Sagaris Handling Limit
Discussion
It looks like I found the limit for the Sagaris's great handling 
On Friday morning using the same road I drive every day and overtaking at the same point I overtake every day. Straight road in the dry you understand. The backend broke away and the car swerved off the road at right angles and hit the trees. The backend lifted in the air and the car spun another 360 before stopping a bit further down the road.
Needless to say the car is not too happy and neither am I. I hurt my back quite badly and although I did not break anything I'm suffering due the compression in my spine when the car slammed back down.
The car, according to the dealer, is repairable once they get the new chassis to build it on although it will most likely be 12 weeks. (or more)
The moral of the story is that although the Sagaris handling is very good,
it will still bite you if you push it to the limit.
Have fun but take care
David
On Friday morning using the same road I drive every day and overtaking at the same point I overtake every day. Straight road in the dry you understand. The backend broke away and the car swerved off the road at right angles and hit the trees. The backend lifted in the air and the car spun another 360 before stopping a bit further down the road.
Needless to say the car is not too happy and neither am I. I hurt my back quite badly and although I did not break anything I'm suffering due the compression in my spine when the car slammed back down.
The car, according to the dealer, is repairable once they get the new chassis to build it on although it will most likely be 12 weeks. (or more)
The moral of the story is that although the Sagaris handling is very good,
it will still bite you if you push it to the limit. Have fun but take care
David
David, thank goodness you are okay....
It's spooked me a bit because I was beginning to think that the Sagaris would never break away, it always seems so damn sure of itself....
Pits got himself into a tank slapper apparently at the 'Ring' and now you mate.
I suppose it's natural to keep pushing until you find the car's limit...but not so good if it takes you by surprise, as yours obviously did.
Really sorry to hear the car is a mess, but, as everyone has said, you are okay and that's what counts at the end of the day.
YP
It's spooked me a bit because I was beginning to think that the Sagaris would never break away, it always seems so damn sure of itself....
Pits got himself into a tank slapper apparently at the 'Ring' and now you mate.
I suppose it's natural to keep pushing until you find the car's limit...but not so good if it takes you by surprise, as yours obviously did.
Really sorry to hear the car is a mess, but, as everyone has said, you are okay and that's what counts at the end of the day.
YP
dvpeace said:
It looks like I found the limit for the Sagaris's great handling
On Friday morning using the same road I drive every day and overtaking at the same point I overtake every day. Straight road in the dry you understand. The backend broke away and the car swerved off the road at right angles and hit the trees. The backend lifted in the air and the car spun another 360 before stopping a bit further down the road.
Needless to say the car is not too happy and neither am I. I hurt my back quite badly and although I did not break anything I'm suffering due the compression in my spine when the car slammed back down.
The car, according to the dealer, is repairable once they get the new chassis to build it on although it will most likely be 12 weeks. (or more)
The moral of the story is that although the Sagaris handling is very good,
Have fun but take care
David
good to hear you are ok. TVR's always have the potential to bite, i still have nightmares about a 90mph plus tail out slide which lasted a good hunred metres in mine Cern 4.2 in the rain
My advice would be to make a fuss and encourage it being written off if possible as most insurance policies replace new with old in the first year. You will also have a b*stard time selling otherwise.
Do you really want a new chassis to be fitted to the car and the whole thing stipped to bits and rebuilt? Who covers the car after the strip and rebuild for the probs and for what period - you want to ask the repairing company / insurance company for this in writing.
They may consider this if the chassis is going to be 3-4 months plus repair time.... given costs of a hire car etc.
Bennno
>> Edited by bennno on Wednesday 3rd May 17:50
m12_nathan said:
Have you been back to the scene to try and work out what happened? It's nice to understand what went wrong after a crash IME (and there have been a few )
Yep, I thought I might have put a wheel on the grass, but no sign. there was slight bit of rubber left by the nearsire rear. Dealer has (needless to say APL) checked shocks, springs and tyre pressures. Could have been the diff but somehow seems unlikly. The road surface there is mixed tarmac so drivers side was not a new piece but that should not really matter in the dry, there is only one explanation and that must be that there was too much going through the rear to hold it togther and I was not good enough to save it. Although IMO it was lost after the first twitch.
Needless to say I will be thinking about it for some time yet!
OUCH! ...but you are Ok which is the main thing.I had a similar event in a Tuscan with cracked ribs and a beautiful set of bruises. Don't beat yourself up over what happend and check how the damage is going to effect resale before you accept the offer. I had a 2 year old Tuscan, I now have a new ( it was 05-I really must stop calling it new) T350 curtesy of Direct Line.Really sorry to hear David - as long as you're OK.....
Bit close to home this one - I did the same thing last summer in my Tuscan: dry, familiar road, overtaking in a straight line, guard down.......
I didn't have quite the ride you did, but I did require a new chassis and clean underpants......
Mine was being repaired at Austec when we spoke at their open day last year....I hope you're taking 12 weeks with a pinch of salt though!
It really is easy to get complacent with these cars (must be even easier in a Sag!), but the reality is to treat every time you ease your foot to the floor as a potential for disaster. Expect that twitch, scrutinise the road surface for anything untoward, but definitely don't assume that because you've driven a road a thousand times that everything will be the same.
Hell, I'm hardly one to preach, but I do know that I'm a different person driving my car post 'off'!
Hope all goes well for you mate.
Neill
- as long as you're OK..... Bit close to home this one - I did the same thing last summer in my Tuscan: dry, familiar road, overtaking in a straight line, guard down.......
I didn't have quite the ride you did, but I did require a new chassis and clean underpants......
