Running Red Lights
Discussion
I've already done a search and can't find an answer to this one, but sorry if it's an old one.
A colleague of mine has texted me this morning. He's working in Taiwan atm, and his office here have received a NIP (from a camera) for his car running a red light in Nottingham.
He's been told it's not a fixed penalty, but his halfwit secretary won't let me look at it. I'm (fortunately) not that experienced in this sort of thing, so not sure what he's likely to be facing. I've already texted back and asked him if he was likely to be doing stupid speed when he did it, and had no reply, so I think we can assume he might have been exceeding the limit too.
Any ideas what the likely penalty is for either scenario (just jumping the light, or jumping the light and speeding)?
Don't know if he's got any existing convictions.
Ta
A colleague of mine has texted me this morning. He's working in Taiwan atm, and his office here have received a NIP (from a camera) for his car running a red light in Nottingham.
He's been told it's not a fixed penalty, but his halfwit secretary won't let me look at it. I'm (fortunately) not that experienced in this sort of thing, so not sure what he's likely to be facing. I've already texted back and asked him if he was likely to be doing stupid speed when he did it, and had no reply, so I think we can assume he might have been exceeding the limit too.
Any ideas what the likely penalty is for either scenario (just jumping the light, or jumping the light and speeding)?
Don't know if he's got any existing convictions.
Ta
plotloss said: Isnt running a red light Driving With Due Care and Attention? 3pts & £60 fine?
Matt.
Matt, that's what I thought, but if he was hoofing it as well, could that be Dangerous Driving, and be the reason why he hasn't got a fixed penalty? Assuming the secretary has read it right that is?
A friend of mine went through an amber light about 3 - 4 years ago - traffic officer saw him and relieved him of £30 (i THINK - its gone up to £60 now anyway) and im certain he got 3 points for it.
As for being charged with speeding AND the red light - IIRC you can only be charged for one offence per incident - although upping the charge to Dangerous Driving would seem like a good way to encompass both offences? Not sure.
As for being charged with speeding AND the red light - IIRC you can only be charged for one offence per incident - although upping the charge to Dangerous Driving would seem like a good way to encompass both offences? Not sure.
Mad Dave said: A friend of mine went through an amber light about 3 - 4 years ago - traffic officer saw him and relieved him of £30 (i THINK - its gone up to £60 now anyway) and im certain he got 3 points for it.
As for being charged with speeding AND the red light - IIRC you can only be charged for one offence per incident - although upping the charge to Dangerous Driving would seem like a good way to encompass both offences? Not sure.
I thought you only had to stop at amber if it was safe to do so - only going through a red is an offence. Anyone??
kevinday said:
T-C said: Amber means "Stop" and you must stop except where by doing so it would be likely to cause danger to other road users.
In my area quite a few camera's are set on amber.
Maybe so, but it is not an offence to go through under the amber light, so no fine, no points.
Sorry, yes it is, failing to conform to a traffic signal, £60 fine and three points.
Indeed i believe you are correct - but unfortunately the Officer who witnessed it was in a bad mood and 'did' him for it. Apparently my mate started to brake, then changed his mind and went thru, whilst it was still on amber. The Officer said that if he hadnt have braked, he'd have got away with it!
I cant help but think that a good talking to would have been sufficient to teach him a lesson - i know he no longer 'amber gambles' so its taught him a lesson but i think a good rollicking would have had the same effect - for example, a couple of years ago i went from a 1.1 Fiesta to a 205 GTI, being young and foolish i felt the need to demonstrate the extra power i now had under my right boot - this meant flooring it away from the lights in the centre of Salisbury (hit about 50mph, and its a 20 limit, but big wide 2 lane road). cue blue lights and a "stop driving like a pillock or ill have ya!" talking to from PC Plod. It taught me a lesson, i realised the error of my ways (it was a dumb thing to do) and ive not done it again!!
anyway, im rambling, so ill shut my cakehole!
I cant help but think that a good talking to would have been sufficient to teach him a lesson - i know he no longer 'amber gambles' so its taught him a lesson but i think a good rollicking would have had the same effect - for example, a couple of years ago i went from a 1.1 Fiesta to a 205 GTI, being young and foolish i felt the need to demonstrate the extra power i now had under my right boot - this meant flooring it away from the lights in the centre of Salisbury (hit about 50mph, and its a 20 limit, but big wide 2 lane road). cue blue lights and a "stop driving like a pillock or ill have ya!" talking to from PC Plod. It taught me a lesson, i realised the error of my ways (it was a dumb thing to do) and ive not done it again!!
anyway, im rambling, so ill shut my cakehole!
T-C said:
kevinday said:
T-C said: Amber means "Stop" and you must stop except where by doing so it would be likely to cause danger to other road users.
In my area quite a few camera's are set on amber.
Maybe so, but it is not an offence to go through under the amber light, so no fine, no points.
Sorry, yes it is, failing to conform to a traffic signal, £60 fine and three points.
I am sorry but I do not really believe you
If I am 8 meters from the lights at 30 mph and they change to amber I would drive through them because it would be impossible to stop in that 8 meters, therefore how can it be an offence, surely that is the reason for the amber, to give you the time to stop before it is red, or to continue through the junction before the light is red if impossible/dangerous to stop?
If this is not the case then what is the point of the amber.....
Contravening a red traffic light - offence is fail to conform to regulatory traffic sign / signal - you can be done by a police officer or in this case by a TLVC ( Traffic Light Violation Camera )
Contravening the amber - covered by careless / inconsiderate driving - witnessed by person only - cameras cannot supply sufficient evidence, the witness must be able to refute the drivers argument that to try to stop would cause an accident.
