Banks Twin Turbo Engine
Discussion
Hello there,
I'm just about to put my order in to Ted to join you lucky chaps with Ultimas! Sold my Cerbera today, so project Ultima (AKA Project Mayhem) can begin! I was down at the show in Stoneleigh last weekend and whilst there I got chatting to the chap from British American Engines? about the banks Twin Turbo small block engine. I would like to build something a bit special, has anyone ever considered their engine...
www.bankspower.com/twin-turbo-prod
Looks a bit pricey at around the 18K mark, but the power output is very impressive.
Would it fit or do you think the turbos would hit the rear bulkhead? I noticed on the forum that on the turbo engine someone has put together, the turbos look further back...
Also has anyone put 2 intercoolers in the side ducts? What are they like for cooling? Any good? It just seems like the best place to put them if you turbo...
I've got a turbocharged imp engine in a Modsport Davrian I race, and that gets bloody hot after only a 60 second run... Is under bonnet (boot?) temperature a problem on Ultimas?
Sorry about all the questions but these are exciting times!!
Many thanks,
Mart
I'm just about to put my order in to Ted to join you lucky chaps with Ultimas! Sold my Cerbera today, so project Ultima (AKA Project Mayhem) can begin! I was down at the show in Stoneleigh last weekend and whilst there I got chatting to the chap from British American Engines? about the banks Twin Turbo small block engine. I would like to build something a bit special, has anyone ever considered their engine...
www.bankspower.com/twin-turbo-prod
Looks a bit pricey at around the 18K mark, but the power output is very impressive.
Would it fit or do you think the turbos would hit the rear bulkhead? I noticed on the forum that on the turbo engine someone has put together, the turbos look further back...
Also has anyone put 2 intercoolers in the side ducts? What are they like for cooling? Any good? It just seems like the best place to put them if you turbo...
I've got a turbocharged imp engine in a Modsport Davrian I race, and that gets bloody hot after only a 60 second run... Is under bonnet (boot?) temperature a problem on Ultimas?
Sorry about all the questions but these are exciting times!!
Many thanks,
Mart
GTWayne said:
I considered using a turbo motor but was dissuaded by the excess heat issue.I have been in several normally aspirated Ultimas and conclude that 450bhp+ seems ample power and is achievable for 5K easy.The simplicity of NA also appealed to me.
Why would anyone want to put a 5k engine into a 89k car? 18k is not pricey at all, Ultima deserves something better than a simple chevy engine you would usually find on a domestic beater! If you want to go cheap, build a mustang...
When Richard took me out for a demo in the silver car back in Sept.01'he told me the motor had 420bhp.It may well have been changed since of course but if not, and you were impressed,see my point!It was not the power or speed that impressed me at the time but the dynamics(handling,braking,poise ect.)Truth be known, the main reason that I chose the Ultima was because the chassis was the most suitable to accomodate my 648.9bhp motor and modified G50.The point I was making about building a decent motor for 5K was that you do no need to spend tons more or indeed complicate the installation in order to reap rewards as the Ultima is abundant in more than just its ability to go fast with a stonking and expensive motor.I may be wrong but I was under the impression that Mustangs were built by Ford and not a self assembly component car.
>> Edited by GTWayne on Friday 5th May 01:51
>> Edited by GTWayne on Friday 5th May 01:54
>> Edited by GTWayne on Friday 5th May 01:51
>> Edited by GTWayne on Friday 5th May 01:54
this kit wont fit i dont think mate! sorry.
what sort of power are you after????
Nelson Racing over in the states do a very nice SBC that will put out abround 760bhp un normal fuel for $22k. Turnkey supply can sell you a supercharged LS2 that is putting out 700nhp (you could turn that up a bit with a simple pully swap, the bottom end is all forged and SOLID!!!). so Jeff on here is selling supercharged LS2 like the one crafy has.
if your set on forced induction then i would look the supercharger route. not as hard work as building a turbo setup (everything would have to be custom for the ultima) and i like the delivery, nice flat torque curve and power that just keeps climing. also you could adapt a conventional carb'ed engine later on if you wanted to do it.
just a few ideas and potions that dont come from american speed.
thanks Chris.
>> Edited by chuntington101 on Friday 5th May 07:12
what sort of power are you after????
Nelson Racing over in the states do a very nice SBC that will put out abround 760bhp un normal fuel for $22k. Turnkey supply can sell you a supercharged LS2 that is putting out 700nhp (you could turn that up a bit with a simple pully swap, the bottom end is all forged and SOLID!!!). so Jeff on here is selling supercharged LS2 like the one crafy has.
if your set on forced induction then i would look the supercharger route. not as hard work as building a turbo setup (everything would have to be custom for the ultima) and i like the delivery, nice flat torque curve and power that just keeps climing. also you could adapt a conventional carb'ed engine later on if you wanted to do it.
just a few ideas and potions that dont come from american speed.
thanks Chris.
