Aaaaargh!!! Crunched Rear Clam!!!

[Coupe Girl]

Popped home from work for yesterday and was in the kitchen when I heard a loud crunch. Looked out of the window to see my builder reversing his truck in the drive and thought he must have backed into the wall. Then realised he was looking at the back of my Lotus and shouting "Oh B@!!@CKS!!!"

He'd caught the back of my car with the front of his Pickup as he was swinging round backwards in the drive . The damage is to the near-side rear wheel arch... there's a vertical crack about 4 inches long just behind the wheel arch and the rear of the arch is all scraped and cracked... the crack's gone right through the fibreglass.

I the car straight to my Lotus Dealer who said that they could repair it but couldn't guarantee the repair, when I asked what they meant they said that it may or may not develop a crack again in the future or that the repair may become visible after time . They said that the only way to be certain to avoid this and the option that they would recommend would be to replace the whole rear clam which would probably cost about £3,500.

The car is a Calypso Red S2 Elise Sports Tourer (short roof version) and is only three years old, I bought it in November and it was absolutely immaculate, as it has remained ever since... until yesterday

My problem is that the builder, (who's also a good friend) can't understand why it'll be so expensive to repair and his wife went up the wall that I'd gone to my Lotus dealer for a quote and indicated that I should take it to a local spray-shop who would repair it a lot cheaper. He doesn't want to lose his no claims bonus and is worried that his insurance premium'll go up and I think he was hoping that he could pay for it himself and not put it through his insurance.

I tried explaining that if I have it repaired cheaply and the repair reappears after time, my otherwise pristine car is devalued when I come to sell it and I then have no comeback . If I was a buyer, I would be happier buying a Lotus that had been repaired by a Lotus dealer who should (one would hope) have more expertise in repairing Lotus's.

As this wasn't my fault, (I was in the kitchen having a cup of tea!) surely I have the right to have the car repaired back to exactly how it was, by the dealer I choose who have also done all the servicing on my car for the last 2 years?

Am I being unreasonable? Has anyone else had anything like this happen? It's making me feel terrible, but I want my lovely car exactly how it was before the accident.

Any advice gratefully received

Sorry I've gone on a bit but I'm just really



>> Edited by Coupe Girl on Saturday 13th May 16:53

[GTRene]

Sorry to hear that Amanda, and I can understand your problem...mostly not good for friendships, your in "love" with your car, and he's maybe just a from A to B person carman?
I think you'r in your rights when your reasonable, and its very reasonable to get your car back in at least the state it was! let alone the damage in your soul from scary thinking about your car and repairs and a bit fight with your "friends" when it comes to money or noclaims people can react not so friendly...I also can understand your friends a bit, but YOU are in your right...so try to get that, but not at all cost... when they are "good" real friends...don't push it to far or maybe you loose them or have fights? both not fine me thinks, but I don't know how "close"you are, thats up to your personal feeling.
Get it fixed...a new clam? thats a bit overdo, but a real good repair? and some bonus money? for the hurt and maybe some worthloss or new repair in futere? see how they react on that and how far they will/can go that way both are "happy"

[jfrf]

why not compromise and go to a independent lotus specialist.
official dealer labour rates are just plain riduculous.

i had a non fault incident with preety bad fibreglass damage.
rather than clam replacement the lotus specialist chose to repair my car.

i doubt the repairer would have chosen this if there was even the chance of the repair not being perfect.

[speedyellow]

Talk to Karl at Specialised Paintwork in Reading, they are a Lotus approved bodyshop and do lots of work for the factory but their rates are much lower than the dealers.

[beachbum]

Speedyellows suggestion is a good one, if Reading is not to near you, maybe Fibreglass services in Arundel is nearer.

[Coupe Girl]

Thanks chaps

GTRene - He's actually my ex boyfriend of about 12 years and although he's not quite such a petrolhead as me, he knows a thing or two about cars. We're still good mates, hence he's working on our house at the mo. He said he's more cross with the person that designed the car to be so expensive to fix. He's normally quite a reasonable chap, I'm more worried that his wife's upset with me. I took the car to the Lotus dealer as they are who I've always dealt with and I know them. Recently bought a Lotus 340R from them as well. They've always been very helpful and gave lots of advice on buying my Elise (even though I bought it elsewhere) and I trust them to work on my car.

GTRene Hope you don't mind me saying, but I see from your profile that you have a Z3M Coupe!! So do I!! ABSOLUTELY SUPERB CAR... always very happy to meet a fellow Z3M Coupe owner

jfrf - How long ago was your car damaged? Do you still have the car and does anything show from the repair?

speedyellow and beachbum - Thanks for that... Specialised Paintwork and Fibreglass Services... I'll definitely give that some thought


>> Edited by Coupe Girl on Saturday 13th May 19:08

[S Works]

Coupe Girl. Where in the south are you? Specialised are well recommended, and Miles @ Fibreglass Services will do you the best repair you can imagine - he has years and years of experience with Lotus and what he doesn't know isn't worth knowing.

