Should we have the right...
Discussion
I'm not sure if this topic has been covered on PH before, I have done a quick search but not come up with anything. It's a bit of a sobering subject I'm afraid, but one that I feel quite strongly about. This story is from the BBC website.
I feel that it is everybody's right to end their lives, if that is what they want. If I had a terminal illness, I know it is what I would want, but the powers that be in this country feel they have the right to over rule this decision. This guy wants it so bad he is travelling to Switzerland to do it.
I guess what I am asking is, should we have the right to end it all within the legal system.
Animals are put down humanely when seriously ill, shouldn't we be able to?
Sorry if this is too morbid for PH.
I feel that it is everybody's right to end their lives, if that is what they want. If I had a terminal illness, I know it is what I would want, but the powers that be in this country feel they have the right to over rule this decision. This guy wants it so bad he is travelling to Switzerland to do it.
I guess what I am asking is, should we have the right to end it all within the legal system.
Animals are put down humanely when seriously ill, shouldn't we be able to?
Sorry if this is too morbid for PH.
Briton prepares for Swiss suicide
Reginald Crew, 74, from Hunt's Cross, Liverpool, is thought to be one of the first UK citizens to take advantage of more relaxed laws on assisted suicide in Switzerland.
Assisted suicide remains illegal in the UK, despite a number of legal challenges.
If all goes to plan, Mr Crew will end his life on Monday with a fatal dose of barbiturates, prepared by a doctor.
Mr Crew has suffered from the debilitating disease for more than four years.
Motor neurone disease has the effect of a creeping paralysis - for which there is no cure.
Mr Crew will kill himself with the help of the "assisted suicide group" Dignitas in Switzerland.
Although there is nothing concrete in the Swiss penal code which says that assisted suicide is legal, the practice of helping a terminally-ill patient to end his or her life is widely considered as a "humane act".
Unless the person helping is proven to be acting out of self-seeking motives, prosecution is extremely unlikely.
Doctors in Zurich are to assess Mr Crew on Monday to check he is mentally capable of making a decision.
Earlier this month, Mr Crew told the BBC: "I have had motor neurone disease for four years now.
"I don't want to go on living like this. I have had enough."
Agree you should be able to end it all if you want to, and with the help of a loved one if need be.
Racegranny is currently vegatating in a nursing home following a very bad stroke which has left her unable to walk, talk, eat, and her mind is a mess, when she was 1st admited to hospital she refused treatment, as she knew how life would be like, but the nurseing staff who on the whole were great pressured her into accepting treatment.
Now she could well out live us all, and is being fleaced of all her savings and house to pay for her 'treatment' but couldn't tell you what day it was, in my opinion thats existing, not living, and I would prefer to remember her as she was pre-stroke not how she is now.
Racegranny is currently vegatating in a nursing home following a very bad stroke which has left her unable to walk, talk, eat, and her mind is a mess, when she was 1st admited to hospital she refused treatment, as she knew how life would be like, but the nurseing staff who on the whole were great pressured her into accepting treatment.
Now she could well out live us all, and is being fleaced of all her savings and house to pay for her 'treatment' but couldn't tell you what day it was, in my opinion thats existing, not living, and I would prefer to remember her as she was pre-stroke not how she is now.
Mrs Fish
Before the thread degenerates into a forum about how people want to pop off their mortal coils, my personnal view is assisted death or even euthenasia must be offered as a real alternative to agonizing death!! I for one don't fear death but fear instead a long drawn out painfull terminal illness, I would much rather be allowed to kick the bucket in a dignified manner, rather than having to relie on the slip up in calculations of a morphine dosage from a junior doctor. Personnal choice would be a Viagara overdose.
Before the thread degenerates into a forum about how people want to pop off their mortal coils, my personnal view is assisted death or even euthenasia must be offered as a real alternative to agonizing death!! I for one don't fear death but fear instead a long drawn out painfull terminal illness, I would much rather be allowed to kick the bucket in a dignified manner, rather than having to relie on the slip up in calculations of a morphine dosage from a junior doctor. Personnal choice would be a Viagara overdose.
Yes, as a libertarian, I believe that I should have the right to end my life as I see fit just as I have the right to live it as I see fit. .
Diane Pretty (if ever there was an unfortunately unaposite surname....) showed how unjust and uncivilised so-called liberal justice in this country can be.. all the things that poor cow went thru.. you could see the situation she was in...
Still, people in future will know that Switzerland is the place to go if the needs must..
