Enormous Unacompanied Tractors
Discussion
I was following a tractor last night on a road near my home. It had double wheels on the rear and some large farm implement on the back. Basically it took up the whole road (normal two way road). A car came the other way on a blind corner which had to drive well up on the verge as the "beast" also moved over but still took up 3/4 the road. The night before I was coming that way in an "enthusiastic manner" and although not breaking the limit I feel I would have lost the side of my car.
The question is this. Does a vehicle this size not need an escort? A warning vehicle ahead of the "beast" would prevent a potential crash.
If I had hit it, would they be liable for damage as they had an oversize load? Or is it the old "Farmers are exempt from lights / mud on road/ signaling....."
The question is this. Does a vehicle this size not need an escort? A warning vehicle ahead of the "beast" would prevent a potential crash.
If I had hit it, would they be liable for damage as they had an oversize load? Or is it the old "Farmers are exempt from lights / mud on road/ signaling....."
Maximum width permittable for agricultural vehicles is 2.55m.
That wouldn't require an escort or anything, but where it carries an abnormal load (that results in overhang front/rear) it would require a mixture of markers, attendants or Police notification.
2 days notice of any vehicle vehicle/load over 2.9m wide being moved on a road, must be given to Police, who would decide whether it required a Police escort.
>> Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 6th May 17:18
That wouldn't require an escort or anything, but where it carries an abnormal load (that results in overhang front/rear) it would require a mixture of markers, attendants or Police notification.
2 days notice of any vehicle vehicle/load over 2.9m wide being moved on a road, must be given to Police, who would decide whether it required a Police escort.
>> Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 6th May 17:18
18 months ago, my son collided with one of these 'wide' tractor trailer units on a NSL country road at 11.15pm. Tractor/trailer unit did not have lighs of any description, but the farmer was being followed by his wife in a Landrover with lights on. Sons car was written off with minimal damage to trailer unit. When I arrived on the scene 15 minutes later, the farmer just said "F*** off and leave us alone. The BiB were called and told me the strangest thing I have ever heard, His words were "An agricultural vehicle that cannot excede 18mph does not require lights"
Statements were taken from both parties, No mention of farmers wife following because when BIB arrived some 60 min later Farmer had parked up tractor with no lights and was now driving a smaller one not capable of towing such a large trailer but did have lights.
Son lost his no-claims but now hates farmers and also BiB for not believing him
Statements were taken from both parties, No mention of farmers wife following because when BIB arrived some 60 min later Farmer had parked up tractor with no lights and was now driving a smaller one not capable of towing such a large trailer but did have lights.
Son lost his no-claims but now hates farmers and also BiB for not believing him
vonhosen said:
2 days notice of any vehicle vehicle/load over 2.9m wide being moved on a road, must be given to Police, who would decide whether it required a Police escort.
>> Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 6th May 17:18
No wonder farmers don't follow the process then, if it takes 2 days' notice. Much easier to do it and hope.
....all together now " Yewvf gotta bran noo kombine arfvester, and oive got the key"
Normally vehicles which exceed the permitted width stipulated under MV Cons Use Regs 1984 cannot be used on a road. However use can be made if certain conditions under Con and Use Regs or MV (Authorisation of Special Types) General Order 1979 are complied with.
In relation to Agricultural Vehicles then the normal width under Con and Use allowed is 2.55 metres. Certain conditions apply under/over this width if rearward/forward projections exceed certain dimensions requiring projections to be marked, 24 hrs notice to Police if projection exceeds 4 metres and over 6 metres a person additional to the driver to warn others.
For Wide Agricultural vehicles conditions under Article 13/A Special Types Order:
Width Exceeding (WE) 2.55m - max speed 20 mph
WE - 3.5m - speed n/e 12 mph.
WE 3 m - 24 hr Notice to Police if use is on a road where speed limit is 40mph or less or distance exceeds 5 miles. Police can put conditions as to time of movement and whether they will provide escort or not.
WE 3.55 m - person other than driver to be present to warn others of movement. Extremites of vehicle must be clearly marked and lit at night or in poor visibility.
Maximum width - 4.3 metres.
If any of the conditions breached then offence of using a vehicle exceeding permitted width under Con and Use.
Poster highlights that a driver using country roads should anticipate the movement of large Ag/Vehs especially at seed time and harvest.
This is an area of law that a Road Policing Officer will not, dare I suggest, have an in depth knowledge of and the demise of the Country beat officer allows uncontrolled use of such vehicles which can be a danger.
dvd
>> Edited by Dwight VanDriver on Saturday 6th May 18:11
Normally vehicles which exceed the permitted width stipulated under MV Cons Use Regs 1984 cannot be used on a road. However use can be made if certain conditions under Con and Use Regs or MV (Authorisation of Special Types) General Order 1979 are complied with.