A camera shot looking across the white line into the junction cannot provide that evidence - amber prosecutions by TLVC are more likely to be urban legends in myview.
The way that the cameras work is to energise as soon as the signal goes to red - if a vehicle crosses the solid white line after this point, the camera takes a photo showing the vehicle entering the junction and printing upon the shot the time / day / date and how many seconds the redhad been lit.
Contravening the amber - covered by careless / inconsiderate driving - witnessed by person only - cameras cannot supply sufficient evidence, the witness must be able to refute the drivers argument that to try to stop would cause an accident.
A camera shot looking across the white line into the junction cannot provide that evidence - amber prosecutions by TLVC are more likely to be urban legends in myview.
The way that the cameras work is to energise as soon as the signal goes to red - if a vehicle crosses the solid white line after this point, the camera takes a photo showing the vehicle entering the junction and printing upon the shot the time / day / date and how many seconds the redhad been lit.
I believe the amber light is a caution, i.e. the lights will soon be red so make up your mind if you can stop or are you too close to the signals in question to stop safely. I'd argue anyone who penalised me for going thru the amber as its at my discresion if it is safe or not.
It would be interesting to see what happened if in the case where camera sites are and the amber is set really short, but you slammed on the anchors and stopped just over the white line. If you got a photo, the second one would show you stationary, so would you get done?
Lots of presuming and if's an but's there
It would be interesting to see what happened if in the case where camera sites are and the amber is set really short, but you slammed on the anchors and stopped just over the white line. If you got a photo, the second one would show you stationary, so would you get done?
Lots of presuming and if's an but's there
Highway Code says this
{edit:}
I.e. You must stop, unless you have already crossed the solid line, or (as has been posted) if to do so would cause an accident.
I guess in this case the fact that he braked and then decided to go anyway should indicate that the driver had checked his rearview mirror and decided it was safe to brake (mirror, signal, manoever - remember that one?) so should have stopped. Without the brake, it could be argued that he had checked, decided it was unsafe and so carrid on legally to prevent the accident!
>> Edited by pdv6 on Wednesday 15th January 13:56
{edit:}
I.e. You must stop, unless you have already crossed the solid line, or (as has been posted) if to do so would cause an accident.
I guess in this case the fact that he braked and then decided to go anyway should indicate that the driver had checked his rearview mirror and decided it was safe to brake (mirror, signal, manoever - remember that one?) so should have stopped. Without the brake, it could be argued that he had checked, decided it was unsafe and so carrid on legally to prevent the accident!
>> Edited by pdv6 on Wednesday 15th January 13:56
Also, i've heard somewhere that when stationary at lights, which then turn to amber, you're not allowed to move over the line until they are green, so whats that amber for. From memory around europe, most lights go straight from red to green when starting off, and only show amber when about to go to red.
Does whichever of these is true apply here too? If crossing on amber is illegal, could you get caught by a camera for starting to move on amber from red?
Does whichever of these is true apply here too? If crossing on amber is illegal, could you get caught by a camera for starting to move on amber from red?
Red and amber means 'stop' - see Highway code as posted above (or below, depends how you view the thread!)
{edited to add:} The amber is to give you notice that the lights are about to change green. Am I the only one who sometimes gets caught out on the continent (looking at the time/scenery) when the green comes on and 0.05 seconds later the guy behind is on the horn?
>> Edited by pdv6 on Wednesday 15th January 14:24
{edited to add:} The amber is to give you notice that the lights are about to change green. Am I the only one who sometimes gets caught out on the continent (looking at the time/scenery) when the green comes on and 0.05 seconds later the guy behind is on the horn?
>> Edited by pdv6 on Wednesday 15th January 14:24
Am I the only one who sometimes gets caught out on the continent (looking at the time/scenery) when the green comes on and 0.05 seconds later the guy behind is on the horn?
Oh most definitely not! Been there many times, just can't get used to it! Admittedly, in this country, as long as it's safe, i'm away on amber, but you don't get the chance in Europe, and the French driver behind you simply *has* to get there 0.05 seconds faster than you too!!
pdv6 said: Highway Code says this
{edit:}
I.e. You must stop, unless you have already crossed the solid line, or (as has been posted) if to do so would cause an accident.
I got pulled for this several years ago. I had noticed a police car following me (30 yards back) for a couple of junctions, and was wondering why they were interested. Came up to a traffic light at green, doing a very careful 28mph, and just as I was approaching (5 yards?), they changed to amber - to me this was clearly a case where it would have been an extreme emergency stop to be anywhere near the stop line, and was safe to continue through. I was also thinking 'well, that'll lose the police car', but no, blues on and a pull.
Inevitable debate followed, me pointing out that there was no way to stop before the white line, and the highway code indeed said "so close to it that to pull up might cause an accident".
They didn't pursue it too much, but left with a 'just watch it' type of message. Don't know why they were following me, just seemed like they had picked me out for a bollocking before I'd done anything.
Don't suppose being young looking and in a red Golf GTi is an offense? (OTOH, don't answer that...)
Amber is STOP if it is safe to do so.
Red is STOP
Red/Amber is STOP (because of the red) but be prepared to move off when they change to green.
As far as I know there is no "default" setting for the length of amber but there will be default settings for different speed limits. The amber light must give enough warning that you can stop prior to the light turning red. The length of this warning will depend on the speed of the approaching vehicles (ie the speed limit).
Red is STOP
Red/Amber is STOP (because of the red) but be prepared to move off when they change to green.
As far as I know there is no "default" setting for the length of amber but there will be default settings for different speed limits. The amber light must give enough warning that you can stop prior to the light turning red. The length of this warning will depend on the speed of the approaching vehicles (ie the speed limit).
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