Tiptronic - I'll try to be polite

[colin5577]

Just came back from my local Porsche Dealer, after a trip to discuss a GT3 for next year blahblah. We got talking about the new Turbo, and I signed for one that a buddy is getting delivered in July. He's ordered Tiptronic, and when I questioned how many of the 12 997 Turbos my dealer is getting this year would be Tiptronic, I was told 'All of them'.

I had a spin in a 996 XP50 Turbo manual early last year, and couldn't contain my enthusiasm for the car. So enthused was I, that I seriously considered an order, and asked Porsche about a more lengthy test drive. They arranged a car for me for a 5-day period, and I was a ball of excitement for days leading up to my little freebie Turbo honeymoon. When the anticipated morning finally arrived, I was gutted to find that the car they had arranged for me was a Tiptronic. But - I had read in the press that the Tiptronic box really suited the Turbo blahyaddayadda, so putting a brave face on it, I headed off to be wowed by the car. I gave it back two days later, as I felt guilty keeping it from legitimate customers any longer when all the enthusiasm had been sapped from me by what I felt was a great car rendered a piece of crap by a torque converter.

I got stuck with a 996 C4 Coupe Tiptronic for a couple of months the year before last, and thought THAT was a total heap. Last week, I had a chance to renew my Turbo Tiptronic acquaintance by driving a friend's 996 Turbo Tip. It was worse than I remembered. Much worse - perhaps they don't age well.

Now I love Porsches, and have owned a few I adored. I want another. But who the hell are these guys now accounting for about 2/3rds of Porsche buyers that are opting for Tiptronic? Why aren't they buying Mercedes if the onerous task of changing gear is too much for them? And why does Porsche feel compelled to develop their cars to any degree, if the end product is going to be saddled with an automatic gearbox, automatic suspension, and a variety of traction and stability control systems?

[anniesdad]

Maybe Chris Harris was right in his article in this weeks Autocar that GT3 drivers should thank Cayenne owners for helping Porsche's profits to such an extent that they can keep rolling out the GT3 manuals? Maybe the same applies to the tiptronic box 911's/Boxsters as well? They've helped capture a market they may have otherwise lost out on?

[colin5577]

Porsche can't really play the poor mouth on this one, and whether people were buying Cayennes and Tiptronics in millions or in ones and twos, Wiedeking wouldn't put a new model within an arse's roar of production unless it could generate profit on its own. There are no halo models in the Porsche range - even the Carrera GT was expected to make a living, which is why it was never allowed to go racing. So the GT3 will be standing on its own feet, and will have had no assistance whatsoever from other models within the range. I think Harris has made an utterly irrelevant comment.

[supermono]

Phew! I was wringing my hands over this question when I got my 996 tt in January. I went manual and was pleased.

When I told the dealer I was afraid that apart from anythign else, I didn't want to squander any of the hard fought for (not to mention expensive!) 400-odd lb-ft he laughed and said "ohh there's plenty there".

Actually it was at that moment that I decided he was just desperate to sell it and that I didn't want to buy a slushbox or anything for that matter from him!

SM

[nevetas]

I bought a 911TT tiptronic. 3 weeks later lost and packet swapping to a manual.

I thought it would be like SMG in my CSL. It wasn't.

[Denis O]

"I thought it would be like SMG in my CSL. It wasn't"


What, you mean it worked.

>> Edited by Denis O on Thursday 6th April 19:12

[nevetas]

SMG is fantastic

[911addict]

Colin said "But who the hell are these guys now accounting for about 2/3rds of Porsche buyers that are opting for Tiptronic?"

I suggest that they aren't enthusiasts. Probably company cars/ bought with bonuses etc. just because they can.

Earlier this week, I passed a 996turbo driver (probably Tiptronic) and gave him a comradely nod from my 965 and he blanked me...probably too busy talking on his mobile!

BTW, before I bought my Turbo, I took a 996 tipt for a test drive- good car but a little soul-less with the fewer gears.

