First Points Ever
Discussion
After numerous close shaves I've managed to bag my first ever 3 points. Surprisingly though I'm not angry don't get me wrong I don't want them but its my own fault. My reasoning is this 40mph in a 30mph zone, residential and during the morning. Not crime of the century but careless on my part. Had I been on a NSL and been 'done' by the same margin I'd be ranting like a good un. But I think under the circumstances everyone will agree I can't complain. So I shall pay up and shut, ruined my morning though 
Problem is a lot of people are now receiving their first points after many years hassle-free driving.
My dad who is over 70 has recently received his first points/fine courtesy of a speed cam on a dual carriageway, he has been driving safely with no convictions/fault accidents in over 50 years of motoring, this kind of thing does wonders for public/police relations!
The more "normal" people who get nicked the more this relationship is straining but do the politicians/police chiefs care, or even know?
The current authorities have undermined years of goodwill for the Police and alienated a large number of people for doing no more than a few mph over, in many cases, an arbitrary limit. - something to be proud of I think!
In reality if all motorists were monitored all the time for speeding there would be no-one left (save the politicians and the other "exempts") on the roads by this time next week, due to banning under "totting-up" what a way to treat voters in a democracy!
All IMHO of course.
My dad who is over 70 has recently received his first points/fine courtesy of a speed cam on a dual carriageway, he has been driving safely with no convictions/fault accidents in over 50 years of motoring, this kind of thing does wonders for public/police relations!
The more "normal" people who get nicked the more this relationship is straining but do the politicians/police chiefs care, or even know?
The current authorities have undermined years of goodwill for the Police and alienated a large number of people for doing no more than a few mph over, in many cases, an arbitrary limit. - something to be proud of I think!
In reality if all motorists were monitored all the time for speeding there would be no-one left (save the politicians and the other "exempts") on the roads by this time next week, due to banning under "totting-up" what a way to treat voters in a democracy!
All IMHO of course.
And so the offence is devalued. Most of our high milage drivers at work just see points and fines as an occupational hazzard. i.e. there is nothing wrong with motorway points, you may just have to put your hand in your pocket once in a while. Fantastic law.
I am not saying that limits should be abandoned - and I do get slightly burnt by the flames for my support of cameras in really built up areas etc. But as the ABD are saying, if 98% of people are braking the law of the land, then how can if be a fair and just law? As has also been mentioned - if the authorities want to reduce speeds, then they would put specs cameras up - not Gatsos.
Three of our engineers got stopped a few weeks back for doing between 82 and 90 on the same stretch of the M56. 11:00am (very quiet), dry, good visibility etc. A camera had been set to maximum income mode, and simply got everyone that drove past.
As has been said at least 750 million times in the past on these threads, it is very difficult to defend the speed limits on a safety arguement, when the inforcement clearly isn't organised in that way
.
I am not saying that limits should be abandoned - and I do get slightly burnt by the flames for my support of cameras in really built up areas etc. But as the ABD are saying, if 98% of people are braking the law of the land, then how can if be a fair and just law? As has also been mentioned - if the authorities want to reduce speeds, then they would put specs cameras up - not Gatsos.
Three of our engineers got stopped a few weeks back for doing between 82 and 90 on the same stretch of the M56. 11:00am (very quiet), dry, good visibility etc. A camera had been set to maximum income mode, and simply got everyone that drove past.
As has been said at least 750 million times in the past on these threads, it is very difficult to defend the speed limits on a safety arguement, when the inforcement clearly isn't organised in that way
.
cazzo said:
My dad who is over 70 has recently received his first points/fine courtesy of a speed cam on a dual carriageway, he has been driving safely with no convictions/fault accidents in over 50 years of motoring, this kind of thing does wonders for public/police relations!
I don't understand why everyone feels that it is Police fault that these devices are becoming more prevalent. I understand that people are angry that they exist but they are there because of pressure from 'the population' who don't want fast driving in their own back yards.
The Govt have decided that the best organistaion to run the sites and procedures are the Police because they are linked in with prosecution of offences under the Road Traffic Act and the Police are the body responsible for that information and are best placed to deal with it to get offenders before the courts.
People always used to moan about parking offences and traffic wardens/Police used to get the brunt of the grumbles over that. These offences especially in bigger towns are now overseen by Local Authority Wardens.
The reason Cameras are springing up everywhere is not the fault of the Police. The Police have to do what the Home Office direct. This is driven by pressure from Govt, which in turn is driven by concerns passed from 'the people' to their MPs.
The Police are under no illusions that motorists detest these cameras.
