Discussion
As some of you know my head gasket went about 5 weeks ago, it was all fixed and i had a ported head fitted to make the most of a shit situation.
The car developed a problem this week and started misfiring on start up but only for 30 seconds or so. I assumed it was the ht lead as a split had been repaired recently and was due to be fixed properly anyway - i booked it in for saturday. On thursday i noticed the occasional puff of smoke from the exhaust, i rang the garage and we came to the conclusion that i may have put too much oil in it. I found this odd as i didnt put much in but hoped it would get through to saturday okay. On friday on the way home the temperature shot up to 105 deg within 5 mins of leaving work, i pulled over and topped up the coolant which was quite low (it was okay the day before) I managed to get home but the smoke was getting worse. On saturday morning the coolant was empty! I could not see where it had gone so filled it up again and started it up. After a couple of minutes i noticed water coming from the exhaust, then the smoke followed
I now have the first STEAM POWERED ELISE
I dare not drive it now, so it will be at the garage tomorrow, i hope its fixed for rockingham
>> Edited by jakeD on Monday 24th April 16:54
The car developed a problem this week and started misfiring on start up but only for 30 seconds or so. I assumed it was the ht lead as a split had been repaired recently and was due to be fixed properly anyway - i booked it in for saturday. On thursday i noticed the occasional puff of smoke from the exhaust, i rang the garage and we came to the conclusion that i may have put too much oil in it. I found this odd as i didnt put much in but hoped it would get through to saturday okay. On friday on the way home the temperature shot up to 105 deg within 5 mins of leaving work, i pulled over and topped up the coolant which was quite low (it was okay the day before) I managed to get home but the smoke was getting worse. On saturday morning the coolant was empty! I could not see where it had gone so filled it up again and started it up. After a couple of minutes i noticed water coming from the exhaust, then the smoke followed
I now have the first STEAM POWERED ELISE
I dare not drive it now, so it will be at the garage tomorrow, i hope its fixed for rockingham
>> Edited by jakeD on Monday 24th April 16:54
bad luck part 2...not a nice movie scene? to be in...
maybe you find some answers in this list...
Fixing the Problems
As a 1.8 litre there are, or were, two minor problems, design features of the basic engine which did give rise to problems when the engine was tuned. The first is the positioning of the thermostat in the cooling system, which was not designed for engines frequently put under heavy load. It was first designed as an efficient engine for lightweight front wheel drive cars, typically the Rover Metro and the current Rover 25, with good fuel consumption and requiring low emissions from start-up when the car was likely to see a large number of very short inner city journeys. It was thus designed to give very rapid warm up by placing the thermostat at the coolant inlet to the engine, where the thermostat measures essentially cooled water from the radiator with a very small quantity of heated water from the balancing circuit until the stat opens. This is a very unusual coolant path design, but is effective in its required purpose.
The system does not function well in cooling circuits with a radiator a long way from the engine in the cooling path, or for engines constantly seeing high engine speeds .The problem arises when the engine is put under heavy load, causing high engine temperatures that are not immediately read by the thermostat because cold water in the radiator and hoses has to pass the thermostat first. This can cause enormous thermal gradients across the engine, causing both distortion of the head and block and also gasket failure. The vehicle which suffered most from this was the Land Rover Freelander. Apparently, the typical owner for this vehicle is the middle class housewife and mother who use it for large numbers of short shopping trips to the supermarket!! Being heavy and 4x4, the 1.8 litre K’s tend to be pushed very hard from cold. This results in the engine getting very hot before the water can circulate and open the thermostat. Result – blown gasket. Early last year, Rover introduced a new thermostat, the PRT thermostat that will open with pressure as well as temperature, the result is that it opens much more quickly and prevents this thermal shock across the engine. There still appear to be problems with the Freelander, amid concerns that Ford have already executed a cost down on this new thermostat. However, it is quite apparent that as soon as the thermostat is moved to the output on the engine that temperature related gasket failure no longer becomes an issue. It is something of a surprise therefore that the Ford engineers concerned with the installation and performance of the K in the Freelander do not adopt this simple approach. The PRT thermostat is also a very expensive item that must be an issue with such pressure for cost downs. However effective the PRT thermostat is for a road car, a far more effective solution for any engine used on the track, and in fact any Elise with its problematic long coolant hose runs is to move the thermostat to the output side of the engine. Both Elise Parts.com and QED do inexpensive remote thermostat housings for this purpose. When one of these units is employed, the thermostat is measuring the engine temperature and is therefore able to control the coolant temperature quickly and sensitively.
Removing the thermostat altogether, as currently practiced by some, is no solution, firstly because engine warm-up becomes protracted, with all the implications for premature engine wear and secondly, because the engine temperature is at the mercy of the pump speed, if engine speed falls, the coolant in the radiator will cool disproportionately, then as soon as engine speed builds and engine temperature with it, the pump speeds to sends a mass of very cold water from the radiator suddenly to the engine. There is no thermostat to even this process out so the engine is repeatedly subjected to thermal shock. Bad for the head, bad for the block, and sooner or later the gasket will go. Fit the thermostat to the coolant output and the extreme temperature gradients that beset the engine when used on the track are significantly mitigated. Modification of this coolant path is something that Lotus should have done with all the K series engines in all their Elise’s, This would have then prevented any gasket failures.