>> Edited by chuntington101 on Friday 5th May 07:12
Hi Martin,
Well, there's plenty of engine options to choose from, but unless you're a die-hard turbo fan, I would go normally aspirated over forced induction.
You can supercharge, but this has it's own set of issues and with 700+HP engines now available from the factory, then there's little rationale for it?
It comes down to what you want from the car. If you want bragging rights down the pub, with few opportunities to use the power and all the issues which go with it (must be thoroughly warmed up, lumpy idle, cooling marginal, needs own oil field to run) - go for a monster.
If you want something with ample power, but is way more civilised to drive, go for something milder. It will still be faster than the Cerb (I kid you not) and onlookers couldn't give a stuff. Drive a stocker 350 powered Ultima and a 720hp Ultima down a street and both will snap knicker elastic just as easily
Either way, just dont treat it like the M3 in your profile
Well, there's plenty of engine options to choose from, but unless you're a die-hard turbo fan, I would go normally aspirated over forced induction.
You can supercharge, but this has it's own set of issues and with 700+HP engines now available from the factory, then there's little rationale for it?
It comes down to what you want from the car. If you want bragging rights down the pub, with few opportunities to use the power and all the issues which go with it (must be thoroughly warmed up, lumpy idle, cooling marginal, needs own oil field to run) - go for a monster.
If you want something with ample power, but is way more civilised to drive, go for something milder. It will still be faster than the Cerb (I kid you not) and onlookers couldn't give a stuff. Drive a stocker 350 powered Ultima and a 720hp Ultima down a street and both will snap knicker elastic just as easily
Either way, just dont treat it like the M3 in your profile
[quote=chuntington101]this kit wont fit i dont think mate! sorry.
When I was at Pro-alloy getting my dry sump tank made they actually had an Ultima with a Gale Banks twin turbo set up installed in it.I don't know how easy/difficult it was to install but it did fit (although it was very tight and awkward looking)On a seperate note Pro-alloy did a fantastic job and part of the reason for using them was because they had said Ultima in their workshop at the time and used this to measure and ascertain exact sizes for a four gallon tank as a made to measure item.
When I was at Pro-alloy getting my dry sump tank made they actually had an Ultima with a Gale Banks twin turbo set up installed in it.I don't know how easy/difficult it was to install but it did fit (although it was very tight and awkward looking)On a seperate note Pro-alloy did a fantastic job and part of the reason for using them was because they had said Ultima in their workshop at the time and used this to measure and ascertain exact sizes for a four gallon tank as a made to measure item.
Thanks for the all the responses! It's good to get some feedback from the people who have already been there :-)
I'm looking at building a car with +600bhp. If you are going to build a supercar then do it properly! I was just seeing what peoples preferences were wrt forced induction or normally aspirated... How reliable are the 640, 680 bhp American speed engines? Are they pretty bullet proof?
I just loved the picture of the Banks engine. That would look excellent in the back of an ultima!
I'm placing an order at the end of next week for the kit, so I'm sure I'll have lot's of 'help please' questions soon! :-)
Are any of you off to Le Mans this year? If so I'm on my stag night (dispite what I did to her M3!), so if you see a fat bloke dressed as Daffed - the only gay in the village, that'll be me. My 'mates' have a lycra suit made. Bast@rds! :-)
Cheers!
Mart
I'm looking at building a car with +600bhp. If you are going to build a supercar then do it properly! I was just seeing what peoples preferences were wrt forced induction or normally aspirated... How reliable are the 640, 680 bhp American speed engines? Are they pretty bullet proof?
I just loved the picture of the Banks engine. That would look excellent in the back of an ultima!
I'm placing an order at the end of next week for the kit, so I'm sure I'll have lot's of 'help please' questions soon! :-)
Are any of you off to Le Mans this year? If so I'm on my stag night (dispite what I did to her M3!), so if you see a fat bloke dressed as Daffed - the only gay in the village, that'll be me. My 'mates' have a lycra suit made. Bast@rds! :-)
Cheers!
Mart
Davrianman said:
Thanks for the all the responses! It's good to get some feedback from the people who have already been there :-)
I'm looking at building a car with +600bhp. If you are going to build a supercar then do it properly! I was just seeing what peoples preferences were wrt forced induction or normally aspirated... How reliable are the 640, 680 bhp American speed engines? Are they pretty bullet proof?
I just loved the picture of the Banks engine. That would look excellent in the back of an ultima!
