Seeing where a mail was sent from?
Seeing where a mail was sent from?
Author
Discussion

fergus

Original Poster:

6,430 posts

305 months

Monday 17th April 2006
quotequote all
Is there anyway of seeing if a yahoo/hotmail/gmail type mail was sent within the UK? Someone once said that depending upon how the worlds various routers connect together, it can appear to come from anywhere? Not sure if this is true or not?

If I have outlook as my mailbox, how would I go about finding out? Or at best would it just give me the IP address?

Marki

15,763 posts

300 months

Monday 17th April 2006
quotequote all
Bump

(as i would like to know also )

mattley

3,039 posts

252 months

Monday 17th April 2006
quotequote all
Gmail, no, Originated headers IDs Googles servers,

Hotmail, yes, The originating IP will be either the ISP's external gateway, or the actual users IP.

When you say Outlook I assume you mean Outlook Express. to view the headers select the message and go file => properties => Details => message source.

Find the originiating IP address, then scoot over to www.ripe.net/whois And this will tell you the location of that IP owner.


Yahoo Dunno, I don't use Yahoo.

mattley

3,039 posts

252 months

Monday 17th April 2006
quotequote all
fergus said:
Someone once said that depending upon how the worlds various routers connect together, it can appear to come from anywhere? Not sure if this is true or not?


this is tosh, as routers don't leave any trace in mail headers, only servers can do that.

It is worth mentioning though, that the SMTP headers format and the protocols for using it correctly are well documented in the RFC's they can be easily configured to say anything, originating IPs and server names are for reference only, not cross checked. This is why spammers are so difficult to track down.

bigdods

7,175 posts

257 months

Monday 17th April 2006
quotequote all
Anyone with a smidge of know how can fudge an email header to say pretty much anything they want, so the header may not contain the right info. If its something that would be worth tracing the sender will have hidden their tracks and you will get a dead end

_dobbo_

14,619 posts

278 months

Monday 17th April 2006
quotequote all
You can fake headers but why bother? I could add 100 fake Received headers to an email, but as soon as it hits another server I no longer have control of what's added.

Ultimately you can only really trust one received header, and that's the topmost one which will have been added by whatever server your email account is on. Any other Received headers will likely be correct, but are not guaranteed to be.

I think I've only ever seen a faked received header once, I can't imagine why you would bother, spammers aren't that bothered about covering their tracks.

zumbruk

7,848 posts

290 months

Monday 17th April 2006
quotequote all
The headers can be forged up until the point they are injected into a "real" SMTP server. At that point, the spammer, or whoever, has no control. So, it is possible, with some common sense, to work out where an email came from. Switch on "Full Headers" in your email client (correctly called an MUA - Mail User Agent, to distinguish from the servers which deliver mail, which are called MTAs - MAil Transfer Agents.) Each MTA adds a line to the headers in the email, saying some thing like;

Received: from pop.mail.somewhere.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by postie.zumbruk.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4C802BFF2 for <zumbruk@postie.zumbruk.com>; Mon, 17 Apr 2006 19:49:00 +0100 (BST)

There will be one of these lines for each MTA that the email has transited. As someone rightly says, a spammer can forge these lines, right up to the "real" SMTP server, but all the lines after that will be real ones. You need to work your way backwards up the lines, checking that each server is a real one, until you get to one that doesn't exist. The previous one was the place the spam was injected (aka, an "open relay"

If it's a real email, and you just want to know where it came from, all the lines will be real ones, and the top one will tell you the where the email came from.

HTH.

Z.

mattley

3,039 posts

252 months

Monday 17th April 2006
quotequote all
mattley said:

Yahoo Dunno, I don't use Yahoo.


OK, so I got a bit bored so I set up a yahoo account. The answer's no, originating IP is yahoos.



So, in our survey, Microsoft came out first, or last, depending on your POV.

fergus

Original Poster:

6,430 posts

305 months

Tuesday 18th April 2006
quotequote all
The reason I ask is that I need to know if someone who claims they are in Australia is in fact back in the UK!! Does the initial server to deliver the message typically reside in the same country as the one where the mail was sent? Apologies if this is a naive question!

mattley

3,039 posts

252 months

Tuesday 18th April 2006
quotequote all
He he, yeah, I kinda guessed that was what you were after.

Typically, yes it would, but with webmail, it's different. Once you log onto hotmail or gmail your browser is interacting with a server in the states, regardless of where you are in the world. Becuase of that, once you send a mail, the internet thinks you're in the US, which effectivly you are.

As I said above, mail headers are highly configurable, in hotmail MS have chosen to add the originating IP look for the line X-Originating-IP: [nnn.nnn.nnn.nnn] in the message source
(which is nice of them at times like these), and this will give you geographical location. Yahoo and gmail don't do this, so it's game over.