Best of luck next? time...
GTRene
>> Edited by GTRene on Monday 24th April 13:06
maybe you find some answers in this list...
Fixing the Problems
As a 1.8 litre there are, or were, two minor problems, design features of the basic engine which did give rise to problems when the engine was tuned. The first is the positioning of the thermostat in the cooling system, which was not designed for engines frequently put under heavy load. It was first designed as an efficient engine for lightweight front wheel drive cars, typically the Rover Metro and the current Rover 25, with good fuel consumption and requiring low emissions from start-up when the car was likely to see a large number of very short inner city journeys. It was thus designed to give very rapid warm up by placing the thermostat at the coolant inlet to the engine, where the thermostat measures essentially cooled water from the radiator with a very small quantity of heated water from the balancing circuit until the stat opens. This is a very unusual coolant path design, but is effective in its required purpose.
The system does not function well in cooling circuits with a radiator a long way from the engine in the cooling path, or for engines constantly seeing high engine speeds .The problem arises when the engine is put under heavy load, causing high engine temperatures that are not immediately read by the thermostat because cold water in the radiator and hoses has to pass the thermostat first. This can cause enormous thermal gradients across the engine, causing both distortion of the head and block and also gasket failure. The vehicle which suffered most from this was the Land Rover Freelander. Apparently, the typical owner for this vehicle is the middle class housewife and mother who use it for large numbers of short shopping trips to the supermarket!! Being heavy and 4x4, the 1.8 litre K’s tend to be pushed very hard from cold. This results in the engine getting very hot before the water can circulate and open the thermostat. Result – blown gasket. Early last year, Rover introduced a new thermostat, the PRT thermostat that will open with pressure as well as temperature, the result is that it opens much more quickly and prevents this thermal shock across the engine. There still appear to be problems with the Freelander, amid concerns that Ford have already executed a cost down on this new thermostat. However, it is quite apparent that as soon as the thermostat is moved to the output on the engine that temperature related gasket failure no longer becomes an issue. It is something of a surprise therefore that the Ford engineers concerned with the installation and performance of the K in the Freelander do not adopt this simple approach. The PRT thermostat is also a very expensive item that must be an issue with such pressure for cost downs. However effective the PRT thermostat is for a road car, a far more effective solution for any engine used on the track, and in fact any Elise with its problematic long coolant hose runs is to move the thermostat to the output side of the engine. Both Elise Parts.com and QED do inexpensive remote thermostat housings for this purpose. When one of these units is employed, the thermostat is measuring the engine temperature and is therefore able to control the coolant temperature quickly and sensitively.
Removing the thermostat altogether, as currently practiced by some, is no solution, firstly because engine warm-up becomes protracted, with all the implications for premature engine wear and secondly, because the engine temperature is at the mercy of the pump speed, if engine speed falls, the coolant in the radiator will cool disproportionately, then as soon as engine speed builds and engine temperature with it, the pump speeds to sends a mass of very cold water from the radiator suddenly to the engine. There is no thermostat to even this process out so the engine is repeatedly subjected to thermal shock. Bad for the head, bad for the block, and sooner or later the gasket will go. Fit the thermostat to the coolant output and the extreme temperature gradients that beset the engine when used on the track are significantly mitigated. Modification of this coolant path is something that Lotus should have done with all the K series engines in all their Elise’s, This would have then prevented any gasket failures.
Best of luck next? time...
GTRene
>> Edited by GTRene on Monday 24th April 13:06
GTRene said:
bad luck part 2...not a nice movie scene? to be in...
maybe you find some answers in this list...
Fixing the Problems
As a 1.8 litre there are, or were, two minor problems, design features of the basic engine which did give rise to problems when the engine was tuned. The first is the positioning of the thermostat in the cooling system, which was not designed for engines frequently put under heavy load. It was first designed as an efficient engine for lightweight front wheel drive cars, typically the Rover Metro and the current Rover 25, with good fuel consumption and requiring low emissions from start-up when the car was likely to see a large number of very short inner city journeys. It was thus designed to give very rapid warm up by placing the thermostat at the coolant inlet to the engine, where the thermostat measures essentially cooled water from the radiator with a very small quantity of heated water from the balancing circuit until the stat opens. This is a very unusual coolant path design, but is effective in its required purpose.