Most Police officers drive cars too you know
and even have the aggravation of having to deal with NIP and Section 172 notices when they are attending incidents which require them to break the limits whilst they are at work in marked vehicles, lights flashing or not. Personally last year I ended up having to explain why I went through 8 camera sites in excess of the limit. This requires sitting down at a computer and finding out exactly where I was going and why (not always easy when the forms arrive 6 weeks after the flash! As the records on the specific jobs attended data base per call sign are only held for 4 weeks)
They are a monumental pain in the ar5e to deal with.
The more "normal" people who get nicked the more this relationship is straining but do the politicians/police chiefs care, or even know?
Do you not think that Chief Officers are aware of that fact? Particularly when they are trying to put out a positive message which relies on a partnership approach to deal with other more serious offences. The partnerships being the good honest decent folk who are being persecuted by the cameras. Of course they care but what do they do, they have targets set by higher authority to meet.
They will also say that if you do not want to be affected by these cameras, then pay attention to what you are doing and do not exceed the limit. You will then not be in a postion to have feelings of anger to vent!
The current authorities have undermined years of goodwill for the Police and alienated a large number of people for doing no more than a few mph over, in many cases, an arbitrary limit. - something to be proud of I think!
It is not a fault of the police that this has come about. They are just the unfortunate body who has to administer the whole thing.
Govt set Police areas targets to hit as they do with teachers and doctors and other public sector organisations (CSA included
) Part of those targets are to reduce vehicle speed and therefore accidents which cause more serious damage as a result of that speed or indeed the avoidance of the accident in the first place.
You should bear in mind that the Police are between a rock and a hard place on this problem and the real people to get angry with are ourselves (the motorist)for not being able to control our vehilces safely or recognise where we should be taking extra and particular care.
>> Edited by madcop on Saturday 11th January 18:29
I agree MC.
Its not the fault of the Police collectively.
But certain chiefs arent helping. Muppets like the Heroic Brunstrom and that other Twerp wassisname.....from Thames Valley, giving it the large with how bad us criminals are...sheesh they need to pull their heads outa their assholes and listen to what the normal serving officers are saying.
Its only a speed increase for christs sake, hardly "crime of the century".
Politicians just love to hear that theyre "doing the right thing" from high ranking chief cops, even when its claptrap.
I for one would wish that ALL chiefs had the honesty, integrity, intelligence and sense of fair play that you appear to have MC, i think actually that they dont.
If only we had people of your calibre in charge with your qualities, then i think things would be a hell of a lot better than now.
You stand for PM m8, ill give you my vote, k?
Its not the fault of the Police collectively.
But certain chiefs arent helping. Muppets like the Heroic Brunstrom and that other Twerp wassisname.....from Thames Valley, giving it the large with how bad us criminals are...sheesh they need to pull their heads outa their assholes and listen to what the normal serving officers are saying.
Its only a speed increase for christs sake, hardly "crime of the century".
Politicians just love to hear that theyre "doing the right thing" from high ranking chief cops, even when its claptrap.
I for one would wish that ALL chiefs had the honesty, integrity, intelligence and sense of fair play that you appear to have MC, i think actually that they dont.
If only we had people of your calibre in charge with your qualities, then i think things would be a hell of a lot better than now.
You stand for PM m8, ill give you my vote, k?
But some Police [not coppers but the system called the police force] get to keep the fines more cameras paid for by fines a never ending circle.
A reduction in speed does not reduce the number of acidents only the amount of damage to car and health/life.
As a result of the cameras doing the work of traffic cops, well sort of what has happened to the man power as crime is on the up and up or is it that nobody wants to be a copper any more?
Paul.
A reduction in speed does not reduce the number of acidents only the amount of damage to car and health/life.
As a result of the cameras doing the work of traffic cops, well sort of what has happened to the man power as crime is on the up and up or is it that nobody wants to be a copper any more?
Paul.
MC - largely I agree with your reasoned arguments BUT having had an in-depth discussion with a Met officer recently who told me where the priorites lie in investigating crimes such as burglary, assualt, robbery etc the problem perhaps lies in the hypothetical situation that I could be going home and be caught on camera for speeding. I then get home and find my house has been burgled. The Police/authorities find it altoether easy to trace and prosecute me for speeding yet there is significant reason to believe that the invasion of my home, theft of my belongings, the damage and the trauma will NOT result in a serious investigation by the police or prosecution by the CPS unless there was some aspect such as racism, homophobia or that I was a high-profile victim (with access to the media).