At £37.50 per hour he's about as cheap as it's possible to get also.

[Coupe Girl]

S Works said:

Coupe Girl. Where in the south are you? Specialised are well recommended, and Miles @ Fibreglass Services will do you the best repair you can imagine - he has years and years of experience with Lotus and what he doesn't know isn't worth knowing. At £37.50 per hour he's about as cheap as it's possible to get also.

Hello S Works

I'm near Chichester... tell me more... it sounds like it would be worth me giving Fibreglass Services a call. Can you tell me where they are and do you know their number? I don't mind travelling to get a good job done if they're not that close by... (the 340R is at Maidstone Sportscars at the mo, having an engine transplant, which is about an hour and a half away from me).

Thanks very much :smile:

Mandy

[S Works]

Hi, www.fibreglassservices.co.uk/index.html has all the info, but you're in for a surprise when you visit - it's old skool bigtime!

They (Miles & Ian) are in Walberton, near Arundel. Give them a ring but you may have to wait a while for an answer as the phone's in their "office" and very often they take a while to get out of the car they're working on and in from the workshop.

[Davi]

Coupe Girl - The man in Lotus might have a point - depends on where the crack is in relation to the main stress points in the 'glass, I've done some remedial work on several cars (not lotus though ) that had previously been patched through rather than replaced and it can crack out badly over time.

Definitely take it to a professional 'glass worker though, they will be best placed to advise you if it could be got away with or not.

As to being unreasonable... if a second opinion agree's with lotus, then quite simply no! I'd explain to the person checking it the situation and ask if they would mind putting in writing why they feel the replacement is necessary, then you can show your mate/his missus - at least then if they get annoyed at anyone it'll be the repairer and not you!

[GTRene]

Coupe Girl said:

Thanks chaps GTRene - He's actually my ex boyfriend of about 12 years and although he's not quite such a petrolhead as me, he knows a thing or two about cars. We're still good mates, hence he's working on our house at the mo. He said he's more cross with the person that designed the car to be so expensive to fix. He's normally quite a reasonable chap, I'm more worried that his wife's upset with me. I took the car to the Lotus dealer as they are who I've always dealt with and I know them. Recently bought a Lotus 340R from them as well. They've always been very helpful and gave lots of advice on buying my Elise (even though I bought it elsewhere) and I trust them to work on my car. GTRene Hope you don't mind me saying, but I see from your profile that you have a Z3M Coupe!! So do I!! ABSOLUTELY SUPERB CAR... always very happy to meet a fellow Z3M Coupe owner

yw Amanda, hope you both work it out together, since he's your ex you must be some nice woman? Also in this matter I think I understand his "new" girlfriends reaction...its never easy to let your boyfriend working in his ex girlfriends house?! So a delicate matter you have their...also I think in this situation you have to work it out as someone else was mentioning in a compromising way, think you can do that seem to me you'll are something special in a special way...
Hope your house is ready though(just in case )

Also when you say happy to meet a fellow Z3 M coupe owner, I looked at your profile and now I understand your profile name Coupe Girl I had 2 of those models that you had too, two blackies...I realy like those cars specialy the one I drive now(not the special color) only a few made and a superb engine(at least this 2004 engine is )
maybe we think the same about the M coupe's, they are almost superb alrounders with a nice retro design wich I like a lot and a goodlooking ass

You drive(driven) some nice cars, specialy for a Girl, what can I say...good choice in cars

Hope you soon heel from the sad thoughts of your damaged car...I know I would feel very sad too

Would like to meet such power girl like yourself who's loving cars too,(make that a coke for me but...A bit to far away and the channel to deep and wide to jump over maby some day at the Ring Germany? would be nice.
cheers
GTRene

[Coupe Girl]

Thanks for that SWorks... very helpful

[drac]

Hey coupe girl

To be honest this is what insurance is for! If its gone full thickness through your clam i'd be getting a new one. (Panel beaters is OK for a 10 year old nissan but not a Lotus.) Good choice on the honda 340R. I'd love one. Just in NZ its a bit hard to sort out. Its the other woman who needs to back down not you. She should be grateful it wasn't the 340R as that would be expensive. Good luck.

[Coupe Girl]

Davi and Drac

Thanks for the sound advice, I think you're both right. I must say I am a little nervous about having the damage repaired as it has actually cracked right through to the back. I would be happier to have the clam replaced and I think if it were the other way round, then he would want the same. Where the damage is, so I'm told, it is double skinned and there is also a brace or a bracket bolting it to the chassis beneath.

