Discussion
I have been driving to work via some A and B Roads and I have been coming across a few motor bikes. It is always across them on same stretch of road culminating in a 540 degree "spiral" on to the 303 which is just BRILLIANT.
Now the bikes take the liz in a straight line but the top end is about the same in reality, you have to have alot of balls to do big speeds on a bike. When the corners come up, I catch up with the bike and after a long straight the 540 means the bike is stepping out and I am trying to pass, I can get the power down earlier coming out of the bend and get a lead for about 50 yards.
I think over a twisty, technical roads the 'liz is as fast as as a bike and in hard corners, faster. I am sure that this could be disproved with x rider but this has happened a couple of times and one of the riders was really intent on the "challenge".
Now the bikes take the liz in a straight line but the top end is about the same in reality, you have to have alot of balls to do big speeds on a bike. When the corners come up, I catch up with the bike and after a long straight the 540 means the bike is stepping out and I am trying to pass, I can get the power down earlier coming out of the bend and get a lead for about 50 yards.
I think over a twisty, technical roads the 'liz is as fast as as a bike and in hard corners, faster. I am sure that this could be disproved with x rider but this has happened a couple of times and one of the riders was really intent on the "challenge".
gooby said:
I have been driving to work via some A and B Roads and I have been coming across a few motor bikes. It is always across them on same stretch of road culminating in a 540 degree "spiral" on to the 303 which is just BRILLIANT.
Now the bikes take the liz in a straight line but the top end is about the same in reality, you have to have alot of balls to do big speeds on a bike. When the corners come up, I catch up with the bike and after a long straight the 540 means the bike is stepping out and I am trying to pass, I can get the power down earlier coming out of the bend and get a lead for about 50 yards.
I think over a twisty, technical roads the 'liz is as fast as as a bike and in hard corners, faster. I am sure that this could be disproved with x rider but this has happened a couple of times and one of the riders was really intent on the "challenge".
I got to do this type of drive with a mate of mine near oxford, the bike just can not take the corner speed like a car. But then you can feel like you have stopped when a straight pops up and the bike just goes into the distance. We did this a number of time because we shared a house for 6 months and it was the way home from work for us both.
It was a fun time, and I got to know every bump/turn in the road.
There was a 5th Gear/Top Gear article on this very thing. May have been Plato (I seem to remember it was a racing driving who was also a bike enthusiast). The conclusion was exactly that. Bikes on the straights and car in the braking zone and cornering. I think the car came out on top over a full lap or whatever circuit they were doing.
I think I saw it, and haven't just had some fake memory inserted into my brain by the invading alien horde..
I think I saw it, and haven't just had some fake memory inserted into my brain by the invading alien horde..
Yep thats about it. On nice open A roads any sportsbike with a decent rider would be gone but on tight twisty roads its a different matter, unless you know the road well you cant just go for it like you can in the liz, it's the bumps/shit on the road etc with that small bit of rubber in comparison to four fat tyres, leaning over aswell, if you hit a bump/lump of shit it really gets your attention where as the liz just rides over it
Although the top end is not really the same, it is very easy to do 140mph+ even on a 600cc bike, if youre doing 60, accelerate hard for a few seconds & you are there, i have not ridden a gsxr 1000 / r1 etc but they do around 180mph iirc
I`m sure the bike vs car issue on real twisty roads would be a cat & mouse fight but I`m in no doubt that a bike with a good rider would be capable of getting away over say 10 -20 miles...the power to weight advantage of a 1000cc bike is 1000+bhp per tonne and no car is near enough to match that .. no matter how much the car gains in the twisty`s, the bike would reel it in no probs on any straight piece of road...On the track things are closer..A touring car can beat a british superbike around most UK circuits...It remains a superb bargain for the superbike..7K ...for supercar speed/handling!!
>> Edited by F.M on Friday 21st April 20:49
>> Edited by F.M on Friday 21st April 20:49
F.M said:
I`m sure the bike vs car issue on real twisty roads would be a cat & mouse fight but I`m in no doubt that a bike with a good rider would be capable of getting away over say 10 -20 miles...the power to weight advantage of a 1000cc bike is 1000+bhp per tonne and no car is near enough to match that .. no matter how much the car gains in the twisty`s, the bike would reel it in no probs on any straight piece of road...On the track things are closer..A touring car can beat a british superbike around most UK circuits...It remains a superb bargain for the superbike..7K ...for supercar speed/handling!!
>> Edited by F.M on Friday 21st April 20:49
Having recently sold my Kawasaki ZX-636 B1H to fund the purchase of a standard S1 Elise, I would have to say that the type of road would make all the differance.
Compared to the Elise, the acceleration of the bike was absolutely unbelievable, lifting the front wheel all the way to 104mph in second! But when you get to a corner, unless you're either incredibly talented or very trusting of what the road surface is like, I think that you'll always 'bottle' slightly earlier on a bike than you will in a car.
