Porsche Vs 111R
Discussion
Morning all,
Well Saturday was a long day, first of all I had to drive through Essex to pick up my little Boy, then onto Dartford to drop Luis off at his Nan's (Anyone who's met Luis knows that there's no way I could take him on a test drive) turned up at the Porsche dealer an hour late traffic was horrendous, after being looked at up and down by the sales team was asked "can help you " by the receptionist (very polite) first impressions of Porsche not very good I'm afraid, the sales team looked more interested in the hair styles and flash suit's than actually selling car's, well that's what came across to me anyway, onto the first test drive I was taken towards a Metallic Blue Cayman S and promptly asked to sit in the passenger side, after what seemed ages the sales guy was telling me about Cup holder's and storage (Not interested in the slightest) he drove up the road and round a corner and asked me to then site in the driver's side, at no point was I given the time to take a look at the car even thou I'd told him 3 time's that this was the first time I'd seen a Cayman up close, anyway I jumped in the car and straight away realised what a complete waste of time this was going to be, as I pulled away I got that slight jump as the car took up the slack and it felt just like an Audi TT, as I drove through corner's and then up onto the duel carriage way it didn't seem that Quick, I was told by the sales guy not to give it the Max but at every opportunity I gave it as much as I could, I came away felling very disappointed it's not as quick as an R by any mean's, the only thing I can say is that it's a very good looking car, it's very well made, it's also fairly quick from 80mph upwards, it's not worth 44k I can't really think of much else to say I'm not going to slag it off as I do like the product but 44k there having a laugh it's worth 30k and no more, I also drove a Boxter S and a 911 Carrea 4 both of which would take me far to long to type up and to be honest there not really worth talking about, yes the 911 was by far the best but it didn't leave me feeling like I'd want to spend 70k what a waste of a Saturday, I'm sure I'd love the GT3 but I think I'll be sticking to Lotus for the time being
Boggy
>> Edited by boggy on Monday 15th May 10:15
Well Saturday was a long day, first of all I had to drive through Essex to pick up my little Boy, then onto Dartford to drop Luis off at his Nan's (Anyone who's met Luis knows that there's no way I could take him on a test drive) turned up at the Porsche dealer an hour late traffic was horrendous, after being looked at up and down by the sales team was asked "can help you " by the receptionist (very polite) first impressions of Porsche not very good I'm afraid, the sales team looked more interested in the hair styles and flash suit's than actually selling car's, well that's what came across to me anyway, onto the first test drive I was taken towards a Metallic Blue Cayman S and promptly asked to sit in the passenger side, after what seemed ages the sales guy was telling me about Cup holder's and storage (Not interested in the slightest) he drove up the road and round a corner and asked me to then site in the driver's side, at no point was I given the time to take a look at the car even thou I'd told him 3 time's that this was the first time I'd seen a Cayman up close, anyway I jumped in the car and straight away realised what a complete waste of time this was going to be, as I pulled away I got that slight jump as the car took up the slack and it felt just like an Audi TT, as I drove through corner's and then up onto the duel carriage way it didn't seem that Quick, I was told by the sales guy not to give it the Max but at every opportunity I gave it as much as I could, I came away felling very disappointed it's not as quick as an R by any mean's, the only thing I can say is that it's a very good looking car, it's very well made, it's also fairly quick from 80mph upwards, it's not worth 44k I can't really think of much else to say I'm not going to slag it off as I do like the product but 44k there having a laugh it's worth 30k and no more, I also drove a Boxter S and a 911 Carrea 4 both of which would take me far to long to type up and to be honest there not really worth talking about, yes the 911 was by far the best but it didn't leave me feeling like I'd want to spend 70k what a waste of a Saturday, I'm sure I'd love the GT3 but I think I'll be sticking to Lotus for the time being
Boggy
>> Edited by boggy on Monday 15th May 10:15
Your impression of Porsche dealers is not unusual. It took me visits to 11 dealers (no, I'm not kidding) to find a decent guy that I could buy my first Porsche off. As for your impressions of the Cayman, I'm not surprised after the overall experience you had. The car's better than you think, though, and I'm sure a better/longer test drive would have left you more impressed. I agree with you about the 44k - which is a very basic price in any event as with a bit of spec they actually normally cost over 50K.
but I think I'll be going for an Exige S first The sad thing you have to remember about Porsche dealerships is that they don't actually have to actively push to sell the cars, and don't seem to care anyway. In the dealership round the corner from me its not uncommon for people to walk in and buy one without even driving it - and thats what leads to this attitude. Like you say its a nightmare even trying to get a drive. Which is a shame because there are many people who do love the cars. Compare that to my local lotus dealer, they got me to test drive two different models back to back.
