Rad and Cooling - advice and recs please :)
Discussion
Rad started giving up the ghost a month or so ago and now it's time has definately come as it started to hiss and p*ss proper in the corner top left yesterday. Also I've not been happy with the reading of the temp guage or the ECU reading over the last week either, as the differences have become ridiculous. The guage rises slowly to about 85-90, then the thermostat opens and it drops quickly down to 75-80 and then rises to about 85. The ECU on the other hand is now reading 35-40 degress less than the guage, so when the guage is at 80, the ECU says the temp is only 45-50, when the guage hits 100 the ECU says 60-65. The fans don't kick in when the guage reads 92 now and I don't want to trust an ECU temp of 92 to see if the fans kick in, as the guage (if it went up that far) would be reading 130 odd. I'm thinking a simple temp sensor replacement while I'm at it will solve this one though, but is there anything else I should look for? My existing rad also has only ever had one central fan (but there is a power connector under the beauty plate for the 2nd fan) so I also tried checking that it actually worked by disconnecting the sensor with the ign on and it didn't run so I'm assuming that it's bolloxed as well.
Summary: "It's all knackered"
Any recommendations on uprated rads and hoses for the Cerb and any suggestions on additional cooling solutions, as well as possibly a part number or supplier for the sensor and fans . I'm considering fitting a manual override switch for the fans as well, anyone done this?
Thanks all
Summary: "It's all knackered"
Any recommendations on uprated rads and hoses for the Cerb and any suggestions on additional cooling solutions, as well as possibly a part number or supplier for the sensor and fans . I'm considering fitting a manual override switch for the fans as well, anyone done this?
Thanks all
My Cerb has two fans - one larger than the other due to the A/C. I'm not aware if there was ever a single fan setup for the Cerb. Anyone?
On the paranoia and temp control side of things, I have Mark Adams solution to the problem, it's a programmable fan controller (you can set half and full speed fan cut in temps as desired) with a built in digital read out. The ECU control of the fans remains in place as a fail safe and the device itself has a further failsafe if its temperature sender fails. I found it very good for the nerves in Le Mans last year. It fits in place of the ash tray in my cerb, but could be located else where if that doesn't suit.
Steve.
On the paranoia and temp control side of things, I have Mark Adams solution to the problem, it's a programmable fan controller (you can set half and full speed fan cut in temps as desired) with a built in digital read out. The ECU control of the fans remains in place as a fail safe and the device itself has a further failsafe if its temperature sender fails. I found it very good for the nerves in Le Mans last year. It fits in place of the ash tray in my cerb, but could be located else where if that doesn't suit.
Steve.
Sounds like your gauge is doing the same thing as mine, reads 106° when the ECU is only reading 90°ish. Both sensors are right next to each other and one is lying! I'm betting its the gauge.
As for the hoses, I had a set of Tim@ACTs silicon pipes and SS hardpipes fitted when my engine came out, not a moment too soon looking at the old pipes that I got back!
Tim
As for the hoses, I had a set of Tim@ACTs silicon pipes and SS hardpipes fitted when my engine came out, not a moment too soon looking at the old pipes that I got back!
Tim
I have done quite a bit of work on my cooling system: I too only had one centrally mounted fan. This was the setup on earlier cars (mine being May 97) with no aircon. All the wiring is in place for the second fan, so I removed the rad, moved the existing fan to the left hand side (as viewed from driver's seat) and sourced the RH fan from a breakers (£75). The RH fan is thinner than the LH one. Plug fan into existing wiring and don't forget to plug a relay (£3.99) into the fuse board in boot, as the #2 fan relay location will be empty. The job is not particularly technically challenging, just fiddly. At the same time I replaced the rather sorry looking swans neck pipes (under the cover infront of the engine) with nice stainless versions from ACT (£115), and generally flushed everything out, replaced clips on pipes etc etc, seing as the cooling system was in bits anyway.
One of the reasons that the gauge reads higher than the ECU (about 10 degrees in my case) is that the capillary tube to the gauge from the sensor runs along the top chassis tube within a couple of centimetres of the o/s manifold! There is extra length in the capiliary tube, so I re-routed the tube away from its original location. It seems to read a bit cooler now, but I have not checked against the laptop reading.
Lastly I have just ordered a chip for the ECU (£65) from Track Car Solutions. This turns the fans on sooner. I have always thought that the fans come on very late, temp is climbing fast by the time they kick in, and with the single fan setup on a hot day I had overheating problems. Hopefully the chip will do the job, but I may end up putting an over-ride switch in as I had in my old Griff, so I could just turn the fans on at will, typically when I was sitting in traffic. This will not be so easy as the griff, (just a switch to short the otter switch) but I have a cunning plan to use the air-con switch already in situ and fire a relay or 2 via the cable that would engage the aircon clutch were it fitted.
Should the rad need attention, I had my Griff rad re-cored for £100. This is the same as the Cerb rad, I think so this gives you an idea of cost. The same guys also did a little job on the Cerb rad whilst it was out for £20.. A word of warning here, the job in question was to re-soulder the top hose joint as I accidentally flexed this such that it wept slightly when removing the rad. Be careful if you take it out that you do not do the same!
To get the rad out, it is much easier to take the bonnet off first. This is a task in itself. Again, not technically difficult but fiddly. I ended up with the whole air box and air intake scoop off to get access to the 4 bolts, but at least I could paint up the mounting brackets whilst it was off, as they were a rusty old mess!