In relation to Agricultural Vehicles then the normal width under Con and Use allowed is 2.55 metres. Certain conditions apply under/over this width if rearward/forward projections exceed certain dimensions requiring projections to be marked, 24 hrs notice to Police if projection exceeds 4 metres and over 6 metres a person additional to the driver to warn others.
For Wide Agricultural vehicles conditions under Article 13/A Special Types Order:
Width Exceeding (WE) 2.55m - max speed 20 mph
WE - 3.5m - speed n/e 12 mph.
WE 3 m - 24 hr Notice to Police if use is on a road where speed limit is 40mph or less or distance exceeds 5 miles. Police can put conditions as to time of movement and whether they will provide escort or not.
WE 3.55 m - person other than driver to be present to warn others of movement. Extremites of vehicle must be clearly marked and lit at night or in poor visibility.
Maximum width - 4.3 metres.
If any of the conditions breached then offence of using a vehicle exceeding permitted width under Con and Use.
Poster highlights that a driver using country roads should anticipate the movement of large Ag/Vehs especially at seed time and harvest.
This is an area of law that a Road Policing Officer will not, dare I suggest, have an in depth knowledge of and the demise of the Country beat officer allows uncontrolled use of such vehicles which can be a danger.
dvd
>> Edited by Dwight VanDriver on Saturday 6th May 18:11
TOPTON said:
.... when BIB arrived some 60 min later Farmer had parked up tractor with no lights and was now driving a smaller one not capable of towing such a large trailer but did have lights.
Son lost his no-claims but now hates farmers and also BiB for not believing him
A reason to always carry a camera in the car and in the event of an incident take a large number of photos! The idea that even the act of doing so would dissuade dodgy characters from "trying it on".
Gareth
scotty2 said:
The night before I was coming that way in an "enthusiastic manner" and although not breaking the limit I feel I would have lost the side of my car.
Dwight VanDriver said:
Poster highlights that a driver using country roads should anticipate the movement of large Ag/Vehs especially at seed time and harvest.
I live in rural Cheshire and these incidents are common-place. Never mind the rights and wrongs of it (it's 'wrong' to exceed the speed limit but most PH's think that's OK) you really *do not* want to hit a ruddy great tractor at speed. Or a herd of cows that are being moved or have escaped. Or the back of a queue, stopped just around a bend, at temp traffic lights while road repairs are underway.
A lad was killed just down the road from me by someone who admitted going around a tight bend at 50MPH (NSL applied, so he was driving 'safely') when he could only see '30yds' (in reality you can't see more 10yds around that bend).
deva link said:
Or the back of a queue, stopped just around a bend, at temp traffic lights while road repairs are underway.
One very good reason for having a Radar/Laser detector in the car; these things go off when they pick up traffic lights and always very suspicious when this happens in the countryside. Invariably it turns out to be temporary traffic lights which have little advance warning by temporary signs.
deva link said:
...snip...
A lad was killed just down the road from me by someone who admitted going around a tight bend at 50MPH (NSL applied, so he was driving 'safely') when he could only see '30yds' (in reality you can't see more 10yds around that bend).
That'll be something about being able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear. Trouble with the big tractor coming the other way is that even if you can stop, they may not be able to.
Graham
scotty2 said:
I was following a tractor last night on a road near my home. It had double wheels on the rear and some large farm implement on the back. Basically it took up the whole road (normal two way road). A car came the other way on a blind corner which had to drive well up on the verge as the "beast" also moved over but still took up 3/4 the road. The night before I was coming that way in an "enthusiastic manner" and although not breaking the limit I feel I would have lost the side of my car.
The question is this. Does a vehicle this size not need an escort? A warning vehicle ahead of the "beast" would prevent a potential crash.
If I had hit it, would they be liable for damage as they had an oversize load? Or is it the old "Farmers are exempt from lights / mud on road/ signaling....."
You've got to drive at a speed that allows you to stop in the distance that you can see to be clear, which is common sense, really.
No, I don't either, but its a chance you take. I plowed into a herd of cows once.
I know you should be prepared to stop in the event of an unseen (!) event but I was just trying to find out if it (very wide vehicle) should be there in the first place!
It helps the odds if things like that are accompanied, and pi**e* me off that if they are not supposed to be there, I am being put at risk needlessly. If it was supposed to be accompanied then I'd file a call. Might save someone - even me!