>> Edited by Yee haa! on Monday 15th May 10:37
>> Edited by Yee haa! on Monday 15th May 10:37
There is a few porkers that I have immence respect for - GT3 and the older hairy chested turbo wagons, all of which you have to drive.
The modern porker drives just like a BMW. Why not cut out the middle man and go fully boring into a bimmer at least then you would have the wonderful i-drive...?
Boggy - you are too cool for this!
The modern porker drives just like a BMW. Why not cut out the middle man and go fully boring into a bimmer at least then you would have the wonderful i-drive...?
Boggy - you are too cool for this!
I've always been very impressed with Porsche Nottingham. They are friendly, they don't judge you and are very helpful, probably one of the best dealerships I've ever been in.
They even came over and told me it was raining when I left the roof off my car while I was playing in a GT3 RS
Paul
They even came over and told me it was raining when I left the roof off my car while I was playing in a GT3 RS
Paul
gooby said:
There is a few porkers that I have immence respect for - GT3 and the older hairy chested turbo wagons, all of which you have to drive.
The modern porker drives just like a BMW. Why not cut out the middle man and go fully boring into a bimmer at least then you would have the wonderful i-drive...?
Boggy - you are too cool for this!
Thank's Gooby and your right ! I'd be to worried what other people would think of me, I do like the mark but it just doesn't make sense (for us) Boggy
Gotta agree with Dan on this, GT3 is the best option at £45k by far.
I'm sure the Cayman is a great car (as mentioned, with a better test drive in a car which is well run-in you'd probably like it very much) BUT I agree that at it's price-point it's a big ask. Having said that, EVO have given it a good write-up and whilst they love their Porka's I can't imagine them being sold a pup.
As to boggy's next car? Personally I don't think it will roll onto his drive the same way it rolled out of Hethel, but then what do I know
I'm sure the Cayman is a great car (as mentioned, with a better test drive in a car which is well run-in you'd probably like it very much) BUT I agree that at it's price-point it's a big ask. Having said that, EVO have given it a good write-up and whilst they love their Porka's I can't imagine them being sold a pup.
As to boggy's next car? Personally I don't think it will roll onto his drive the same way it rolled out of Hethel, but then what do I know
Took my mate to collect his boxster S from Silverstone Porsche - when we got out the car one of the salesmen ran over to me asking if i was here to PX my car... he seemed a bit excited! - then another came up and thought I was Mr Haigh (the buyer)... ha ha they felt like muppets when I just said nothing and pointed at Ryan... ha ha
Having spent a lot of time in his Boxster it is a very very nice car, fully loaded with kit, and incredibly quick over 70MPH. It just keeps pulling with bags of torque even in 6th. I can't really ever imagine an Elise owner having the same fun in one though. It's just so refined. Which is great if you're into that sort of thing, but most Elise owners aren't. Is it worth the money?? (15k more than my elise) yeah i guess so if you like all the electrical gubbins that comes with it and you want more of a tourer as opposed to a hardore sports car. Personally I'd spend the money on an Ultima and have some change to pay for track insruance and track days
I can't comment on the 911 but i'd like to try one, maybe the 4s. But i would imagine the local dealership won't let me!
>> Edited by cheekymonkey on Monday 15th May 12:20
Having spent a lot of time in his Boxster it is a very very nice car, fully loaded with kit, and incredibly quick over 70MPH. It just keeps pulling with bags of torque even in 6th. I can't really ever imagine an Elise owner having the same fun in one though. It's just so refined. Which is great if you're into that sort of thing, but most Elise owners aren't. Is it worth the money?? (15k more than my elise) yeah i guess so if you like all the electrical gubbins that comes with it and you want more of a tourer as opposed to a hardore sports car. Personally I'd spend the money on an Ultima and have some change to pay for track insruance and track days
I can't comment on the 911 but i'd like to try one, maybe the 4s. But i would imagine the local dealership won't let me!
>> Edited by cheekymonkey on Monday 15th May 12:20
Test drove a Boxster S a little while ago. There isn't a great deal of sense of speed, and the feedback is - well it's kind of distant, not as involved as an Elise. It was only when I looked down at the speedo that I realised how fast I was going, pretty quick.
Have to say that the dealer experience was mixed. Booked a test drive - with no problem. When asked about the options, most were prefixed by, that's an expensive one -which was not the question I asked. Only when pushed for detail did I find out how much. So two or three questions to get the answer I was after.
Then a couple of weeks later I got a follow up call to ask when I was going to place an order. Not in a pushy sales kind of way, more in an irritated 'having to phone you is interrupting my day, so get on with it so I can play golf' kind of way.
It also makes me laugh that there are options that you have to have for resale purposes; so why aren't they on the car to start off with???