I'm placing an order at the end of next week for the kit, so I'm sure I'll have lot's of 'help please' questions soon! :-)
Are any of you off to Le Mans this year? If so I'm on my stag night (dispite what I did to her M3!), so if you see a fat bloke dressed as Daffed - the only gay in the village, that'll be me. My 'mates' have a lycra suit made. Bast@rds! :-)
Cheers!
Mart
Like anything, the higher the state of tune, the more fragile it's likely to be.
That said, I didn't have any bother with my 630hp supercharged AS engine other than it being hard to cool.
The ally blocked engines need more care, like thoroughly warming the oil before giving it the beans etc. It's down to budget, requirement and convenience really.
Mart,
Glad to hear you will be building one of these. It will be a great car. If you are really set on turbo (which I personally prefer too) maybe some of these links will provide you with some more info. There will be lots of fabbing, but all worth it in the end if everything is built correctly. You can run a low to mid boost set-up and have good every day reliability. And if course turn up the boost should you need to for that extra kick every once in a while. Good luck and keep us posted. OK, below are links of sites I have come across in my endless search for more Ultima information (I will build one someday).
Jeff's Twin Turbo build up: www.schwartzperformance.com/alien.htm
I rode in this car last year as a N/A LS6 engine and it was amazing. I can't imagine what it will be like with the Turbos. It was brutal as it is with the G-forces you feel during acceleration and braking. And by brutal I mean, absolutely amazing, adrenaline rush, puts a permanent smile on your face that won't wipe off for days kind of feeling.
Brammo offers kits (if you have the $$). www.brammo.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=39&Itemid=115
Spectrum 5 has a kit shown if you click on the header link. www.spectrum5racing.com/
Here is another that was built up for lots of power: www.spectrum5racing.com/Projects/kurtgtrproject.htm
There are a pair of twin turbo Ultimas in Sweden. www.ultimatestreet.com/
Here are a few links to supercharged Ultimas in case you want to look at that method if FI.
Here is Crafty's Supercharged LS2 Ultima. It will also be a monster. http://spaces.msn.com/ultimaGTR/
And can't forget Dave's supercharged Can-Am. www.v8yes.co.uk/index.html
And what would this list be without Stig's monster. www.ultima-gtr.info/
>> Edited by Hugger Z on Friday 5th May 14:31
>> Edited by Hugger Z on Friday 5th May 14:32
Glad to hear you will be building one of these. It will be a great car. If you are really set on turbo (which I personally prefer too) maybe some of these links will provide you with some more info. There will be lots of fabbing, but all worth it in the end if everything is built correctly. You can run a low to mid boost set-up and have good every day reliability. And if course turn up the boost should you need to for that extra kick every once in a while. Good luck and keep us posted. OK, below are links of sites I have come across in my endless search for more Ultima information (I will build one someday).
Jeff's Twin Turbo build up: www.schwartzperformance.com/alien.htm
I rode in this car last year as a N/A LS6 engine and it was amazing. I can't imagine what it will be like with the Turbos. It was brutal as it is with the G-forces you feel during acceleration and braking. And by brutal I mean, absolutely amazing, adrenaline rush, puts a permanent smile on your face that won't wipe off for days kind of feeling.
Brammo offers kits (if you have the $$). www.brammo.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=39&Itemid=115
Spectrum 5 has a kit shown if you click on the header link. www.spectrum5racing.com/
Here is another that was built up for lots of power: www.spectrum5racing.com/Projects/kurtgtrproject.htm
There are a pair of twin turbo Ultimas in Sweden. www.ultimatestreet.com/
Here are a few links to supercharged Ultimas in case you want to look at that method if FI.
Here is Crafty's Supercharged LS2 Ultima. It will also be a monster. http://spaces.msn.com/ultimaGTR/
And can't forget Dave's supercharged Can-Am. www.v8yes.co.uk/index.html
And what would this list be without Stig's monster. www.ultima-gtr.info/
>> Edited by Hugger Z on Friday 5th May 14:31
>> Edited by Hugger Z on Friday 5th May 14:32
You could always look at the Pro-charger install that Canam Dave is doing, you'd get a similar torque curve to a turbo, though not quite as peaky, but at least you'd not have to deal with all the complex plumbing and heat radiating off the turbos...
Or a fit a roots blower like Stigs old GTR had (a little bit of clearance issues though), or like the Magnacharger that Crafty is fitting (LSX Engine though) which has the intake to the rear...
The Chevy has a very wide torque band compared to a 'normal' turbo car, so it's easy to pootle around at 50mph in top gear, yet it will pull away without you having to change gear... so in that respect it's a bit differant from a turbo. My gearbox (G50/21 6 speed) is obviously suited to a turbo as it's quite closely spaced in the ratios, so I can start in 2nd, go straight to 4th and then to 6th no problems at all...
