Bit of advice - my next car
Discussion
Hi folks,
I'm selling my Supra TT shortly and will be looking for a replacement of similar performance and which has that something 'special'.
The car won't be used to commute *every* day (~56 mile round trip), probably a max of 2-3 days a week and on weekends; but it certainly wouldn't be locked up and only let out on a sunday though!
From the sale of the Supra and a small loan I'll be looking at a budget of £18000-£21000. At the moment I've got on my shortlist:
M3
Porsche 964
Porsche 993
Esprit V8
348
Cerbera 4.2/4.5
T350C
To be quite honest, the thought of the BMW bores me silly. From the outside they're like all the other hundreds of BMW's on the roads. Plenty of toys on the inside though.
The 993 is the best of the 911's imo, but they command a premium compared to the earlier 964 and the later 996 - at these prices I guess it would be a poor example. On the other hand, I could afford just about the best 964 on the market, but really, they're getting old these days and you don't particulary get much for your £18k or so
And theres the Esprit
... what a car! Iconic supercar shape (such a good looking car, even if it's now starting to look out of date) and awesome handling and acceleration. The downside seems to be that the engine is virtually guaranteed to go bang and they seem to be very fragile indeed.
Ferrari 348. Again, right at the top of my price range - I honestly don't think I could afford to run something like this, perhaps too impractical as well.
Then it comes to the TVR models.
Cerbera:
I like the extra room and practicality that the coupe gives - the Supra is remarkably practical given the type of car. The noise and power of the V8 is also hard to argue with! Bonkers quick
T350C:
A really, really good looking car - perhaps even the best looking out of all of those I'm looking at. Stupendous performance and handling, a bit more 'raw' than the Cerbera and focussed more towards the track/weekend blasts?
Right, first things first... I'm not afraid of doing any work myself - my father runs a garage and we've always done everything apart from paintwork on our own cars (e.g everything from servicing all of my cars and doing suspension alignment to rally prepping a mk1 Escort or fitting a 2 litre turbo into little mk1 MR2).
With that said I'm very concerned about the amount of serious problems that owners seem to have with their Speed 6 based models - the reports of top end failure and oil starvation etc are, quite frankly; frightening!
That's not to say that I haven't seen posts about AJP8 problems - but these seem much fewer and far between; I appreciate the Cerbera is going to have 'niggles' that something like the Supra never would, but it seems the engine is much more reliable than the six cyl - would you say this is the case?
The mythical £3k/year maintenance allowance also concerns me - am I right in thinking that most owners get the vast majority of work done at either a dealer or independent? What kind of figure are we talking about for those of us who do virtually every scrap of work ourselves? I guess that the vast majority of parts are from various manufacturers parts bins (I hear of Citroen ignition components and Ford drivetrain bits and bobs)???
I guess what I'm looking for is a bit of advice from anyone who has been in my position, or ideas of what to look for / watch out for on these cars (I notice the 99> Cerbera's seem to command a premium, for example, and that a lot of the early T350's only have a few k's on them?)
Sorry for the long winded post; bit of an essay I'm afraid!
I'm selling my Supra TT shortly and will be looking for a replacement of similar performance and which has that something 'special'.
The car won't be used to commute *every* day (~56 mile round trip), probably a max of 2-3 days a week and on weekends; but it certainly wouldn't be locked up and only let out on a sunday though!
From the sale of the Supra and a small loan I'll be looking at a budget of £18000-£21000. At the moment I've got on my shortlist:
M3
Porsche 964
Porsche 993
Esprit V8
348
Cerbera 4.2/4.5
T350C
To be quite honest, the thought of the BMW bores me silly. From the outside they're like all the other hundreds of BMW's on the roads. Plenty of toys on the inside though.