GTRene said:

yw Amanda, hope you both work it out together, since he's your ex you must be some nice woman? Also in this matter I think I understand his "new" girlfriends reaction...its never easy to let your boyfriend working in his ex girlfriends house?! So a delicate matter you have their...also I think in this situation you have to work it out as someone else was mentioning in a compromising way, think you can do that seem to me you'll are something special in a special way... Hope your house is ready though(just in case ) Also when you say happy to meet a fellow Z3 M coupe owner, I looked at your profile and now I understand your profile name Coupe Girl I had 2 of those models that you had too, two blackies...I realy like those cars specialy the one I drive now(not the special color) only a few made and a superb engine(at least this 2004 engine is ) maybe we think the same about the M coupe's, they are almost superb alrounders with a nice retro design wich I like a lot and a goodlooking ass You drive(driven) some nice cars, specialy for a Girl, what can I say...good choice in cars Hope you soon heel from the sad thoughts of your damaged car...I know I would feel very sad too Would like to meet such power girl like yourself who's loving cars too,(make that a coke for me but...A bit to far away and the channel to deep and wide to jump over maby some day at the Ring Germany? would be nice. cheers GTRene

Hello GTRene

Yes we're good mates, went to school together and have a lot of friends in common. He's been married for 4 years now though and seems very happy... as am I (past was good but definitely don't want to go back there!!), so I don't think his wife should mind, but I know what you mean. He's a damn good builder though, so that's why I've got him and my dad round working on the house.

Yes we agree on the Coupe then... I too love the retro design and the fat ass!! Not to mention the feeling you get when you put your foot down and feel that power Mine's done 100k miles now, although to drive it you'd only think it had done 30k. The gears are still tight and it's a mighty quick beast when you want it! Have had no problems with it, always run it on the best oils and Optimax and have it serviced regularly and wouldn't part with it for the world

At the Ring it is then !

Vaarwel


>> Edited by Coupe Girl on Saturday 13th May 22:45

[edisto]

Hi Coupe Girl, have I missed something? The builder, if he is not breaking the law, will have third party insurance to cover third party (that's you) property damage (that's your Elise). Your discussions should be with his insurance company not with him. Any claim on his policy will result in a reduction in his No Claims Discount whether it costs £500 or £500,000, the reduction will be the same. If he is a friend of yours, he should be keen to make sure you get the best possible repair available.

As far as talking to his insurance company? You are entitled to have your car restored to the pristine condition that it was in before the incident, and I would suggest that a Lotus dealer is the best place to have your car repaired to ensure this. As it is, it is highly likely that however competent the repair is, you will still suffer a diminution in value when you come to sell it / trade it in (for a new Exige S of course).

Can I suggest that you do not compromise on the quality of the repair, you will pay for it in the long run and the only beneficiary will be your builder’s insurance company.

Not that I’m a Chartered Insurer, which, of course, I am!

[GTRene]

Coupe Girl said:

Hello GTRene Yes we're good mates, went to school together and have a lot of friends in common. He's been married for 4 years now though and seems very happy... as am I (past was good but definitely don't want to go back there!!), so I don't think his wife should mind, but I know what you mean. He's a damn good builder though, so that's why I've got him and my dad round working on the house. Yes we agree on the Coupe then... I too love the retro design and the fat ass!! Not to mention the feeling you get when you put your foot down and feel that power Mine's done 100k miles now, although to drive it you'd only think it had done 30k. The gears are still tight and it's a mighty quick beast when you want it! Have had no problems with it, always run it on the best oils and Optimax and have it serviced regularly and wouldn't part with it for the world At the Ring it is then ! Vaarwel

(a bit of topic sorry)I now know what Coupe you have, and it looks nice, same color as the 1999 car I had before this one...cool, seeing your profile again! nice Hartge style wheels and good choice of exhaust I have the same look exhaust from scorpion, thats a bit lighter and a bit deeper bassy sound, the standard was a bit to? refined, this is better and also save's some weight
Geuss when everything goes as planned I'm at the Ring next week Sunday 21 may or something else gets between that data, then I would be there the week next/after
see the Nurnburgring thread...when you think you go too this year? let me know, maybe I go then also, its a great place to be(just a long ride...but for me shorter ofcorse about 300km drive to get there) And I like M&M's there are sometimes some nice more race M coupe's with carbon parts and more powerrrr...on the Ring.
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?p=3&f=15&t=236309&h=0
You can speak a bit Dutch??? fun...good luck with the Lotus repairs and agreements...

drive save
GTRene

>> Edited by GTRene on Sunday 14th May 14:48

[anniesdad]

Seemingly we have a third party here, who whilst obviously apologetic and angry with Lotus for charging so much for a clam, wants to keep his costs down and pay for the repairs himself without the need to involve his insurers. Has he given you any indication of his supposed "budget" to repair your car? I'm sure he has a figure in mind. Personally I think he needs to wake up and smell the coffee!