It helps the odds if things like that are accompanied, and pi**e* me off that if they are not supposed to be there, I am being put at risk needlessly. If it was supposed to be accompanied then I'd file a call. Might save someone - even me!
deva link said:
I live in rural Cheshire and these incidents are common-place. Never mind the rights and wrongs of it (it's 'wrong' to exceed the speed limit but most PH's think that's OK) you really *do not* want to hit a ruddy great tractor at speed. Or a herd of cows that are being moved or have escaped. Or the back of a queue, stopped just around a bend, at temp traffic lights while road repairs are underway.
A lad was killed just down the road from me by someone who admitted going around a tight bend at 50MPH (NSL applied, so he was driving 'safely') when he could only see '30yds' (in reality you can't see more 10yds around that bend).
Never mind the rights and wrongs of it but wouldn't it be a responsible thing to do posting someone with a warning sign, flag, torch etc? if it's so commonplace. I believe workmen put these things up when they put a hazard in the road or are farmers exempt from common sense and conscience?
bucket of water on standby
Been meaning to start a thread about tractors etc.
Live in Lincs so they are everywhere on the roads at the moment, most have no lights (not even flashing ones) and the trailers look totally illegal.
I passed one on the other side of the road the other day at 5:15pm (peaktime), guess how many vehicles stuck behind it as it was a main road (A17)......
82!!!!!!
Why the hell didn't the dimwit pull over!!!!???!!!
Live in Lincs so they are everywhere on the roads at the moment, most have no lights (not even flashing ones) and the trailers look totally illegal.
I passed one on the other side of the road the other day at 5:15pm (peaktime), guess how many vehicles stuck behind it as it was a main road (A17)......
82!!!!!!
Why the hell didn't the dimwit pull over!!!!???!!!
Oddly enough this feature on Vine prog today.
Person ask if tractor could be prosecuted for holding up traffic. Cambridgshire POLICE reply that they would investigte footage und prosecute under S2 of RTA 1988 as "undue care"
Apparently there ist some little known law which no one abide by in UK but which Austria, Italy und Switzerland draconian over
Und ist to use the occasional lay by und let the traffic build up pass This law mentioned a few times in course of the programme. It exist in UK as well as mainland Europe.
Person ask if tractor could be prosecuted for holding up traffic. Cambridgshire POLICE reply that they would investigte footage und prosecute under S2 of RTA 1988 as "undue care"
Apparently there ist some little known law which no one abide by in UK but which Austria, Italy und Switzerland draconian over
Und ist to use the occasional lay by und let the traffic build up pass This law mentioned a few times in course of the programme. It exist in UK as well as mainland Europe. Ach! :bangehead:
But I forget most important point they all raised
"The art of overtaking seems to be a forgotten skill" #
Und the other
"Modern tractors can travel at speed up to 50 mph und they all have breaking system similar to that of any other vehicle. Yet they have to observe speed limit of just 20 mph.
Of course some referred to no using mirrors und some other stuff about young boys being allowed to drive these contraptions. Some as young as 11 years.
Surely ist a machine und rule of only being allowed to operate certain type of machinery at age 16 und be trained to use more advanced machines at age 18 should apply. Ist HSE stuff - surely
But I forget most important point they all raised
"The art of overtaking seems to be a forgotten skill" #
Und the other
"Modern tractors can travel at speed up to 50 mph und they all have breaking system similar to that of any other vehicle. Yet they have to observe speed limit of just 20 mph.
Of course some referred to no using mirrors und some other stuff about young boys being allowed to drive these contraptions. Some as young as 11 years.
Surely ist a machine und rule of only being allowed to operate certain type of machinery at age 16 und be trained to use more advanced machines at age 18 should apply. Ist HSE stuff - surely
I freqently escort a mate of mine in his John Deere 7520 or the JD Combine between fields during harvest. I drive in front with a 4 foot WIDE LOAD sign and flashing amber roof lights plus hazards and headlights in my Landy 90. Tractor is behind me lit up like the big submersible from the film 'The Abyss ' (it has 14 work lights on it, so you really can't miss it). It has a top speed of 22 i think.
At each junction or blind bend in the road I go ahead and park (in a safe place where I can easily be seen) around the corner blocking most of the road and waving people to stop / pull over. It never ceases to amaze me the number of people who insist on squeezing past me only to be confronted by 12 tonnes of tractor covering 3 quarters of the road, the look on thier faces is pricless !
At each junction or blind bend in the road I go ahead and park (in a safe place where I can easily be seen) around the corner blocking most of the road and waving people to stop / pull over. It never ceases to amaze me the number of people who insist on squeezing past me only to be confronted by 12 tonnes of tractor covering 3 quarters of the road, the look on thier faces is pricless !
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