Hope that helps!
Jon H
One of the reasons that the gauge reads higher than the ECU (about 10 degrees in my case) is that the capillary tube to the gauge from the sensor runs along the top chassis tube within a couple of centimetres of the o/s manifold! There is extra length in the capiliary tube, so I re-routed the tube away from its original location. It seems to read a bit cooler now, but I have not checked against the laptop reading.
Lastly I have just ordered a chip for the ECU (£65) from Track Car Solutions. This turns the fans on sooner. I have always thought that the fans come on very late, temp is climbing fast by the time they kick in, and with the single fan setup on a hot day I had overheating problems. Hopefully the chip will do the job, but I may end up putting an over-ride switch in as I had in my old Griff, so I could just turn the fans on at will, typically when I was sitting in traffic. This will not be so easy as the griff, (just a switch to short the otter switch) but I have a cunning plan to use the air-con switch already in situ and fire a relay or 2 via the cable that would engage the aircon clutch were it fitted.
Should the rad need attention, I had my Griff rad re-cored for £100. This is the same as the Cerb rad, I think so this gives you an idea of cost. The same guys also did a little job on the Cerb rad whilst it was out for £20.. A word of warning here, the job in question was to re-soulder the top hose joint as I accidentally flexed this such that it wept slightly when removing the rad. Be careful if you take it out that you do not do the same!
To get the rad out, it is much easier to take the bonnet off first. This is a task in itself. Again, not technically difficult but fiddly. I ended up with the whole air box and air intake scoop off to get access to the 4 bolts, but at least I could paint up the mounting brackets whilst it was off, as they were a rusty old mess!
Hope that helps!
Jon H
jon h said:
One of the reasons that the gauge reads higher than the ECU (about 10 degrees in my case) is that the capillary tube to the gauge from the sensor runs along the top chassis tube within a couple of centimetres of the o/s manifold! There is extra length in the capiliary tube, so I re-routed the tube away from its original location. It seems to read a bit cooler now, but I have not checked against the laptop reading.
That is a very valid point and one that I'd forgotten about. My capillary tube is cable tied to the water pipe alond the RH bank of the engine.
I've had my eye on an SPA gauge for a while but at £170 I thought it a bit of a luxury at the moment given the fact that I've spent a lot of money on the car recently.
Tim
Thanks for all the great replies and experience (and the superb detailed info on the actual work involved jon 
)
The Mark Adams temp gizmo seems like the way to go for this as you can set the cut in times and speeds independantly from the ECU. Like it! I'll get a price on an uprated rad from joolz and if the difference is marginal enough that'll be that sorted as well. Add in some nice new silicone hoses and shiny swan neck pipes from ACT and Summer driving will be much more relaxed. Especially seeing as I've got an 8 day hoon through France, Monte Carlo, Italy and Switzerland in mid-July. 
(and the superb detailed info on the actual work involved jon ) The Mark Adams temp gizmo seems like the way to go for this as you can set the cut in times and speeds independantly from the ECU. Like it! I'll get a price on an uprated rad from joolz and if the difference is marginal enough that'll be that sorted as well. Add in some nice new silicone hoses and shiny swan neck pipes from ACT and Summer driving will be much more relaxed.
Especially seeing as I've got an 8 day hoon through France, Monte Carlo, Italy and Switzerland in mid-July. One other useful thing my chip does is to not enable the cooling fans if you're doing a hot start .
ie if you've just parked up and the fans were on .. if you then need, say, to move your car immediately then the fans would kick in as soon as the ignition is switched on so taking valuable current from the starter motor .. my chip doesn't allow the fans to cut in until the engine is above 400rpm, so giving you full battery power for the hot start.
ie if you've just parked up and the fans were on .. if you then need, say, to move your car immediately then the fans would kick in as soon as the ignition is switched on so taking valuable current from the starter motor .. my chip doesn't allow the fans to cut in until the engine is above 400rpm, so giving you full battery power for the hot start.
trackcar said:
One other useful thing my chip does is to not enable the cooling fans if you're doing a hot start .
ie if you've just parked up and the fans were on .. if you then need, say, to move your car immediately then the fans would kick in as soon as the ignition is switched on so taking valuable current from the starter motor .. my chip doesn't allow the fans to cut in until the engine is above 400rpm, so giving you full battery power for the hot start.
Have just ordered one
Decided on a recore so took the rad to Brighton Radiators yesterday afternoon, just had a phone call and it's ready to pick up now!! and only £129... The new ss pipework and blue silicone hoses arrive tomorrow along (hopefully
) with the chip upgrade and a new ecu temp sensor. I also managed to pick up a new thermostat from a local motor factors for only 35 quid rather than the 58 quid a dealer wanted All in all it'll be 500 odd quid well spent for a complete overhaul of the cooling system. Now, what shall I do at the weekend I wonder
cossiemetro said:
leven sell the theromstat very cheap
ECK 1 - Engine Cooling Kit - Theromstat/Otter Switch/Water Wetter £37.15 £43.65
ECK 2 - Engine Cooling Kit - Theromstat & Otter Switch £21.19 £24.90
ECK 3 - Engine Cooling Kit - Water Wetter £16.10 £18.92
as per leven website
not for a cerb though
chim and griff prices they be.Gassing Station | Cerbera | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff