UK Spec C16 but imported - devalues?
Discussion
I'm thinking about looking at a 2000 C2 Cab which was originally bought in Austria as a UK spec C16 car (apparently it has the stickers). Does this affect its value both on the price I pay and when I sell it on? It came into the UK within a year or so from new and has been stamped with UK Dealers most of its life.
i think the answer to your question is that it depends if you are buying or selling. a dealer selling will tell you it doesnt matter, its a C16 so whats the worry. however, come to to sell it back....
all sorts of thigs affect the perceived and actual value of a car - the import label is definitely one of them.
all sorts of thigs affect the perceived and actual value of a car - the import label is definitely one of them.
My 993 was originally supplied in the Isle of Man but is a C16 with all correct stickers etc. I didn't really care where it was originally purchased from, since a C16 is a C16 spec wise and I was buying on condition anyway.
Whether 2000 cars are into the 'buy on condition' bracket yet.... well personally I'd have no problem with buying a C16 car and wouldn't expect to pay less for it if it has full service history and is a good car. However if you're just going to be given the runaround by dealers when coming to re-sell, then you have to take it into account. It'd definitely be worth getting opinions from the dealers here as to whether they would pay less for the car.
If you're going to keep it for long enough that when you come to sell, the condition of the car matters more than the purchase country, then I wouldn't be too concerned. Plenty of people were buying cars from European dealerships to UK specification across all marques back when there was a real price difference doing so.
Whether 2000 cars are into the 'buy on condition' bracket yet.... well personally I'd have no problem with buying a C16 car and wouldn't expect to pay less for it if it has full service history and is a good car. However if you're just going to be given the runaround by dealers when coming to re-sell, then you have to take it into account. It'd definitely be worth getting opinions from the dealers here as to whether they would pay less for the car.
If you're going to keep it for long enough that when you come to sell, the condition of the car matters more than the purchase country, then I wouldn't be too concerned. Plenty of people were buying cars from European dealerships to UK specification across all marques back when there was a real price difference doing so.
as5606 said:
I'm thinking about looking at a 2000 C2 Cab which was originally bought in Austria as a UK spec C16 car (apparently it has the stickers). Does this affect its value both on the price I pay and when I sell it on? It came into the UK within a year or so from new and has been stamped with UK Dealers most of its life.
My 99 Cab is C16 and was originally supplied from an OPC in Denmark. During my pre purchase checks I spoke to the Danish dealer and he confirmed everything about the car was genuine and judging by the dates between his registration and the V5 first registration (5 days) it was not used outside of the UK.
You say the one you are looking at was in Austria for less than 1 year. How long was it in Austria. HPi and similar checks will not cover anything other than the UK. Therefore, unless you personally know it's history whilst it was being used in Austria you don't know what could have happened to it. Of course the HPi type checks are not infallible but you do get insurance if you subsequently find out something nasty that was not shown on the check.
As a buyer I was not concerned that mine came from Denmark but did use it to try to drive the price down. The time lag would certainly make me think twice about your Austrian example. Of course a PPi and OPC warranty could provide much more peace of mind although reading some of the recent stories on PH it appears that even OPC warranties are not all there cracked up to be.
An OPC offered money on my Boxster (C16 bought in Germany) and once they had checked it out the value was not affected.
Wouldn't bother me at all on a car that's 2002 - might try to knock a few grand off but only because you know the purchaser saved money on original purchase, rather than the car being worth any less
Wouldn't bother me at all on a car that's 2002 - might try to knock a few grand off but only because you know the purchaser saved money on original purchase, rather than the car being worth any less
An Isle of Man or Channel Islands car should be C16 and have been imported via Porsche Cars GB, as I believe are N.Ireland cars.
However, a C16 car imported unofficially (ie directly from overseas)may be worth less, particularly in its early years. This is because, should any issues arise, perhaps relating to the sale of goods act or goodwill issues, then the point of sale will have been in an overseas territory.
Porsche Cars GB or UK OPCs may not be quite so helpful if they were circumnavigated at the time of the original sale. But, as the car becomes older this is of diminishing significance.
However, a C16 car imported unofficially (ie directly from overseas)may be worth less, particularly in its early years. This is because, should any issues arise, perhaps relating to the sale of goods act or goodwill issues, then the point of sale will have been in an overseas territory.
Porsche Cars GB or UK OPCs may not be quite so helpful if they were circumnavigated at the time of the original sale. But, as the car becomes older this is of diminishing significance.
Geneve said:
An Isle of Man or Channel Islands car should be C16 and have been imported via Porsche Cars GB, as I believe are N.Ireland cars.
However, a C16 car imported unofficially (ie directly from overseas)may be worth less, particularly in its early years. This is because, should any issues arise, perhaps relating to the sale of goods act or goodwill issues, then the point of sale will have been in an overseas territory.
Porsche Cars GB or UK OPCs may not be quite so helpful if they were circumnavigated at the time of the original sale. But, as the car becomes older this is of diminishing significance.
Nonsense. The C16 cars are exactly the same as the cars imported by UK dealers and displayed in their showrooms. When I sold my C16 Boxster S (owned from new) in the UK to a dealer he didn't even bother to say anything when i said I had imported it from Germany. Price was already agreed and he said "so what?". C16 means UK specification in every possible way
silver993tt said:
An Isle of Man or Channel Islands car should be C16 and have been imported via Porsche Cars GB, as I believe are N.Ireland cars.
However, a C16 car imported unofficially (ie directly from overseas)may be worth less, particularly in its early years. This is because, should any issues arise, perhaps relating to the sale of goods act or goodwill issues, then the point of sale will have been in an overseas territory.
Porsche Cars GB or UK OPCs may not be quite so helpful if they were circumnavigated at the time of the original sale. But, as the car becomes older this is of diminishing significance.
Nonsense. The C16 cars are exactly the same as the cars imported by UK dealers and displayed in their showrooms. When I sold my C16 Boxster S (owned from new) in the UK to a dealer he didn't even bother to say anything when i said I had imported it from Germany. Price was already agreed and he said "so what?". C16 means UK specification in every possible way
Absolutely. Where do you think Porsche UK get their cars? Do they whip them together somewhere in the UK I don't know about - the Isle of Wight maybe? As for the dealers in the UK, I've never had or come across any issues with C16 imports. They get paid to honour the manufacturer's warranty one way or the other, so it's all money in the bank as far as they're concerned. It may interest you guys to know that Porsche UK get paid a 5% "royalty" fee on every new parallel import car brought into the UK from outside of the UK network. In a lot of instances, these cars are being bought by customers that wouldn't buy from the franchised network in any event, or are being bought by those that couldn't get the cars they wanted when they wanted them through the Porsche UK dealers. It's a win/win for everyone, so whilst it's a fact that Porsche AG don't encourage it, they don't lose much sleep over it either. A high up official within Porsche AG once confided to me that as the whole exercise increased Porsche's market share, they weren't really in the least bit bothered.
So the only effect on the value of a C16 import is, in reality, caused by the perception amongst some of the Porsche buying public rather than a Porsche UK plot to stamp them out.
[quote=silver993tt
Nonsense. The C16 cars are exactly the same as the cars imported by UK dealers and displayed in their showrooms. When I sold my C16 Boxster S (owned from new) in the UK to a dealer he didn't even bother to say anything when i said I had imported it from Germany. Price was already agreed and he said "so what?". C16 means UK specification in every possible way[/quote]
I didn't say that C16 was different; I was referring to peripheral considerations.
C16 refers to the vehicle's specification. But, if the vehicle was bought from abroad, there may be no rights of redress through the UK retail network in the event of problems outside of warranty. These may need to be addressed via the territory from which the vehicle was purchased. This may, admittedly, be rare and this does not apply if the car is subsequently purchased from or sold back to a dealer in the UK, where consumer legislation then becomes the responsibility of the secondary retailer.
Nonsense. The C16 cars are exactly the same as the cars imported by UK dealers and displayed in their showrooms. When I sold my C16 Boxster S (owned from new) in the UK to a dealer he didn't even bother to say anything when i said I had imported it from Germany. Price was already agreed and he said "so what?". C16 means UK specification in every possible way
[/quote] I didn't say that C16 was different; I was referring to peripheral considerations.
C16 refers to the vehicle's specification. But, if the vehicle was bought from abroad, there may be no rights of redress through the UK retail network in the event of problems outside of warranty. These may need to be addressed via the territory from which the vehicle was purchased. This may, admittedly, be rare and this does not apply if the car is subsequently purchased from or sold back to a dealer in the UK, where consumer legislation then becomes the responsibility of the secondary retailer.
silver993tt said:
Nonsense. The C16 cars are exactly the same as the cars imported by UK dealers and displayed in their showrooms. When I sold my C16 Boxster S (owned from new) in the UK to a dealer he didn't even bother to say anything when i said I had imported it from Germany. Price was already agreed and he said "so what?". C16 means UK specification in every possible way
Much depends where the car was first registered new, if it was registered abroad & used extensively on the continent there is always that extra question-mark hanging over it's history, this DOES affect it's value a fair bit, as people feel safer with an all UK history & HPI checks etc.
But if it was imported directly from a main dealer, is C16 & registered as new in the UK, the official continental dealers stamp should be in the Service Book & you can verify the car is as claimed & fully UK spec.
BUT for a private sale most people would still expect to pay a little less for the hassle of checking with the foreign dealer & also knowing that the seller likley got a discount on the car when new (otherwise why import it). Also be aware that a few OPCs will not buy C16 cars that aren't UK supplied, ok most will, but they are still wary. An OPC buyer warned me that he has seen some C16 continental builds that had spec. variations he hadn't expected (he claimed to have seen two that didn't come with aircon!!!), hence the need to be a little more carefull with an imported C16.
Sorry gents an import C16, particually a newish car is worth less...........scinario
2 identical cars at same money, one imported C16, one UK Porsche dealer supplied, customer buys uk supplied car every time unless the import is cheaper........as the car gets older this difference dissolves
The C16 issue is a means for the OPC to try to protect their franchise and maintain healthy premiums - nothing else. The cars are completely identical. The relative price difference on imported and non imported C16 is mostly down to exchange rate fluctuations and that sometimes it is quicker to source it from a Continental Porsche Dealer as they obviously do not have a waitinglist for c16 specced cars. The rest of the difference is what Porsche UK OPC's try to carve out as extra margin to finance their glossy salesoffices.
Why not ask an OPC what C16 means ?
On the 996 I believe it was top tint windscreen, full leather and a rear wiper, --- for which of course you pay.
The 997 spec does not include the rear wipe.
Since most come from Germany (well some Boxsters etc come from Finland)--- and they are all manufactured by Porsche who have never knowingly manufactured a sub-standard car, what is there to worry about ?
Every car has a base spec plus a catalogue of accessory codes on the label under the front "hood". C16 merely defines a package of accessories.
On the 996 I believe it was top tint windscreen, full leather and a rear wiper, --- for which of course you pay.
The 997 spec does not include the rear wipe.
Since most come from Germany (well some Boxsters etc come from Finland)--- and they are all manufactured by Porsche who have never knowingly manufactured a sub-standard car, what is there to worry about ?
Every car has a base spec plus a catalogue of accessory codes on the label under the front "hood". C16 merely defines a package of accessories.
C16 spec does not guarantee the same as a C16 spec UK supplied car. Porsche changed the rules a couple of years ago. A good friend, Porsche independant dealer ordered a Boxter in silver and a Boxter S in blue for a friend of mine from the factory in C16 spec. When they finally arrived Porsche screwed up and sent a silver S and a blue Boxter. In the UK the S comes standard with air this S arrived without air. Porsche refused to take the cars back and when the a/c was questioned their reply was that it was never specifically requested when the car was ordered.
My understanding of C16 spec is that the car complies with UK type approval and our road traffic laws. (rhd lights etc.) Not that the car will have the same goodies that you get on a standard UK car from your local Porsche dealer.
My understanding of C16 spec is that the car complies with UK type approval and our road traffic laws. (rhd lights etc.) Not that the car will have the same goodies that you get on a standard UK car from your local Porsche dealer.
Geneve said:
I see that only POORCARDEALER understood my thread 
C16 is only part of the story.
It is and it isn't. Mentally, some buyers have a problem with imports because they haven't come from the franchised network in the UK. In my experience, there is no problem. Porsche issue their cars with a manufacturers warranty. Porsche UK are obliged to honour this in any event, but every dealer I have come across does so without any song or dance. If you're expecting the car to blow up within the first two years, you may prefer to have a car that has come from a UK Porsche showroom so that you are able to shout face-to-face at the person that sold you the car - if you feel that will get you further. But if the car has failed through no fault of yours, the warranty you get on a car sourced in mainland Europe isn't a poor relation to the warranty you get in the UK. Bear in mind - they weren't making these things in the UK the last time I looked, so you're buying an import one way or the other. The pricing differential is a reality on new/newish cars - no argument. But I would say that it shouldn't necessarily be the case.
To address the other comment above, C16 does not guarantee full UK spec. There are a couple of items that may need to be added to a C16 base-spec car to bring it to full UK spec. The fault you mentioned above was nothing to do with Porsche - it's the duty of the importer to verify the specification details and order the right bits and pieces. Currently, you need to make sure that a RHD C16 997 C2 is ordered with a top-tinted windscreen and full leather, for example. Porsche won't do it for you as a matter of course as they usually aren't in the business of assuming what you need. If the box isn't ticked, then that's the end of that.
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