[dazren]

I've had a tiptronic loan car whilst my turbo is in for a service. Drive it in auto it's fine, just like driving a merc!. Now as someone who drives with my hands at 10 to 2, the tiptronic buttons on the steering wheel are in totally the wrong place, so I reverted back to driving it in auto all the time. I've driven the Ferrari F1 paddleshift and the E60 M5 SMG with paddleshift and got on fine with them. IMHO Porsche should be looking at providing their tiptronic cars with paddleshift instead of the buttons.

DAZ

>> Edited by dazren on Thursday 6th April 19:38

[ChrisW.]

The CSL SMG is fantastic.

It's just that a good manual has more tactility --- and I therefore find it the more satisfying drive.

And in fairness, getting the best from the SMG is quite long whinded process.

[nevetas]

I works well on the CSL. I dont think it would ever be the same on a GT3.

Would definatly try it though. But GT3 is just differant and needs to be stirred with a stick.

[colin5577]

Porsche are aware that they are amongst the last to the scene with a clutchless manual. They'll argue that they were waiting to develop the right system, but it's (to my mind) a measure of the contempt in which they hold the average Porsche buyer these days that we've been asked to continue accepting for so long, a gearbox that wouldn't be out of place in a 1980s Mercedes. It's a measure of the contempt the average Porsche buyer deserves that Porsche's sales figures haven't exactly suffered as a result. Their DSG box will be along soon, which is both great news and sort of sad news, as it probably won't be that bad - meaning that manual 911s are going to get even rarer.

It's unfair to generalise, but if you buy a Tiptronic, unless you are in some way handicapped, you haven't a clue.

[maxxuk]

...and I was just starting to like this forum !!

C4 Cab Tip.

[ChrisW.]

Each to his own !

I got flamed for preferring a GT3 to a Turbo.

But I do understand why people love the Turbo ! Honest !!

[shoestring7]

Its the Merkins. Every 996 on I've seen out there has been a tip, so clearly its a big reason for Porsche to offer it.

Other than people spending their driving marooned in traffic (why buy a sportscar?) I can't think of any excuses for Brits though.

I bet the Italians have nothing to do with them..

SS7

[Denis O]

All this macho posturing; only real men drive manuals; tips are for whimps and Cab Tips are for whimp hairdressers

By the way, how much is a new clutch, every 50k and a left leg hip replacement at 45.

Have a nice day. I'm off for some open top driving with the best of both worlds gearbox

C2 Cab Tip

[maxxuk]

shoestring7 said:

I bet the Italians have nothing to do with them.. SS7

Hell...the Italians have only just got round to putting white lines on their roads, and most of them still drive Fiat 500's. What chance would they have in understanding the concept of an automatic gearbox ???

Runs for cover

[roady]

I might be wrong (normally am ) but isnt the new 997TT tip more faster than the manual?

>> Edited by roady on Friday 7th April 10:25

[Adam B]

Denis O said:

All this macho posturing; only real men drive manuals; tips are for whimps and Cab Tips are for whimp hairdressers By the way, how much is a new clutch, every 50k and a left leg hip replacement at 45.

why is it macho posturing? couldn't agree more that tips are absolute crap (esp. so in the otherwise gorgeous 996TT I drove) and have no place in a sports car (fine in a Cayenne if you want that sort of thing).

that hip replacements are a consideration for you says it all really - I just assume most 911 drivers these days are not driving enthusiasts but 40-50 somethings who buy it to be seen in / talk about to their friends while clunking about in their slushmatics.

It is depressing trying when I finally find a 997S in spec/colour that I am after only to find the previous owner spent £2k adding a power-sapping, driving experience-ruining tip

<and breathe out and relax> sorry to tip owners but that is as polite as I can be about the things

>> Edited by Adam B on Friday 7th April 10:45

[800]

Agree completely, but there is the problem.......

You look for a 996 with a non-poverty spec, in a colour other than effin silver, with a manual box, and they're like roking horse poo.

I 'compromised' and went for a Tip, because it was the right car at the right price etc., etc.

Now I deeply, deeply regret getting a Tip.

But, what do you do, loose £5-7K in trading in a Tip for a manual