Can I be this unlucky....

[deano 4.0 chimp]

This is the continuing saga of a poorly chimp that refuses to play nicely...

Green V8S knows what I am taking about.....

Anyhow after putting everything back together a core plug sprung a leak and an 'O' ring on a fuel injector split, pi55ing Tescos finest everywhere.

So I have replaced the 'O' ring and spent 1 whole day changing the core plug...what a of a job.

Try to spring her into life....click, try again...click. I have swapped batteries and nothing. I removed the starter motor and smacked it around abit, plus sprayed a nice amount of WD40 in there....Go to start it up and....Click

So basically is it a new starter motor as well????

I am starting to get seriously disheartened as I think I have bought a complete dog.......Even though it has only done 50k and has full service history plus bills spent on it....

I am now tinkering with the idea of a complete engine rebuild this winter...any ideas of quality places and more importantly damage to the wallet...

Dean

[That Daddy]

its horrible having moments like this but just hang in there,be all good in the end.Remember.........He who dares wins.good luck.

[Cider Andy]

It does sound like the starter motor from your description. Presumably you've checked the connections to it?

Stripping it is not such a big job now you have it out and there's some help on that job here.

[else]

deano 4.0 chimp said:

This is the continuing saga of a poorly chimp that refuses to play nicely... Green V8S knows what I am taking about..... Anyhow after putting everything back together a core plug sprung a leak and an 'O' ring on a fuel injector split, pi55ing Tescos finest everywhere. So I have replaced the 'O' ring and spent 1 whole day changing the core plug...what a of a job. Try to spring her into life....click, try again...click. I have swapped batteries and nothing. I removed the starter motor and smacked it around abit, plus sprayed a nice amount of WD40 in there....Go to start it up and....Click So basically is it a new starter motor as well???? I am starting to get seriously disheartened as I think I have bought a complete dog.......Even though it has only done 50k and has full service history plus bills spent on it.... I am now tinkering with the idea of a complete engine rebuild this winter...any ideas of quality places and more importantly damage to the wallet... Dean

Whereabouts are you in essex, I am in north essex near Halstead. I have a spare starter in my garage that you can try. Call me on 07770 885945 if you're interested. Andy

[colinrob]

Have you tried bump starting it so that you are sure it is the starter?

[GreenV8S]

What voltage are you getting at the battery, and at the starter motor main power terminal, and on the solenoid, when you try to start the car? Also check for float between the body of the starter motor, and the battery earth terminal.

>> Edited by GreenV8S on Monday 8th May 20:59

[TRICKY1]

if you take the starter off you can connect it directly to a spare battery to check if it works eart lead from battery to starter body then poss wire to soliniod. hold starter down and watch the sparks.

[deano 4.0 chimp]

Guys,

Thanks for the replies guys....Work has been crazy at the moment and I have had to travel in Europe.....I will be in Ireland next week also......I will try a new battery as I believe that although fully charged it is not pushing enough juice.....

Andy I will call you when I get back......thanks for the offer.....

Regards,

Dean.

[else]

deano 4.0 chimp said:

Guys, Andy I will call you when I get back......thanks for the offer..... Regards, Dean.

Sorry Dean I had to use it on mine last week but i can tell you who i bought it from, he regularly auctions them on ebay.

Andy

[deano 4.0 chimp]

OK Troops,

I ordered my self a new starter motor from ebay and today picked up a new battery......

Tested old starter motor with new battery (all in situ)....click.....

Stuck on new starter motor...nothing.....

Tested old starter motor with new battery off car....I can see the cog spring into life....(also see what ya mean about sparks )

Test new stater motor with new battrery off car.....nothing.....

Put old starter motor onto the car.....Click...

I am at a loss, I will obviously ask for a replacement starter motor from the ebay fella....

When testing the starter motor should the cog rotate as well, or just spring into life?

I had to replace all the wiring that had got welded/shorted together which ran to the starter motor and the coil, it was all exactly like for like. Could this have something to do with it, I did not replace the whole lot but just the nasty section although I did check the wiring as I was stripping it back to make sure it was good.

I have not checked the wiring at the starter motor end as I have no multimeter, but I may "borrow" the one from work one evening next week.

Any help again appreciated....

Dean

[Cider Andy]

Dean, here's how it should work. The starter motor assembly is in two distinct electrical parts: the solenoid and the starter motor itself. The heavy cable is connected directly to the battery with no fuses or other protection. This cable provides the power to operate the starter motor.

The thinner wire operates the solenoid. It is connected to position 3 on the ignition switch. Both solenoid and starter motor are grounded through the casing of the assembly (then via the engine/gearbox). The gear you can see is connected to the solenoid. When you turn the key it energises the solenoid. This has two effects: it throws the gear you can see into mesh with the ring gear on the flywheel on the back of the engine (this is why it's called a pre-engaged starter motor). Once at the end of its travel it also closes a big switch that connects the starter motor to the battery.