The 993 is the best of the 911's imo, but they command a premium compared to the earlier 964 and the later 996 - at these prices I guess it would be a poor example. On the other hand, I could afford just about the best 964 on the market, but really, they're getting old these days and you don't particulary get much for your £18k or so
And theres the Esprit
... what a car! Iconic supercar shape (such a good looking car, even if it's now starting to look out of date) and awesome handling and acceleration. The downside seems to be that the engine is virtually guaranteed to go bang and they seem to be very fragile indeed. Ferrari 348. Again, right at the top of my price range - I honestly don't think I could afford to run something like this, perhaps too impractical as well.
Then it comes to the TVR models.
Cerbera:
I like the extra room and practicality that the coupe gives - the Supra is remarkably practical given the type of car. The noise and power of the V8 is also hard to argue with! Bonkers quick
T350C:
A really, really good looking car - perhaps even the best looking out of all of those I'm looking at. Stupendous performance and handling, a bit more 'raw' than the Cerbera and focussed more towards the track/weekend blasts?
Right, first things first... I'm not afraid of doing any work myself - my father runs a garage and we've always done everything apart from paintwork on our own cars (e.g everything from servicing all of my cars and doing suspension alignment to rally prepping a mk1 Escort or fitting a 2 litre turbo into little mk1 MR2).
With that said I'm very concerned about the amount of serious problems that owners seem to have with their Speed 6 based models - the reports of top end failure and oil starvation etc are, quite frankly; frightening!
That's not to say that I haven't seen posts about AJP8 problems - but these seem much fewer and far between; I appreciate the Cerbera is going to have 'niggles' that something like the Supra never would, but it seems the engine is much more reliable than the six cyl - would you say this is the case?
The mythical £3k/year maintenance allowance also concerns me - am I right in thinking that most owners get the vast majority of work done at either a dealer or independent? What kind of figure are we talking about for those of us who do virtually every scrap of work ourselves? I guess that the vast majority of parts are from various manufacturers parts bins (I hear of Citroen ignition components and Ford drivetrain bits and bobs)???
I guess what I'm looking for is a bit of advice from anyone who has been in my position, or ideas of what to look for / watch out for on these cars (I notice the 99> Cerbera's seem to command a premium, for example, and that a lot of the early T350's only have a few k's on them?)
Sorry for the long winded post; bit of an essay I'm afraid!
SXS said:
You come from a forced induction background, I'd say keep to that line... a porsche turbo? save a bit more and go for a sorted one.
otherwise a T350 is a good choice
I did consider a 964 Turbo 2 - boyhood dream come true!, but they command a huge premium over the Carrera. £24k and upwards for a rhd model, and like the rest of the 964's they are all starting to rack up huge mileages now. There's a lovely one in the PH classified at the moment, but it's £24k and 120k+ miles
Thought about a griff 500 or chim 500..
lots of low down torque mean brutal performance.
and I would guess be a much easier bet (and chepaer )for self maintenance.
ie get the steve heath 'griffith and chimarea' bible book and you (if competant) would have a good start..
Plus for £20k you could get one of the BEST griff's/chims for your money.
Peformane wise thes would be ahead of everything excpet the other tvr's( and pretty close to them in real world driving) include in your budget some new dampers/springs (nitrons/ohlins) and full geometry set up by a specialist) and you'd have a car that handles just about as well any modern TVR
B
>> Edited by bjwoods on Monday 15th May 09:27
lots of low down torque mean brutal performance.
and I would guess be a much easier bet (and chepaer )for self maintenance.
ie get the steve heath 'griffith and chimarea' bible book and you (if competant) would have a good start..
Plus for £20k you could get one of the BEST griff's/chims for your money.
Peformane wise thes would be ahead of everything excpet the other tvr's( and pretty close to them in real world driving) include in your budget some new dampers/springs (nitrons/ohlins) and full geometry set up by a specialist) and you'd have a car that handles just about as well any modern TVR
B
>> Edited by bjwoods on Monday 15th May 09:27
gazzab said:
Cerb is as raw if not more than T350.
Do you really really WANT a Cerb or T350 ? Doesnt sound that way?