After all Diane Pretty had to go to the ECHR in Holland.. might as well just got on a flight to Zurich instead.
pitifully sad that life should come to that, but there's no defense for keeping people alive against their will.
Diane Pretty (if ever there was an unfortunately unaposite surname....) showed how unjust and uncivilised so-called liberal justice in this country can be.. all the things that poor cow went thru.. you could see the situation she was in...
Still, people in future will know that Switzerland is the place to go if the needs must..
After all Diane Pretty had to go to the ECHR in Holland.. might as well just got on a flight to Zurich instead.
pitifully sad that life should come to that, but there's no defense for keeping people alive against their will.
Feel for you raceboy; saw the same myself with my grandmother and her sister when I was a kid.
Strokes are awkward buggers though. Depending on the severity, its possible to recover varying amounts of functions over time. Friend of mine had a bad stroke in his late 40s. They reckoned he would never wake up, but he made it, and now apart from a bad limp and sounding like he is always pissed, he is fine.
Actually, he is always pissed; virtually impossible to tell whether he is or not..
If I were in this chaps position, I'd probably be making the trip to Switzerland. They would have to wheel me out to the snow, let me watch the sun on the mountains then dope my coffee..
OTOH, Italy. Swiss coffee I'm afraid I could never stand..
Strokes are awkward buggers though. Depending on the severity, its possible to recover varying amounts of functions over time. Friend of mine had a bad stroke in his late 40s. They reckoned he would never wake up, but he made it, and now apart from a bad limp and sounding like he is always pissed, he is fine.
Actually, he is always pissed; virtually impossible to tell whether he is or not..
If I were in this chaps position, I'd probably be making the trip to Switzerland. They would have to wheel me out to the snow, let me watch the sun on the mountains then dope my coffee..
OTOH, Italy. Swiss coffee I'm afraid I could never stand..
My view too is that we should all have the choice; however having said that I am at the moment fit and healthy, whether that view would change when the time comes I cannot say. My pal who was a solicitor was diagnosed with cancer of the throat and when offered chemotherapy etc to fight it asked how long with the treatment, they gave him three months, his reply which I personally respect him immensely for was to refuse it and take his chance. He survived 18 months, and of that was relatively ok for all but the last six weeks.
Yeah, I saw some old trout on the News today wittering on about the "Right to life"
Sure people have a right to life - no-one is taking that away from them, what we need is a right to death as well.
Her only reasonable point was that people tend to be rather depressed immediately after the accident/onset of illness, but that can easily be addressed with a 3 month cooling off period (or whatever seems reasonable to the majority)
Apart from helping the appalling quality of life of these poor people, pragmatically it also saves the NHS money, so you'd thing the government would be all for it....
Sure people have a right to life - no-one is taking that away from them, what we need is a right to death as well.
Her only reasonable point was that people tend to be rather depressed immediately after the accident/onset of illness, but that can easily be addressed with a 3 month cooling off period (or whatever seems reasonable to the majority)
Apart from helping the appalling quality of life of these poor people, pragmatically it also saves the NHS money, so you'd thing the government would be all for it....
Mrs Fish said:
Trust a man to lower the tone, on a serious subject.
Sorry Mrs Fish. I'm normally such a good boy!
On the subject in question - I think everyone should definitely have the choice to die when they so desire, but it could be irresponsible for the state to start popping people off who may only be clinically depressed/suicidial. For something like complete paralysis, or Motor Neuroune disease I can see the benefits, but how would it be legislated for. When is it acceptable to pop someone's clogs, and when is it not?
There are many issues on this subject that make it very difficult.
My personal opinion is that it should be allowed with proper medical supervision and after proper checks into the state of mind of the person. At the end of the day we are not talking of killing people here. We are talking about making it so that THEY (themselves, no one else, the ill person) makes the choice about when they can nolonger stand the pain and suffering.
It must be made so that the medical profession can be as certain as possible that the person is "in their right mind" and aren't just doing it through a fit of depression etc. But it at the end of the day, if they were well enough to physically do it themselves they wouldn't need help. These people normally (like Mrs Pretty and this chap) leave it until there is nothing left and all they are doing is waiting to die painfully.
I'm not saying I would be able to do it if I was that ill but it would be good to have the choice.
My personal opinion is that it should be allowed with proper medical supervision and after proper checks into the state of mind of the person. At the end of the day we are not talking of killing people here. We are talking about making it so that THEY (themselves, no one else, the ill person) makes the choice about when they can nolonger stand the pain and suffering.