The options and dealers put me off buying a Porsche, but I do like the cars. The Cayman is a lovely looking car - IMHO...
Have to say that the dealer experience was mixed. Booked a test drive - with no problem. When asked about the options, most were prefixed by, that's an expensive one -which was not the question I asked. Only when pushed for detail did I find out how much. So two or three questions to get the answer I was after.
Then a couple of weeks later I got a follow up call to ask when I was going to place an order. Not in a pushy sales kind of way, more in an irritated 'having to phone you is interrupting my day, so get on with it so I can play golf' kind of way.
It also makes me laugh that there are options that you have to have for resale purposes; so why aren't they on the car to start off with???
The options and dealers put me off buying a Porsche, but I do like the cars. The Cayman is a lovely looking car - IMHO...
I had a similar experience at Silverston Porsche a couple of weekes ago, it took me nearly 40 minitues to actually make the guy realise I was serious even though id pulled up in my Elise. After dicking me around by telling me I had to put a deposit on a car bbefore I could drive it and generallly trying to find out if I was just a test pilot I got a result. He eventaully let me take out a Boxter S, which was the most dull and unengaging "sports" car id ever driven. I told him thanks and when he made a follow up call the next week I told him I was going to spend my money on an Exige instead.
If its a Porsche then it has to be a GT3 or nothing.
M
If its a Porsche then it has to be a GT3 or nothing.
M
Mr_C said:
I've always been very impressed with Porsche Nottingham. They are friendly, they don't judge you and are very helpful, probably one of the best dealerships I've ever been in.
They even came over and told me it was raining when I left the roof off my car while I was playing in a GT3 RS
Paul
Have to agree, my bro has bought two from Notts.
Nice chappies, personable and helpful.
Hmm. Seems like the salesmen have been largely correct in their assesments. Seems like a lot of time wasting has been going on.
I'm curious about comments on what cars are 'worth', such as a Cayman is 'worth' £30k, not £44k or whatever.
Anything is worth whatever the market will bear, its the market that largely sets the price. Obviously it will cost so much to produce any given car, and that has to be reflected in the price, assuming the market will bear it.
I reckon the Cayman will possibly replace the Boxster as the lowest depreciating car (I believe), and its the depreciation that you're really paying for, not the original purchase price.
I'm curious about comments on what cars are 'worth', such as a Cayman is 'worth' £30k, not £44k or whatever.
Anything is worth whatever the market will bear, its the market that largely sets the price. Obviously it will cost so much to produce any given car, and that has to be reflected in the price, assuming the market will bear it.
I reckon the Cayman will possibly replace the Boxster as the lowest depreciating car (I believe), and its the depreciation that you're really paying for, not the original purchase price.
Depends on your definition of time-wasting. You're making a bold assumption that people here cannot afford one. Be careful of such assumptions.
If I walk into a showroom and show intent, then it means I'm there and I want to be tempted.
I recently tried an Exige S and a 240 Cup, because I'm in the market to spend a not inconsiderable amount of money on a weekend car, and I wanted to weigh up the Hethel offerings vs. a Honda'd car. Had the Exige S been better, I guarantee you I'd be biting my fingernails to the bone waiting for mine to roll off the production line at Hethel right now, rather than having done a deal on another car.
I could afford a Boxter or Cayman, or a GT3 if I was prepared to make a small sacrifice or two, the fact that I have never been near a Porsche garage with intent is largely to do with exactly the kind of attitude which boggy and others have talked about, and which a friend who will very soon be in the market to purchase a 996 Turbo, has experienced.
Jumped-up rude little pricks, who make the wrong assumption just by looking at someone coming through the door, and not taking the time to get to know their client. If anyone asked me to put down a deposit on a car before a test drive I'd be very offended and likely as not, walk away without a second glance and take my money and business elsewhere.
If I walk into a showroom and show intent, then it means I'm there and I want to be tempted.
I recently tried an Exige S and a 240 Cup, because I'm in the market to spend a not inconsiderable amount of money on a weekend car, and I wanted to weigh up the Hethel offerings vs. a Honda'd car. Had the Exige S been better, I guarantee you I'd be biting my fingernails to the bone waiting for mine to roll off the production line at Hethel right now, rather than having done a deal on another car.
I could afford a Boxter or Cayman, or a GT3 if I was prepared to make a small sacrifice or two, the fact that I have never been near a Porsche garage with intent is largely to do with exactly the kind of attitude which boggy and others have talked about, and which a friend who will very soon be in the market to purchase a 996 Turbo, has experienced.
Jumped-up rude little pricks, who make the wrong assumption just by looking at someone coming through the door, and not taking the time to get to know their client. If anyone asked me to put down a deposit on a car before a test drive I'd be very offended and likely as not, walk away without a second glance and take my money and business elsewhere.