Quite clearly it is not reasonable to expect anybody in these circumstances to have a sub-standard repair carried out to such an expensive and prestigious vehicle for their own personal gain. I would, very subtly, suggest that the car will be having a rear clam fitted and that it would be advisable for him to contact his insurers as quite clearly the cost of this will need to met by either him or his insurers. Without knowing what his insurance premium is, I'm guessing that the penalties he will face by having a claim made upon him will be far less than the financial penalty of repairing your car to the standard that you expect?

Regards

Steve

[gooby]

anniesdad said:

Seemingly we have a third party here, who whilst obviously apologetic and angry with Lotus for charging so much for a clam, wants to keep his costs down and pay for the repairs himself without the need to involve his insurers. Has he given you any indication of his supposed "budget" to repair your car? I'm sure he has a figure in mind. Personally I think he needs to wake up and smell the coffee! Quite clearly it is not reasonable to expect anybody in these circumstances to have a sub-standard repair carried out to such an expensive and prestigious vehicle for their own personal gain. I would, very subtly, suggest that the car will be having a rear clam fitted and that it would be advisable for him to contact his insurers as quite clearly the cost of this will need to met by either him or his insurers. Without knowing what his insurance premium is, I'm guessing that the penalties he will face by having a claim made upon him will be far less than the financial penalty of repairing your car to the standard that you expect? Regards Steve

Agreed - if he is a friend he wouldnt be putting you in an awkward position. I would give him a few days to get an insurance for his NCB then have your car treated in the way you would expect.

[Coupe Girl]

edisto said:

Hi Coupe Girl, have I missed something? The builder, if he is not breaking the law, will have third party insurance to cover third party (that's you) property damage (that's your Elise). Your discussions should be with his insurance company not with him. Any claim on his policy will result in a reduction in his No Claims Discount whether it costs £500 or £500,000, the reduction will be the same. If he is a friend of yours, he should be keen to make sure you get the best possible repair available. As far as talking to his insurance company? You are entitled to have your car restored to the pristine condition that it was in before the incident, and I would suggest that a Lotus dealer is the best place to have your car repaired to ensure this. As it is, it is highly likely that however competent the repair is, you will still suffer a diminution in value when you come to sell it / trade it in (for a new Exige S of course). Can I suggest that you do not compromise on the quality of the repair, you will pay for it in the long run and the only beneficiary will be your builder’s insurance company. Not that I’m a Chartered Insurer, which, of course, I am!

Hi edisto

Thanks very much for your expert advice . You are of course absolutely right. I've been thinking about it over the weekend and I bought the car with FLSH and the car hasn't been touched by anyone else, even when I needed a new wiper blade I took it to Lotus.

When I bought the car I had a full HPI thingy check done on it and it was totally clean. If I sell the car, will this claim show up if the new person has a check done? If so, it would look better if the work was done by Lotus.

My only worry now is that his insurance company might insist on a repair and not a replacement. If they only agree to repair it then I would want a guarantee from them that if the repair becomes visible in a year or two that they will put it right with no expense to me, I wonder where I stand on this?

My builder (who's also a friend) was hoping to pay for it himself to avoid losing his no-claims and an increase in his insurance next year but he can't afford that much so he's upset that I've taken it to Lotus and doesn't understand why I can't take it somewhere cheaper. Now I feel terrible that he might think I'm being awkward.

Thanks again for that

Mandy

[S Works]

Mandy, go to Miles @ Fibreglass Services. If you look in your owners booklet you'll see he's Lotus Approved for Repair and Servicing and you will have an official 'stamp' if you like on the repair.

If it can economically be repaired he will repair it, if it is dead, he'll insist on a new clam. He WILL NOT overinflate a claim if a good, clean repair can be done. If he does repair it, I'd bet a fair few quid that neither you or any prospective buyer will be able to tell the difference between it and a new clam - he is that good.

At £37ish an hour I doubt your mate will be able to find anyone cheaper, and I very much doubt anyone he can find for less will have anywhere near the experience that Miles does.

As for resale, your residual value of the car should not be affected in anyway by an incident of this kind. It's low speed cosmetic damage only, really no big deal, just looks worse because it's fibreglass and not a big dent in a panel!

>> Edited by S Works on Monday 15th May 11:45