It must be made so that the medical profession can be as certain as possible that the person is "in their right mind" and aren't just doing it through a fit of depression etc. But it at the end of the day, if they were well enough to physically do it themselves they wouldn't need help. These people normally (like Mrs Pretty and this chap) leave it until there is nothing left and all they are doing is waiting to die painfully.
I'm not saying I would be able to do it if I was that ill but it would be good to have the choice.
Lets look at it from my slightly skewed angle of viewing.
If someones life quality is that bad, then they should have the right to die, if thats their wish.
If i decide one day that my lifes so bad due to disease etc, then just you try and stop me doing it.
Its not murder if you dread waking up each day.
Help these people to at least go in peace, its not right to make them suffer.
If someones life quality is that bad, then they should have the right to die, if thats their wish.
If i decide one day that my lifes so bad due to disease etc, then just you try and stop me doing it.
Its not murder if you dread waking up each day.
Help these people to at least go in peace, its not right to make them suffer.
Or what about Alzheimers sufferers? Thay have no quality of life whatsoever, but they couldn't make a rational decision to end their lives under the eyes of the law. You could put it in your will, but aside from that it would be someone else's call. When the time comes it should be up to the individual to decide when they want to quit the game, not the state to say you've got to keep going no matter what.
this is the core issue... euthanasia is 'assisted' suicide - ie. nearest & dearest helping out when the individual is incapacitated.
alan_driver said: Am i correct in thinking its not illigal to commit suicide anymore? If so then shouldn't euthanasia (sp?) be legal too.
The assistant is legally bound, presently, to face a murder charge...
I wonder if one could try the U.S. lethal injection principle of several potentially innocent contributors, or expand it from 3 to 100 people.. what would our dear CPS do then?
>> Edited by CarZee (moderator) on Monday 20th January 23:03
A TERMINALLY-ILL British man was helped to die yesterday in a Swiss suicide clinic.
Motor neurone disease sufferer Reginald Crew, 74, died after swallowing a lethal dose of barbiturates through a straw from a glass of water.
In less than five minutes the ex-docker was unconscious and he was dead within an hour.
Mr Crew, from Liverpool, had flown to Zurich with his wife Winifred, 71, and grown-up daughter Jan Healey. His death was organised by Dignitas, an assisted suicide group.
In the UK it is illegal to help someone kill themselves, but the Swiss authorities consider the practice a humane act.
Doctors assessed Mr Crew’s mental state to ensure he was capable of deciding to die. Winifred, his wife of 51 years, signed the consent forms because he is paralysed from the neck down.
Mr Crew was said to be “calm and happy” in his last hours. He previously said: “I can’t feed or scratch myself. I just want to leave this earth.”
He is the first Briton to publicly go to Switzerland and die with the help of Dignitas, a non-profit-making group which costs £50 to join. He had suffered motor neurone disease, an incurable condition with the effect of a creeping paralysis, for four years.
Mrs Crew risks prosecution in the UK for assisting a suicide. But she said: “The law should be changed. I don’t think a sick person should go abroad to do this.”
I sincerely hope she doesn't get prosecuted.
Motor neurone disease sufferer Reginald Crew, 74, died after swallowing a lethal dose of barbiturates through a straw from a glass of water.
In less than five minutes the ex-docker was unconscious and he was dead within an hour.
Mr Crew, from Liverpool, had flown to Zurich with his wife Winifred, 71, and grown-up daughter Jan Healey. His death was organised by Dignitas, an assisted suicide group.
In the UK it is illegal to help someone kill themselves, but the Swiss authorities consider the practice a humane act.
Doctors assessed Mr Crew’s mental state to ensure he was capable of deciding to die. Winifred, his wife of 51 years, signed the consent forms because he is paralysed from the neck down.
Mr Crew was said to be “calm and happy” in his last hours. He previously said: “I can’t feed or scratch myself. I just want to leave this earth.”
He is the first Briton to publicly go to Switzerland and die with the help of Dignitas, a non-profit-making group which costs £50 to join. He had suffered motor neurone disease, an incurable condition with the effect of a creeping paralysis, for four years.
Mrs Crew risks prosecution in the UK for assisting a suicide. But she said: “The law should be changed. I don’t think a sick person should go abroad to do this.”
I sincerely hope she doesn't get prosecuted. Gassing Station | General Gassing [Archive] | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff