but perhaps you can educate us?
Surely in your elevated position, you could look around and spot a few lucky journeymen in the industry, those guys who cream it just by birth, they are bred and brought up to believe they are superior, I'm sure you know the type I mean !
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