Larini 4-2-1 - what difference to just back box?
Discussion
On my S2 111s I am thinking of chaning my Lotus Stage 1 for a Larini (given all the excellent feedback on here and Seloc) as I struggle to hear the exaust when the top's down above 60 however I don't want to be deafened as this is my daily car and I spend all too much time on the Motorway at the moment.
What difference does the full 4-2-1 system (with normal CAT) make to the car in terms of sound and I support performance (though I'm not expecting much) as opposed to the normal Larini upgrade (back box I assume)?
For information I have a piper cross induction kit on but would consider changing this for an ITG or Hurricane.
Many thanks
Miles
What difference does the full 4-2-1 system (with normal CAT) make to the car in terms of sound and I support performance (though I'm not expecting much) as opposed to the normal Larini upgrade (back box I assume)?
For information I have a piper cross induction kit on but would consider changing this for an ITG or Hurricane.
Many thanks
Miles
Upgrading the manifold on a standard engine may not actually do a lot for the VVC engine. It may even reduce the midrange torque if you get the larger bore one. Cat release pipes have been shown to decrease power on the VVC by 2-3 bhp. They apparently need back pressure. If the engine is modified and flows better - eg uldis's engine - it will defitely benefit from an uprated manifold.
I suggest a U2U on Seloc to either Steve Butts (SteveB) or Dave Andrews (DVAndrews) who are two people I know of who will be able to advise you on this. SteveB sells the piper manifolds as well, but he will tell you honestly whether it is worthwhile with your current setup.
I just got a Larini backbox. Nothing else needed. I even replaced my induction kit with a panel filter.
I suggest a U2U on Seloc to either Steve Butts (SteveB) or Dave Andrews (DVAndrews) who are two people I know of who will be able to advise you on this. SteveB sells the piper manifolds as well, but he will tell you honestly whether it is worthwhile with your current setup.
I just got a Larini backbox. Nothing else needed. I even replaced my induction kit with a panel filter.
I've got the Larini 4-2-1 on mine (standard S1 with 160TB+Hurricane) as part of a "complete" Larini system (clubsport+decat).
Since I fitted it all in one go I can't comment on the difference the 4-2-1 made in isolation and indeed I can't comment on the effects it'd have on the VVC engine.
However, as for the sound.... over the standard larini or the larini+decat, the 4-2-1 doesn't really increase volume, but it does change the tone a bit.... takes a little of the harshness out of the exhaust note and really gives it a bit more "timbre" to use a musical word.
As for power, it's done my S1 no harm at all! I never really expected much gain from the exhaust (decat + backbox) maybe only 3-4bhp but the 4-2-1 has given me a definite lift at high RPMs while giving me more torque across the board. I've got no dyno plot to help me here but comparing my performances at Pukekohe Raceway (very fast, high-horsepower circuit in Auckland) against other Elises, my S1 was pulling even to slightly better straightline speeds to a mildly tickled S1 S135 that's dynoed at around 142bhp and was keeping up with a S1S160S that's dynoed at a clear 150bhp.
I'd estimate the horsepower of my engine to be in the mid to high 130bhp range, but this is pure speculation... I'll have it on the dyno in a few months though for a concise figure.
As a seat-of-the-pants-o-meter, I'd had my Elise for about 7 months before fitting the full larini kit.... I'd never got NEAR the rev limiter.... there was no point changing up at anything past 6000RPM, the torque just died off so dramatically.... the very first motorway on-ramp I took my car to after having the Larini fitted I planted it and was waiting and waiting for the revs to build and at 6500 she was still pulling strong.... so much so that by the time I'd reacted I'd just touched the rev limiter... something I'd never done before (and that scared me at the time!).... I'd say that it's definitely a worthwhile mod if you don't mind spending the money.
The Larini 4-2-1 is a good all-round manifold.... it's pretty big bore, so on a really hard-tuned engine it'd be good and it's got a flexi so the car retains good road manners (the ideal 4-2-1 has no flexi and uses a more solid engine mounting to prevent the manifold from cracking, leading to much more vibrationin the cabin) It's reasonably well made and seems to do the trick.... I'm happy with mine!