You may argue that I am overly cynical yet there is enough doubt in my mind to seriously erode my hitherto deep respect for authority and the police due to the fact that some political/social engineering type motives have seen to it that I feel persecuted and victimised. AND then if the police do happen to cathc the burglar (usually due to political pressure ot have a clampdown on burglary leading to a rise in crime elsewhere), the scrote, plainly guilty, is given a meaningless punishment that leaves him/her free to reoffend.
You may argue that I am overly cynical yet there is enough doubt in my mind to seriously erode my hitherto deep respect for authority and the police due to the fact that some political/social engineering type motives have seen to it that I feel persecuted and victimised. AND then if the police do happen to cathc the burglar (usually due to political pressure ot have a clampdown on burglary leading to a rise in crime elsewhere), the scrote, plainly guilty, is given a meaningless punishment that leaves him/her free to reoffend.
Madcop, I realise that the Police are only enforcing the will of our "esteemed" leaders, however the motorist is dealt with by the police and courts so they see them as the "villain" regardless of who makes the policy. But to be fair there are some police chiefs out there that are basically politicians in training/disguise and therefore deserve the same contempt as the politicians.
I realise that police officers are being used to do the dirty work but the vast majority of the law-abiding public will blame them when nicked.
Particularly that if stopped say 10 or 20 years ago they got a "bollocking" and let go yet now they get 3 points & £60 they see the Police enforcing this.
Happy new year
I realise that police officers are being used to do the dirty work but the vast majority of the law-abiding public will blame them when nicked.
Particularly that if stopped say 10 or 20 years ago they got a "bollocking" and let go yet now they get 3 points & £60 they see the Police enforcing this.
Happy new year
I appreciate the position of Madcop, you do what your told to...
What bothers me is the relative injustice of fines and penalty points.
I have recently recieved a NIP for 36 in a 30 and expect to recieve 3 pts and a £60 fine.
Two years ago I was very lucky to survive a guy that knocked me off my R1. Not my fault, had five witnesses to say so. He was given 5pts and a £350 fine for breaking my femur, pelvis and spine. My quality of life has been well
ed up.
Can someone explain the justice in that.
>> Edited by marlboro on Sunday 12th January 00:02
What bothers me is the relative injustice of fines and penalty points.
I have recently recieved a NIP for 36 in a 30 and expect to recieve 3 pts and a £60 fine.
Two years ago I was very lucky to survive a guy that knocked me off my R1. Not my fault, had five witnesses to say so. He was given 5pts and a £350 fine for breaking my femur, pelvis and spine. My quality of life has been well
ed up. Can someone explain the justice in that.
>> Edited by marlboro on Sunday 12th January 00:02
madcop said:
cazzo said:
My dad who is over 70 has recently received his first points/fine courtesy of a speed cam on a dual carriageway, he has been driving safely with no convictions/fault accidents in over 50 years of motoring, this kind of thing does wonders for public/police relations!
I don't understand why everyone feels that it is Police fault that these devices are becoming more prevalent. I understand that people are angry that they exist but they are there because of pressure from 'the population' who don't want fast driving in their own back yards.
The Govt have decided that the best organistaion to run the sites and procedures are the Police because they are linked in with prosecution of offences under the Road Traffic Act and the Police are the body responsible for that information and are best placed to deal with it to get offenders before the courts.
People always used to moan about parking offences and traffic wardens/Police used to get the brunt of the grumbles over that. These offences especially in bigger towns are now overseen by Local Authority Wardens.
The reason Cameras are springing up everywhere is not the fault of the Police. The Police have to do what the Home Office direct. This is driven by pressure from Govt, which in turn is driven by concerns passed from 'the people' to their MPs.
The Police are under no illusions that motorists detest these cameras.
Most Police officers drive cars too you know
Personally last year I ended up having to explain why I went through 8 camera sites in excess of the limit. This requires sitting down at a computer and finding out exactly where I was going and why (not always easy when the forms arrive 6 weeks after the flash! As the records on the specific jobs attended data base per call sign are only held for 4 weeks)
They are a monumental pain in the ar5e to deal with.
The more "normal" people who get nicked the more this relationship is straining but do the politicians/police chiefs care, or even know?
Do you not think that Chief Officers are aware of that fact? Particularly when they are trying to put out a positive message which relies on a partnership approach to deal with other more serious offences. The partnerships being the good honest decent folk who are being persecuted by the cameras. Of course they care but what do they do, they have targets set by higher authority to meet.
They will also say that if you do not want to be affected by these cameras, then pay attention to what you are doing and do not exceed the limit. You will then not be in a postion to have feelings of anger to vent!