So, if you connect the casing to the negative post of your battery and the heavy terminal on the solenoid to the positive terminal, then connect a wire between the smaller terminal on the solenoid and the battery positive post, the gear should move and the starter motor should spin.

[deano 4.0 chimp]

Andy,

I did exactley as you said and the cog 'engages' but there is no 'spinning' of the cog...does this mean it is knackered as I have given it some friendly today and some WD40 a couple of weeks back...Should I take it apart???? I cannot do anyhting worse I believe......

I have already contacted said ebay person and am awaiting his reply for a replacement for the new one.....

Regards,

Dean

Edited by deano 4.0 chimp on Sunday 4th June 16:47

[apache]

The solenoid that andy referred has contacts that carry the current for the motor, it's a heavy current and the contacts get coroded and dirty after a while, if you can get at em give em a clean but I suspect it's a sealed unit and you'll have to fork out for a new one

[deano 4.0 chimp]

A little success.......I think!!!

I took the main body apart and gave it a ruddy good clean out as it was pretty mucky, gave the contacts a clean at the bottom of the motor. I could not get at the solenoid though. anyhow I put it all back together and tried again, I still only got the pin to engage, but when I moved the negative wire from the earth strap of the SM body and touched one of the nuts on the bottom of the SM body not only did the pin engage but it moved round as well albeit slowly.

Therefore is the earthing a bit knackered (the strap from the solenoid to the SM body seems well attached and clean enough).

Could I use a seperate wire running from the solenoid running to the SM body nut at the bottom?

How quickly should the starter motor turn, Should it whiz round or turn slowly.....

I basically just want to get the car turning over and running, as long as it runs and does not leak anything anywhere I am happy to wait for the new starter motor.

Regards,

Dean.

Edited by deano 4.0 chimp on Sunday 4th June 18:18

[apache]

it's shagged, when you apply the volts it should leap off the floor and run away

[deano 4.0 chimp]

Guys,

Replacement SM came and I still have the same problem, the pin engages but the cog will not spin. I have tried it on the old battery that is fully charged (no V or Amp info) plus my new battery that is pushing 12.59V and 596Amps.....

I am really at a loss...Is it time to accept defeat and have it taken to a garage?

Dean

[taylormj4]

It sounds like a poor connection somewhere to me. The starter motor takes an enormous amount of current and needs perfect connections between itself and the battery to get all of the current there without causing a voltage drop somewhere in the circuit. If the volts drop off somewhere, there won't be enough across the starter motor to get it to turn. The solenoid doesn't need as much current, so even with a poor connection (or half-charged battery) you will hear it operate "click". I would check the whole circuit from battery to starter. Check all cables, connections. Warm spots after operating the starter are good indicators of poor joints or damaged cabling. A word of warning, don't try to operate the starter for periods of time in excess of 15 seconds and leave gaps between trial operations to let the starter windings cool off.

Also, isn't there a high-current fuseable link in the circuit, beneath the engine somewhere. I seem to recall others saying that these connections had corroded or the link had thinned. Worth a check.

Edited by taylormj4 on Friday 9th June 13:31

[ligures]

Hi, I'm not sure spraying WD 40 inside a started motor is a good idea. It is a great insulator and I am sure that if you get the slighest trace of it on the commutator you can forget about it working.

[slikk]

taylormj4 said:

It sounds like a poor connection somewhere to me. The starter motor takes an enormous amount of current and needs perfect connections between itself and the battery to get all of the current there without causing a voltage drop somewhere in the circuit. If the volts drop off somewhere, there won't be enough across the starter motor to get it to turn. The solenoid doesn't need as much current, so even with a poor connection (or half-charged battery) you will hear it operate "click". I would check the whole circuit from battery to starter. Check all cables, connections. Warm spots after operating the starter are good indicators of poor joints or damaged cabling. A word of warning, don't try to operate the starter for periods of time in excess of 15 seconds and leave gaps between trial operations to let the starter windings cool off.

Also, isn't there a high-current fuseable link in the circuit, beneath the engine somewhere. I seem to recall others saying that these connections had corroded or the link had thinned. Worth a check.

Edited by taylormj4 on Friday 9th June 13:31

It is located on the chassis just behind the drivers side front wheel (on mine, anyway)

HTH

Kim

[jonathant]

taylormj4 said:

Also, isn't there a high-current fuseable link in the circuit, beneath the engine somewhere. I seem to recall others saying that these connections had corroded or the link had thinned. Worth a check.

I thought that sat between the alternator and the battery. Certainly, when my fuseable link broke, my battery eventually went dead with the engine running.