The system does not function well in cooling circuits with a radiator a long way from the engine in the cooling path, or for engines constantly seeing high engine speeds .The problem arises when the engine is put under heavy load, causing high engine temperatures that are not immediately read by the thermostat because cold water in the radiator and hoses has to pass the thermostat first. This can cause enormous thermal gradients across the engine, causing both distortion of the head and block and also gasket failure. The vehicle which suffered most from this was the Land Rover Freelander. Apparently, the typical owner for this vehicle is the middle class housewife and mother who use it for large numbers of short shopping trips to the supermarket!! Being heavy and 4x4, the 1.8 litre K’s tend to be pushed very hard from cold. This results in the engine getting very hot before the water can circulate and open the thermostat. Result – blown gasket. Early last year, Rover introduced a new thermostat, the PRT thermostat that will open with pressure as well as temperature, the result is that it opens much more quickly and prevents this thermal shock across the engine. There still appear to be problems with the Freelander, amid concerns that Ford have already executed a cost down on this new thermostat. However, it is quite apparent that as soon as the thermostat is moved to the output on the engine that temperature related gasket failure no longer becomes an issue. It is something of a surprise therefore that the Ford engineers concerned with the installation and performance of the K in the Freelander do not adopt this simple approach. The PRT thermostat is also a very expensive item that must be an issue with such pressure for cost downs. However effective the PRT thermostat is for a road car, a far more effective solution for any engine used on the track, and in fact any Elise with its problematic long coolant hose runs is to move the thermostat to the output side of the engine. Both Elise Parts.com and QED do inexpensive remote thermostat housings for this purpose. When one of these units is employed, the thermostat is measuring the engine temperature and is therefore able to control the coolant temperature quickly and sensitively.
Removing the thermostat altogether, as currently practiced by some, is no solution, firstly because engine warm-up becomes protracted, with all the implications for premature engine wear and secondly, because the engine temperature is at the mercy of the pump speed, if engine speed falls, the coolant in the radiator will cool disproportionately, then as soon as engine speed builds and engine temperature with it, the pump speeds to sends a mass of very cold water from the radiator suddenly to the engine. There is no thermostat to even this process out so the engine is repeatedly subjected to thermal shock. Bad for the head, bad for the block, and sooner or later the gasket will go. Fit the thermostat to the coolant output and the extreme temperature gradients that beset the engine when used on the track are significantly mitigated. Modification of this coolant path is something that Lotus should have done with all the K series engines in all their Elise’s, This would have then prevented any gasket failures.
Best of luck next? time...
GTRene
>> Edited by GTRene on Monday 24th April 13:06
Interesting read.
jakeD said:
As some of you know my head gasket went about 5 weeks ago, it was all fixed and i had a ported head fitted to make the most of a shit situation.
If it failed again so quickly then most likely there can be two issues:
- Liners sit in the block too low or are un-even
- Head has softened last time
In both circumstances not enough clamping force is provided on the fire rings when tightened...
I do assume that the shop who did the work last time will fully warranty their work and help you out for free.
Bye, Arno.
don't assume it's the HG
could be the inlet manifold gasket..
what inlet manfold have you got?
if it's the black plastic one then did they change the gasket for the newer green one when the head was changed?
these cost pennies and tale about an hour to fit...
and Rene, will you please stop quoting from that King Dick bullshit?
>> Edited by scuffham on Monday 24th April 21:51
could be the inlet manifold gasket..
what inlet manfold have you got?
if it's the black plastic one then did they change the gasket for the newer green one when the head was changed?
these cost pennies and tale about an hour to fit...
and Rene, will you please stop quoting from that King Dick bullshit?
>> Edited by scuffham on Monday 24th April 21:51
would not be so bad, but the first version of this wonderfull document said this:
"There is no thermostat to even this process out so the engine is repeatedly subjected to thermal shock. Bad for the head, bad for the block, and sooner or later the gasket will go. Fit the thermostat to the coolant output and all cooling gasket problems will disappear, it’s as simple as that. Witness Simon Scuffam who has made this single coolant modification to his 220 bhp Elise, and runs in 2 hour races – non-stop and has no problem with gaskets – ever. Tony Shute take note. "
funny how that got edited out..... (after all, it was me that came up with this solution in the first place...)
"There is no thermostat to even this process out so the engine is repeatedly subjected to thermal shock. Bad for the head, bad for the block, and sooner or later the gasket will go. Fit the thermostat to the coolant output and all cooling gasket problems will disappear, it’s as simple as that. Witness Simon Scuffam who has made this single coolant modification to his 220 bhp Elise, and runs in 2 hour races – non-stop and has no problem with gaskets – ever. Tony Shute take note. "
funny how that got edited out..... (after all, it was me that came up with this solution in the first place...)
scuffham said:
don't assume it's the HG
could be the inlet manifold gasket..
what inlet manfold have you got?
if it's the black plastic one then did they change the gasket for the newer green one when the head was changed?
these cost pennies and tale about an hour to fit...
and Rene, will you please stop quoting from that King Dick bullshit?
>> Edited by scuffham on Monday 24th April 21:51
I hope its not all bullsh** thats why I posted it, tryiing to maybe help someone who knows English better then I do
but I try to remember next time 
I don't want to get you sleepless nights
GTRene
scuffham said:
don't assume it's the HG
could be the inlet manifold gasket..
what inlet manfold have you got?
if it's the black plastic one then did they change the gasket for the newer green one when the head was changed?
these cost pennies and tale about an hour to fit...
and Rene, will you please stop quoting from that King Dick bullshit?
>> Edited by scuffham on Monday 24th April 21:51
It is the black plastic one, no idea on the gasket, will find out - cheers
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