Mine was being repaired at Austec when we spoke at their open day last year....I hope you're taking 12 weeks with a pinch of salt though!
It really is easy to get complacent with these cars (must be even easier in a Sag!), but the reality is to treat every time you ease your foot to the floor as a potential for disaster. Expect that twitch, scrutinise the road surface for anything untoward, but definitely don't assume that because you've driven a road a thousand times that everything will be the same.
Hell, I'm hardly one to preach, but I do know that I'm a different person driving my car post 'off'!
Hope all goes well for you mate.
Neill
massive relief you are ok and I'm not reading another thread like the horrendous T350C accident in SA. As DJC would say, if I may be so bold as to paraphrase 'you drank from the devil's cup but walked away. Raise a glass to the man upstairs, salute him, and henceforward carry a picture with you to always remind you what might have been'. Errrr.... or summat like that.
PS did the guy you overtook have anything of interest to recount? He must have had a grandstand seat.
PS did the guy you overtook have anything of interest to recount? He must have had a grandstand seat.
2 things:
As Arb has said, buy one for yourself and the big man and pay your respects to good fortune.
Second thing and you should *all* pay attention to this one:
You are dealing with downforce now. Aerodynamics. On a road car, in the real world. This isnt Martin Brundle describing what happened to somebody, losing df in the dirty air on the exit of Ascari 1 and Ascar 2 from the comfort of our TV. We read the magazines talking about splitters, wings and diffusers all the time now and so many kg's of downforce, etc. but for 90% of the time they are mental constructs only...you dont *feel* them. Above 70mph or so now, our cars are really starting to eat into the downforce aspects...we are not just in the realm of mechanical grip and TVR experience of yesteryear. We are into serious performance territory, racing territory but we are not on race tracks. The public road is a very very dangerous place to start exploring downforce because the surfaces mean that we *cannot* ensure a smooth and even flow of air operating upon our aero structures. If you are cornering or motoring hard and using your aeros to provide you with a significant extra performance vector, a slight bump in the road or other cause of interruption of smooth, even and consistent application of that force, will have sudden, immediate and very significant reduction of that performance enhancement, i.e. you might well find all your cornering effect that was being generated by df being suddenly transfered just to the mechanical grip which already near its limits and it being completely overwhelmed. If you are hammering hard down a straight and the rear is being sucked close to the ground using the rear Flap and Diffuser, hitting a patch of unsmooth tarmac *will* disrupt that air through the diffuser and you will lose that df effect. At high speed that will generate you significant tail end lift and result in the arse squirming and fishtailing.
We have to remember aeros are double edged swords and on the public road with their lack of smoothness, you cannot gaurantee the aero effect always working or working consistently. Ive raised my concerns in the past that I dont think the Sagaris rear damper rates are quite right and I have found myself bottoming out and reaching the bump stops quite a few times and it unsettles the rear a fair bit! Dv, do you remember at all if you felt your rear compress and go light?
As Arb has said, buy one for yourself and the big man and pay your respects to good fortune.
Second thing and you should *all* pay attention to this one:
You are dealing with downforce now. Aerodynamics. On a road car, in the real world. This isnt Martin Brundle describing what happened to somebody, losing df in the dirty air on the exit of Ascari 1 and Ascar 2 from the comfort of our TV. We read the magazines talking about splitters, wings and diffusers all the time now and so many kg's of downforce, etc. but for 90% of the time they are mental constructs only...you dont *feel* them. Above 70mph or so now, our cars are really starting to eat into the downforce aspects...we are not just in the realm of mechanical grip and TVR experience of yesteryear. We are into serious performance territory, racing territory but we are not on race tracks. The public road is a very very dangerous place to start exploring downforce because the surfaces mean that we *cannot* ensure a smooth and even flow of air operating upon our aero structures. If you are cornering or motoring hard and using your aeros to provide you with a significant extra performance vector, a slight bump in the road or other cause of interruption of smooth, even and consistent application of that force, will have sudden, immediate and very significant reduction of that performance enhancement, i.e. you might well find all your cornering effect that was being generated by df being suddenly transfered just to the mechanical grip which already near its limits and it being completely overwhelmed. If you are hammering hard down a straight and the rear is being sucked close to the ground using the rear Flap and Diffuser, hitting a patch of unsmooth tarmac *will* disrupt that air through the diffuser and you will lose that df effect. At high speed that will generate you significant tail end lift and result in the arse squirming and fishtailing.
We have to remember aeros are double edged swords and on the public road with their lack of smoothness, you cannot gaurantee the aero effect always working or working consistently. Ive raised my concerns in the past that I dont think the Sagaris rear damper rates are quite right and I have found myself bottoming out and reaching the bump stops quite a few times and it unsettles the rear a fair bit! Dv, do you remember at all if you felt your rear compress and go light?
TheArb said:
PS did the guy you overtook have anything of interest to recount? He must have had a grandstand seat.
I did not make it past him, when the car went I was nose alongside but when I realised that all was lost I stuffed the brakes and missed the back of his car (god knows how) I was convinced I was going to take him out too. He said he say me in is wing mirror and then I disappeared!
DJC said:
do you remember at all if you felt your rear compress and go light?
All good advise and point well made!
I drove down the road again this morning and there is a change in road serface under the right wheels only. I was doing about 60-70mph (2nd gear at full throttle). Basically it was all too much at that moment in time!
DJC said:
do you remember at all if you felt your rear compress and go light?
No he felt it expand then smell.
Nice story, just spoke to a racing driver at my dealers and he said for someone who has never tracked his car the explanation why somebody lost control of his car is very believable
>> Edited by yi8tvr on Thursday 4th May 10:37
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