bloody gravel traps!!!
Discussion
Tell me about it...its soooooo annoying when you have only 20 minutes testing before a race and after a few laps someone gets their car stuck in the kitty litter! Then it takes ages to clear up and get the car out of the gravel! So in the end you only get 5-10 minutes testing 
Its also been the main cause for the damage on my alloys
....nasty stuff 
Its also been the main cause for the damage on my alloys
....nasty stuff agent006 said:
Gravel has the rather useful property of being able to stop a car travelling forwards. Tarmac's great if you're spinning, if you're heading straight on, it's not so good.
It also has a nasty habit of turning a sliding bike into an unguided missile...
Sadly i can't think of a better option.
fozzi said:
Please can someone get rid of these damned things and replace them with tarmac run offs?!!!!!!
How many races get ruined by running under safety cars after an innocuous little spin leaves a car beached in a dangerous place?
Lots of people seem to feel that tarmac run-off areas are bad because they don't punish a driver for making a mistake and running wide.
SamHH said:So losing 5-10 seconds and a couple places isn't punishment enough!!
Please can someone get rid of these damned things and replace them with tarmac run offs?!!!!!!
How many races get ruined by running under safety cars after an innocuous little spin leaves a car beached in a dangerous place?
Lots of people seem to feel that tarmac run-off areas are bad because they don't punish a driver for making a mistake and running wide.
agent006 said:So how do you explain the fact that the Silverstone gravel trap failed to stop Schumacher from getting injured when he skipped over it and hit the tyre wall straight on at the British GP a few years back, whereas a large tarmac run off was more than sufficient for Mansell to stop a three wheeler and avoid getting injured after his massive blow out in Australia?
Gravel has the rather useful property of being able to stop a car travelling forwards. Tarmac's great if you're spinning, if you're heading straight on, it's not so good.
Graham said:Maybe they should look at restoring the balance by having an area of tarmac run off which would allow both bikes and cars to retain some control when they run wide, but still have gravel further out to stop anything that clears the run off. This compromise solution would undoubtedly lead to more racing laps and less unnecessary retirements.
The trouble is the The high grip tarmac is better for cars, and the gravel is much safer for the bikers, as tarmac doesnt slow the riders down and is too hard for them when they come off the bikes.. So if a circuit is shared with bikes, you'll always get gravel in some places..
fozzi said:
So how do you explain the fact that the Silverstone gravel trap failed to stop Schumacher from getting injured when he skipped over it and hit the tyre wall straight on at the British GP a few years back, whereas a large tarmac run off was more than sufficient for Mansell to stop a three wheeler and avoid getting injured after his massive blow out in Australia?
That's a great idea, compare 2 completely different accidents.
The gravel trap in Schumacher's accident may not have stopped home completely (badly designed) bit it did lost him SOME speed. With failed brakes and a tarmac runoff he may as well have been 6 foot under before he left the track.
fozzi said:
a large tarmac run off was more than sufficient for Mansell to stop a three wheeler and avoid getting injured after his massive blow out in Australia?
If you mean the 1986 Aussie GP surely Mansell drove it up an access road ?
It's not quite the same as a run-off area at a corner where they'd normally use gravel.
monkeyhanger said:On all the US and Aussie street circuits, they have large tarmac run offs on pretty much every right angled corner, that being the line of the normal street.... call it access road if you like, but the tyre wall was about 200 yds back off the corner providing an extremely large run off area.. and it was sufficient space for him to get the car stopped!
a large tarmac run off was more than sufficient for Mansell to stop a three wheeler and avoid getting injured after his massive blow out in Australia?
If you mean the 1986 Aussie GP surely Mansell drove it up an access road ?
It's not quite the same as a run-off area at a corner where they'd normally use gravel.
>> Edited by fozzi on Sunday 30th April 10:03
agent006 said:I think you need to go back and watch the two incidents again!! They are actually very good contrary arguements, so a little less sarcasm with the rolling eyes if you don't mind mate!!
So how do you explain the fact that the Silverstone gravel trap failed to stop Schumacher from getting injured when he skipped over it and hit the tyre wall straight on at the British GP a few years back, whereas a large tarmac run off was more than sufficient for Mansell to stop a three wheeler and avoid getting injured after his massive blow out in Australia?
That's a great idea, compare 2 completely different accidents.
The gravel trap in Schumacher's accident may not have stopped home completely (badly designed) bit it did lost him SOME speed. With failed brakes and a tarmac runoff he may as well have been 6 foot under before he left the track.
Edited to add:
The reason I used those two examples, is because you referred to the two particular scenarios in your original post!
>> Edited by fozzi on Sunday 30th April 10:22
Mansell never really lost control of his Williams in 1986. The car was just more difficult to drive. Mansell was able to slow it down properly and steer it down the access road.
Although I hate gravel too - I hate vast tarmac run offs almost as much. They make the circuits look like giant car parks with the actual track demaracted by white lines. That to me is not a race track.
Trees, banks, benches, lamp posts, telegraph poles, hay bales and people make the best safety barriers
.
Although I hate gravel too - I hate vast tarmac run offs almost as much. They make the circuits look like giant car parks with the actual track demaracted by white lines. That to me is not a race track.
Trees, banks, benches, lamp posts, telegraph poles, hay bales and people make the best safety barriers
. 
Anyone watch the Moto GP 250cc race just now?....
The commentator just exclaimed, "Thank goodness there was tarmac there before the gravel!" after the biggest nearly accident that he'd ever seen!! Seems De Angelis had the opportunity to put the anchors on before the gravel trap and reduced his speed from something like 170mph!
So what do people think about my earlier compromise suggestion... thoughts for and against?
This compromise solution would undoubtedly lead to more racing laps and less unnecessary retirements... and in my opinion, has just proved it's case in Istanbul.
>> Edited by fozzi on Sunday 30th April 12:10
The commentator just exclaimed, "Thank goodness there was tarmac there before the gravel!" after the biggest nearly accident that he'd ever seen!! Seems De Angelis had the opportunity to put the anchors on before the gravel trap and reduced his speed from something like 170mph!
So what do people think about my earlier compromise suggestion... thoughts for and against?
fozzi said:
Maybe they should look at restoring the balance by having an area of tarmac run off which would allow both bikes and cars to retain some control when they run wide, but still have gravel further out to stop anything that clears the run off.
This compromise solution would undoubtedly lead to more racing laps and less unnecessary retirements... and in my opinion, has just proved it's case in Istanbul.
>> Edited by fozzi on Sunday 30th April 12:10
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