The current authorities have undermined years of goodwill for the Police and alienated a large number of people for doing no more than a few mph over, in many cases, an arbitrary limit. - something to be proud of I think!
It is not a fault of the police that this has come about. They are just the unfortunate body who has to administer the whole thing.
Govt set Police areas targets to hit as they do with teachers and doctors and other public sector organisations (CSA included
Part of those targets are to reduce vehicle speed and therefore accidents which cause more serious damage as a result of that speed or indeed the avoidance of the accident in the first place.
You should bear in mind that the Police are between a rock and a hard place on this problem and the real people to get angry with are ourselves (the motorist)for not being able to control our vehilces safely or recognise where we should be taking extra and particular care.
>> Edited by madcop on Saturday 11th January 18:29
It is a fault of the police , by working in the job you are giving them your full support If you dont agreey with there ways then quit
im shorry but where i come from you dont support that which you do not agreey with.
>> Edited by outlaw on Sunday 12th January 20:14
Hi Outlaw.
I agree with some of what you said, in that supporting something you dont agree with is kind of paradoxical.
But on the other hand, the police take the job "warts an all".
Some of the laws they enforce and the way they enforce is questionable, but i dont really think your average cop just doin the job has any real say so in how he does it.
Basically they are ordered by the likes of thicky Brunstrom to "do it like this" and they have to comply.
Its not an easy job, i dunno if most officers find it rewarding even, then there comes the criticisms...
Trapped between a rock and a hard place is how i see it.
Although, i have to say if it was me being ordered to "do it this way" by Saintly Brunsy, i really would tell him to shove his job up, yes right up his arse.
I wont slag a cop for just doing his job, but somewhere along the line, cops are gonna HAVE to declare their position on this speeding caper, cos theyre losing public support like a leaky seive.
I agree with some of what you said, in that supporting something you dont agree with is kind of paradoxical.
But on the other hand, the police take the job "warts an all".
Some of the laws they enforce and the way they enforce is questionable, but i dont really think your average cop just doin the job has any real say so in how he does it.
Basically they are ordered by the likes of thicky Brunstrom to "do it like this" and they have to comply.
Its not an easy job, i dunno if most officers find it rewarding even, then there comes the criticisms...
Trapped between a rock and a hard place is how i see it.
Although, i have to say if it was me being ordered to "do it this way" by Saintly Brunsy, i really would tell him to shove his job up, yes right up his arse.
I wont slag a cop for just doing his job, but somewhere along the line, cops are gonna HAVE to declare their position on this speeding caper, cos theyre losing public support like a leaky seive.
If you don't like the job then just quit. If you don't like the government then don't vote. Oh bollocks. I'm not about to join the polis fan club (too many kickings in the back of a black maria as a kid for that) but I would rather have informative sensible sympathetic polis inside the force, the loonyconstable or not, talking/influencing/persuading their colleagues than any other solution. When was the last time you lectured a cop and he said 'damn right sir, I'm sorry but my point of view is up my arse and you are totally correct'
I still don't live in Northants or go on the M6 much
I still don't live in Northants or go on the M6 much
Del Sydyway said: If you don't like the job then just quit. If you don't like the government then don't vote.
Sorry, but that's pathetic. What sort of country would we have if nobody would join the Police? And if you don't like the Government, don't stick your head in the sand, vote for another one.
I have managed to open the old can of worms on the old speeding, cameras & Police debate, sorry!!
My opinions are simple 30 & 40 limits we have no excuse for speeding. Thats why I took my points on the chin, I've had enough close shaves on motorways and NSL (cameras with no films etc) so I knew I would collect some points soon. Thinking about my case if I wasn't concentrationg enough to keep a check on my speed what other dangers did I miss !!!!
PS I'm not a greeny do gooder I'll get my foot down as good as the next man conditions permitting.
My opinions are simple 30 & 40 limits we have no excuse for speeding. Thats why I took my points on the chin, I've had enough close shaves on motorways and NSL (cameras with no films etc) so I knew I would collect some points soon. Thinking about my case if I wasn't concentrationg enough to keep a check on my speed what other dangers did I miss !!!!
PS I'm not a greeny do gooder I'll get my foot down as good as the next man conditions permitting.
Just been speaking to an old colleague (I'm ex Police), apparently so far this month 30 Police Officers have been caught speeding in a large northern city ( clue, their football team aren't having a good season)including a Chief Superintendant. All have been prosecuted so theres no hiding no matter who you are.
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