My NA 383 engine was done by Peter Knight in the UK, and has just over 500bhp, and that's more than enough for me!
Or a fit a roots blower like Stigs old GTR had (a little bit of clearance issues though), or like the Magnacharger that Crafty is fitting (LSX Engine though) which has the intake to the rear...
The Chevy has a very wide torque band compared to a 'normal' turbo car, so it's easy to pootle around at 50mph in top gear, yet it will pull away without you having to change gear... so in that respect it's a bit differant from a turbo. My gearbox (G50/21 6 speed) is obviously suited to a turbo as it's quite closely spaced in the ratios, so I can start in 2nd, go straight to 4th and then to 6th no problems at all...
My NA 383 engine was done by Peter Knight in the UK, and has just over 500bhp, and that's more than enough for me!
Davrianman said:
I'm looking at building a car with +600bhp. If you are going to build a supercar then do it properly! I was just seeing what peoples preferences were wrt forced induction or normally aspirated... How reliable are the 640, 680 bhp American speed engines? Are they pretty bullet proof?
Mart
I have one of these 685bhp and I am happy ......
GTWayne said:
[quote=chuntington101]this kit wont fit i dont think mate! sorry.
When I was at Pro-alloy getting my dry sump tank made they actually had an Ultima with a Gale Banks twin turbo set up installed in it.I don't know how easy/difficult it was to install but it did fit (although it was very tight and awkward looking)On a seperate note Pro-alloy did a fantastic job and part of the reason for using them was because they had said Ultima in their workshop at the time and used this to measure and ascertain exact sizes for a four gallon tank as a made to measure item.
haha ok mate im gues im wrong!
you got any pics or links of this car???
if they fit then the nelson racing twin turbo engine might fit!!!!!
www.nelsonracingengines.com
thanks Chris
Hi i went to stonleigh and saw a dakar4x4 of elliots there
the plumbing didn't look too bad
the advantage of power from forced induction is that in normally aspirated the extra power comes from revving high
this high revving is what kills the engine see corky bells book on turbocharging
i am looking a twin turbocharging my ultima using megasquirt for control of fuel and spark
www.mez.co.uk/
i know elliots is in a dakar but i want to do something similar on a budget
the plumbing didn't look too bad
the advantage of power from forced induction is that in normally aspirated the extra power comes from revving high
this high revving is what kills the engine see corky bells book on turbocharging
i am looking a twin turbocharging my ultima using megasquirt for control of fuel and spark
www.mez.co.uk/
i know elliots is in a dakar but i want to do something similar on a budget
Wow! lots of info! Thanks a lot for all the links!
Spoke to Rich at the factory today. Placing the order for the first 6 stages tomorrow. Need to start clearing out the garage in preperation. Just putting my Davrian race engine back together at the moment. Only 1L but 170bhp. Funnily enough, it's this old 1965 Imp engine that's inspiring me to build a turbo engine for the Ultima.
I just fancy doing something a bit different (maybe not that different looking at all the links!!) I just love the thrill of driving a turbo charged car!
Well watch this space!
Cheers,
Mart
Spoke to Rich at the factory today. Placing the order for the first 6 stages tomorrow. Need to start clearing out the garage in preperation. Just putting my Davrian race engine back together at the moment. Only 1L but 170bhp. Funnily enough, it's this old 1965 Imp engine that's inspiring me to build a turbo engine for the Ultima.
I just fancy doing something a bit different (maybe not that different looking at all the links!!) I just love the thrill of driving a turbo charged car!
Well watch this space!
Cheers,
Mart
Hi there!
Basically it's just tuned to the 9's :-)
I run a chessman wedge head with a 410 hartwell cam, forged pistons and EN34 rods. The turbo is a custom IHI with a homemade 4 into 1 manifold. I have used an intercooler off an RS escort with a aftermarket dumpvalve. The block is low compression by using longstroke bores with a spacer plate but a std. stroke crank. I run it at 17psi boost. Transmission is through a straightcut JK box with an LSD.
We saw 149 bhp at the wheels on the rolling road before the manifold melted :-) :-)
I'll dig some piccies out is you want to be really bored!! :-)
Hijack over!
Mart
Basically it's just tuned to the 9's :-)
I run a chessman wedge head with a 410 hartwell cam, forged pistons and EN34 rods. The turbo is a custom IHI with a homemade 4 into 1 manifold. I have used an intercooler off an RS escort with a aftermarket dumpvalve. The block is low compression by using longstroke bores with a spacer plate but a std. stroke crank. I run it at 17psi boost. Transmission is through a straightcut JK box with an LSD.
We saw 149 bhp at the wheels on the rolling road before the manifold melted :-) :-)
I'll dig some piccies out is you want to be really bored!! :-)
Hijack over!
Mart
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