I'm not particularly quick in/on either, but I'm fairly confident that on a lap of a set circuit, I'd be quicker in the Elise than I would've been on the Kawasaki.
Compared to the Elise, the acceleration of the bike was absolutely unbelievable, lifting the front wheel all the way to 104mph in second! But when you get to a corner, unless you're either incredibly talented or very trusting of what the road surface is like, I think that you'll always 'bottle' slightly earlier on a bike than you will in a car.
I'm not particularly quick in/on either, but I'm fairly confident that on a lap of a set circuit, I'd be quicker in the Elise than I would've been on the Kawasaki.
Coincidently had a nice 'play' with a bike today.
Picked him up coming clear of the Specs cameras in the Saltash tunnel going into Cornwall and enjoyed 8 miles of cat and mouse along the A38 (more like a B road) till we went in different directions. On the short straights he would blast away but after a few twisties I'd be on his tail. Don't think I can draw any conclusions as we were both driving well within our respective vehicles limits (albeit quickly) but it would seem that a safe road speed in the twisties in a car is probably a bit too quick for a bike ( both allowing a margin for the unexpected).
Met him again this evening coming home. Nice as we parted company.
Picked him up coming clear of the Specs cameras in the Saltash tunnel going into Cornwall and enjoyed 8 miles of cat and mouse along the A38 (more like a B road) till we went in different directions. On the short straights he would blast away but after a few twisties I'd be on his tail. Don't think I can draw any conclusions as we were both driving well within our respective vehicles limits (albeit quickly) but it would seem that a safe road speed in the twisties in a car is probably a bit too quick for a bike ( both allowing a margin for the unexpected).
Met him again this evening coming home. Nice
as we parted company.FM summed the debate up nicely. my hayabusa cost 8k and can hit 190 in 5th(of 6) no problem leaving any road car for dead, try 150 in 10 secs, but come the twisties my average bike skill would have most handy sports car drivers up my chuff. moral of story, own a superbike and a lotus, endeth reading. he he he.
gooby said:
I have been driving to work via some A and B Roads and I have been coming across a few motor bikes. It is always across them on same stretch of road culminating in a 540 degree "spiral" on to the 303 which is just BRILLIANT.
Now the bikes take the liz in a straight line but the top end is about the same in reality, you have to have alot of balls to do big speeds on a bike. When the corners come up, I catch up with the bike and after a long straight the 540 means the bike is stepping out and I am trying to pass, I can get the power down earlier coming out of the bend and get a lead for about 50 yards.
I think over a twisty, technical roads the 'liz is as fast as as a bike and in hard corners, faster. I am sure that this could be disproved with x rider but this has happened a couple of times and one of the riders was really intent on the "challenge".
Gooby, I reckon you could do with some advanced driving lessons as there is a lot of immaturity in your post.
All IMO of course.
Dunno Andrew, but the only time I had a dice with a bike on the road, I couldn't stop thinking about what would happen if he fell off and I was anywhere near. Especially at the speeds involved - it would have required a sponge to pick them up. There was a chap in a GT2 who went to prison because he was racing a bike on the road, the biker understeered in a turn and fatally collided with something. The car didn't hit him or cut him up, it was just 'dicing' with him. You can find the details in the general gassing archive I believe.
I'm all for making progress, but this stuff definitely makes me feel very uneasy. In fact the whole idea of road racing is silly imho. Why not just do it all on the race track?
So I guess I'm siding with Moist.
>> Edited by DanH on Friday 21st April 23:13
I'm all for making progress, but this stuff definitely makes me feel very uneasy. In fact the whole idea of road racing is silly imho. Why not just do it all on the race track?
So I guess I'm siding with Moist.
>> Edited by DanH on Friday 21st April 23:13
See here :
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/no
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/no
Car/bike dicing. Biker
s up. Car driver gets 5 years. Certainly makes me think, although I feel the jury was wrong to hold the driver partially responsible for the bikers death. One of those cases where I suspect the fact he was in a 100k Porsche didn't play well with the jury. Of course there may be other factors that weren't reported, but regardless it does illustrate how this can all end in tears.
>> Edited by DanH on Friday 21st April 23:32
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/no
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/no
Car/bike dicing. Biker
s up. Car driver gets 5 years. Certainly makes me think, although I feel the jury was wrong to hold the driver partially responsible for the bikers death. One of those cases where I suspect the fact he was in a 100k Porsche didn't play well with the jury. Of course there may be other factors that weren't reported, but regardless it does illustrate how this can all end in tears. >> Edited by DanH on Friday 21st April 23:32
I was just passing Castle Coombe on Wednesday and nipped in to pick up some bits from the shop there and happened to hear (yuo couldn't miss it..) a couple of bikes testing. These guys were lapping in the 1.07s which is about 8s faster than a reasonable formula ford and probably 15s or so than a well driven Elise.