Since I fitted it all in one go I can't comment on the difference the 4-2-1 made in isolation and indeed I can't comment on the effects it'd have on the VVC engine.
However, as for the sound.... over the standard larini or the larini+decat, the 4-2-1 doesn't really increase volume, but it does change the tone a bit.... takes a little of the harshness out of the exhaust note and really gives it a bit more "timbre" to use a musical word.
As for power, it's done my S1 no harm at all! I never really expected much gain from the exhaust (decat + backbox) maybe only 3-4bhp but the 4-2-1 has given me a definite lift at high RPMs while giving me more torque across the board. I've got no dyno plot to help me here but comparing my performances at Pukekohe Raceway (very fast, high-horsepower circuit in Auckland) against other Elises, my S1 was pulling even to slightly better straightline speeds to a mildly tickled S1 S135 that's dynoed at around 142bhp and was keeping up with a S1S160S that's dynoed at a clear 150bhp.
I'd estimate the horsepower of my engine to be in the mid to high 130bhp range, but this is pure speculation... I'll have it on the dyno in a few months though for a concise figure.
As a seat-of-the-pants-o-meter, I'd had my Elise for about 7 months before fitting the full larini kit.... I'd never got NEAR the rev limiter.... there was no point changing up at anything past 6000RPM, the torque just died off so dramatically.... the very first motorway on-ramp I took my car to after having the Larini fitted I planted it and was waiting and waiting for the revs to build and at 6500 she was still pulling strong.... so much so that by the time I'd reacted I'd just touched the rev limiter... something I'd never done before (and that scared me at the time!).... I'd say that it's definitely a worthwhile mod if you don't mind spending the money.
The Larini 4-2-1 is a good all-round manifold.... it's pretty big bore, so on a really hard-tuned engine it'd be good and it's got a flexi so the car retains good road manners (the ideal 4-2-1 has no flexi and uses a more solid engine mounting to prevent the manifold from cracking, leading to much more vibrationin the cabin) It's reasonably well made and seems to do the trick.... I'm happy with mine!
I' ve followed esprits S1 a few times and think it sounds fantastic! His full set up certainly hasn't damaged his perfromance either. Generally all the larini's I've ever heard have been good. I've got the sports cat/exhaust on my 111R and its FAB.
Specifically regarding the S2 111S, Tony's vids sound good but i don't know.
Someone who is more help than me will be along shortly i'm sure.
Specifically regarding the S2 111S, Tony's vids sound good but i don't know.
Someone who is more help than me will be along shortly i'm sure.
shangani said:
Upgrading the manifold on a standard engine may not actually do a lot for the VVC engine. It may even reduce the midrange torque if you get the larger bore one. Cat release pipes have been shown to decrease power on the VVC by 2-3 bhp. They apparently need back pressure. If the engine is modified and flows better - eg uldis's engine - it will defitely benefit from an uprated manifold.
I suggest a U2U on Seloc to either Steve Butts (SteveB) or Dave Andrews (DVAndrews) who are two people I know of who will be able to advise you on this. SteveB sells the piper manifolds as well, but he will tell you honestly whether it is worthwhile with your current setup.
I just got a Larini backbox. Nothing else needed. I even replaced my induction kit with a panel filter.
Sound advice. Talk to Steve and Dave and get suggestions from the pro's.
Yup I agree with all the advise given so far!
Regarding the pops and bangs - I have a Larini back box and de-cat on mine and the car pops and bangs really nicely (when provoked) - but it only started doing this after about 1000 miles (once the pipes got a bit coked up I assume and had gone through all their heat cycles etc).
There are some videos in my profile comparing the backbox versus with de-cat - they should help a bit purely on sound.
Regarding the pops and bangs - I have a Larini back box and de-cat on mine and the car pops and bangs really nicely (when provoked) - but it only started doing this after about 1000 miles (once the pipes got a bit coked up I assume and had gone through all their heat cycles etc).
There are some videos in my profile comparing the backbox versus with de-cat - they should help a bit purely on sound.
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