Running costs for a cerb if you do all the work yourself (not sure you can though) could be as little as £1K pa (parts) or a lot more of series issues. AJPs are generally strong.
I'm just trying to be realistic about all of the choices - none of them are perfect (oil leaks and top end rebuilds at 80k on the air cooled 911's, cylinder liner seals on the Esprit, general niggles on the Cerb, the speed 6 engine problems), and I just want to know what I'm getting into before I make any financial decisions.
bjwoods said:
Thought about a griff 500 or chim 500..
lots of low down torque mean brutal performance.
and I would guess be a much easier bet (and chepaer )for self maintenance.
ie get the steve heath 'griffith and chimarea' bible book and you (if competant) would have a good start..
Plus for £20k you could get one of the BEST griff's/chims for your money.
Peformane wise thes would be ahead of everything excpet the other tvr's( and pretty close to them in real world driving) include in your budget some new dampers/springs (nitrons/ohlins) and full geometry set up by a specialist) and you'd have a car that handles just about as well any modern TVR
B
>> Edited by bjwoods on Monday 15th May 09:27
Nice cars, but the styling doesn't really do it for me - out of the TVR models I could afford it's the looks of the Cerbera and T350C that get me going
I'm also really looking for a coupe or hardtop (which would include the Tuscan, but I've got a love-hate relationship with that front end!) .. plus they have a bit more modern feel to them. Gotta admit, the RV8 does make a nice noise tho
beauty in the eye, etc,etc...
Totally agree about the M3
if you don't like the looks that's fine...
Have you tried a drive though, they are VERY torquey cars and will FEEL quicker than everything you mentioned on the public roads, (unless you really like to rev cars)
Maybe in the right colour might change your mind. I don't know what you've seen.
ie early griffs, chims seem to be in old fashioned ( imho) colourrs racing green ruby red, similar interiors, but one next to a griff in moonraker black, or grigio (OR even Yellow) )with a grey/black/blue interior, and the other car will lkook 20 years older, EVEN thogh it is an identical shape..
Seriously though griff/chim has more performance than any non-tvr in you list, and would probably prove to be the most reliable/cheapest/easiest to maintain than any of them as well (though do get a specialist to find you a good one - ie REally check the chassis)
Added advantage, I can't see a good one depreciating much in the future (especially the griff)
And it's a convertible.
Cerbera ajp v8 is tempting, but relatively i think most owners would agree be more expensive to run and harder to maintain than griff/chim on your budget
B
>> Edited by bjwoods on Monday 15th May 09:54
Totally agree about the M3
if you don't like the looks that's fine...
Have you tried a drive though, they are VERY torquey cars and will FEEL quicker than everything you mentioned on the public roads, (unless you really like to rev cars)
Maybe in the right colour might change your mind. I don't know what you've seen.
ie early griffs, chims seem to be in old fashioned ( imho) colourrs racing green ruby red, similar interiors, but one next to a griff in moonraker black, or grigio (OR even Yellow)
)with a grey/black/blue interior, and the other car will lkook 20 years older, EVEN thogh it is an identical shape.. Seriously though griff/chim has more performance than any non-tvr in you list, and would probably prove to be the most reliable/cheapest/easiest to maintain than any of them as well (though do get a specialist to find you a good one - ie REally check the chassis)
Added advantage, I can't see a good one depreciating much in the future (especially the griff)
And it's a convertible.
Cerbera ajp v8 is tempting, but relatively i think most owners would agree be more expensive to run and harder to maintain than griff/chim on your budget
B
>> Edited by bjwoods on Monday 15th May 09:54
I guess you gotta just test drive them and go from there. When looking for a replacement for my Chimaera I tried out a Noble M12. Seemed like a great machine. Then I tested a Cerbera v8 and HAD to have one - the looks, the raw craziness, that noise at 7000rpm and overrun & all the rest.
Other than that I can't really give much more advice. Test drive them all, buy a Cerb
Other than that I can't really give much more advice. Test drive them all, buy a Cerb
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