Now Coombe isn't that straight and has 2 large chicanes. I overheard the rider chatting to people after a few laps and this was the first time he'd been to the track and was just getting in some track time before the TT. I can't emphasise enough just how fast these things were - awesome doesn't do them justice.
On the road, I tend to side with Gooby but just a small traffic jam and you'll not see the bike for dust.
Personally, i'd rather be in a car, but you have to admire bikes.
Now Coombe isn't that straight and has 2 large chicanes. I overheard the rider chatting to people after a few laps and this was the first time he'd been to the track and was just getting in some track time before the TT. I can't emphasise enough just how fast these things were - awesome doesn't do them justice.
On the road, I tend to side with Gooby but just a small traffic jam and you'll not see the bike for dust.
Personally, i'd rather be in a car, but you have to admire bikes.
shangani said:
So I guess I'm siding with Moist.
>> Edited by DanH on Friday 21st April 23:13
I agree wholeheartedly with you Dan. I drive increasingly slowly on the road, the more I drive on the track. I was just waiting for Gooby to jump in...
I don't drive slowly on the road when appropriate, but I'm not up for racing. In the instance I recounted, I was just making progress as I would normally, but the bike decided it wanted to play. I think it overtook me at what must have been 120 on a well sighted but bumpy b-road. You can see why I wasn't happy with the situation. Reminds me, I need to do some more roadcraft lessons.
Gooby have you got your arse on track yet?
Some figures for a new suzuki gsxr 1000 (which is the litre bike to have atm)
0-60 3.42 secs
0-100 5.88 secs
0-170 20.36 secs
161.3 bhp - 166kg - £8799 - power to the people!
After considering this more i think a liz would struggle to keep up with a sportsbike on all but the tightest bumpy roads with a good rider, but if the bike was a supermoto (basically an off road bike with trick suspension & sticky road tyres) the car would struggle again. It is easier & safer to go round corners quickly in a liz especially on the road.
I do not advocate racing on the road & am sure neither does gooby, but following a bike/car on a spirited run as long as you are well within yours and the roads limits, and of course the law, is part of the joy of owning a performance bike/car imho
>> Edited by jakeD on Saturday 22 April 06:55
0-60 3.42 secs
0-100 5.88 secs
0-170 20.36 secs
161.3 bhp - 166kg - £8799 - power to the people!
After considering this more i think a liz would struggle to keep up with a sportsbike on all but the tightest bumpy roads with a good rider, but if the bike was a supermoto (basically an off road bike with trick suspension & sticky road tyres) the car would struggle again. It is easier & safer to go round corners quickly in a liz especially on the road.
I do not advocate racing on the road & am sure neither does gooby, but following a bike/car on a spirited run as long as you are well within yours and the roads limits, and of course the law, is part of the joy of owning a performance bike/car imho
>> Edited by jakeD on Saturday 22 April 06:55
Who said anything about racing? I / we were playing and it was both parties playing. He had the choice "not to" and I would respect that.
The 0-60 times and top end speeds are academic. Top end just not depend on the capabilities of the bike. A great friend of mine (who lost his licence on a bike doing 165 while racing a porker) points out that at about 120 - 130 the vibration through the bikes on a normal road shakes your head so much that it get hard to see and by about 140 -150 you are using luck more than skill.
I know a guy who passed us on a recent run (who had this confirmed on a ecu download) who did 163. No problem.
Are you still upset that I took the micky out of your VX? (The at the end of the statement means that I was having fun?)
I have my advanced driving qualification and continue my studies on a 4-5 week basis with an ex police driver trainer.
Please tell me you baught a turbo charged lotus to do 60mph on open clear roads. If so sell it and get a fiat. That will exceed your driving requirements.
The 0-60 times and top end speeds are academic. Top end just not depend on the capabilities of the bike. A great friend of mine (who lost his licence on a bike doing 165 while racing a porker) points out that at about 120 - 130 the vibration through the bikes on a normal road shakes your head so much that it get hard to see and by about 140 -150 you are using luck more than skill.
I know a guy who passed us on a recent run (who had this confirmed on a ecu download) who did 163. No problem.
Moist said:
Gooby, I reckon you could do with some advanced driving lessons as there is a lot of immaturity in your post.
All IMO of course.
Are you still upset that I took the micky out of your VX? (The
at the end of the statement means that I was having fun?) I have my advanced driving qualification and continue my studies on a 4-5 week basis with an ex police driver trainer.
Please tell me you baught a turbo charged lotus to do 60mph on open clear roads. If so sell it and get a fiat. That will exceed your driving requirements.
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