Guys,
Just my thoughts on above...having been an owner of a S1 135 Elise (from new) a V8GT (2nd hand from Lotus dealer) and my recently aquired (last Tuesday) 997 C2S;
- Maybe i was lucky, the salesman at the Porsche dealership was excellent. I rocked up on foot, explaining i didn't have a licence at that time for medical reasons but was looking at a 997 for when i did. I was about as scruffy as you can get, and he was professional, courteous as you could want. At that time the 997 wasn't even announced. Since then I had to wait 2 yrs for my licence back, and during which time i visited on a number of occasions - had a invite to the launch party, tickets to the Porsche stand at Motor show, he took me on a test drive when i didn't have a licence, and then a 2nd time for me to have a go when i did. Always called back....in fact i don't think he could have been more helpful. Had exactly the same experience with the Lotus dealers previously...Maybe i'm just lucky???
- On the car front - well, yes the 997 is much more refined than an Elise...and a bit more than and Esprit. Is it good fun?...yes(ish), she's still only got 350miles on her and have to keep below 4k, but the signs are there. I see all the comments on the GT3 front...but don't foget there is an option on the 'S' to have a -20mm LSS with LSD as a no cost option to the PASM - which i've gone for (not many people in the UK have, and it's not available in some markets - noteably US) - and it's *fantastic* - Way better than the standard or PASM suspensions - but not as harsh as the GT3 which is another notch up, i.e. -30mm lower and stiffer spring rates, etc. I also have what's known as the Sport Chrono pack which provides a 2nd engine mapping - in which throtle response is very similar to the V8GT i had, and sport exhuast. In fact, if any of you are interested the Porsche Press 997 (as per Top Gear tests, etc.) has -20mm and sport chrono - hence the rave reviews - it also has PCCB brakes which we're a little too rich for my blood!
- Yes it is way more expensive than an Elise, but as someone pointed out, you need to consider the depreciation rather than outright cost. Also, first service is at 2yrs or 20k miles and is £425 ....not including consumables such as pads, etc, which i'm sure i'll need!
I'm i happy with it, damn right, is it different to an Elise absolutely, is it as much fun...can't tell yet (breaking in) but signs are very good.
If i had the money i'd have an Elise and Esprit as well!
Cheers, Ash
Just my thoughts on above...having been an owner of a S1 135 Elise (from new) a V8GT (2nd hand from Lotus dealer) and my recently aquired (last Tuesday) 997 C2S;
- Maybe i was lucky, the salesman at the Porsche dealership was excellent. I rocked up on foot, explaining i didn't have a licence at that time for medical reasons but was looking at a 997 for when i did. I was about as scruffy as you can get, and he was professional, courteous as you could want. At that time the 997 wasn't even announced. Since then I had to wait 2 yrs for my licence back, and during which time i visited on a number of occasions - had a invite to the launch party, tickets to the Porsche stand at Motor show, he took me on a test drive when i didn't have a licence, and then a 2nd time for me to have a go when i did. Always called back....in fact i don't think he could have been more helpful. Had exactly the same experience with the Lotus dealers previously...Maybe i'm just lucky???
- On the car front - well, yes the 997 is much more refined than an Elise...and a bit more than and Esprit. Is it good fun?...yes(ish), she's still only got 350miles on her and have to keep below 4k, but the signs are there. I see all the comments on the GT3 front...but don't foget there is an option on the 'S' to have a -20mm LSS with LSD as a no cost option to the PASM - which i've gone for (not many people in the UK have, and it's not available in some markets - noteably US) - and it's *fantastic* - Way better than the standard or PASM suspensions - but not as harsh as the GT3 which is another notch up, i.e. -30mm lower and stiffer spring rates, etc. I also have what's known as the Sport Chrono pack which provides a 2nd engine mapping - in which throtle response is very similar to the V8GT i had, and sport exhuast. In fact, if any of you are interested the Porsche Press 997 (as per Top Gear tests, etc.) has -20mm and sport chrono - hence the rave reviews - it also has PCCB brakes which we're a little too rich for my blood!
- Yes it is way more expensive than an Elise, but as someone pointed out, you need to consider the depreciation rather than outright cost. Also, first service is at 2yrs or 20k miles and is £425 ....not including consumables such as pads, etc, which i'm sure i'll need!
I'm i happy with it, damn right, is it different to an Elise absolutely, is it as much fun...can't tell yet (breaking in) but signs are very good.
If i had the money i'd have an Elise and Esprit as well!
Cheers, Ash
I cancelled a Cayman for my Exige.
Main reason being it was to be 2nd car and the Boxster S i test drove just felt like a BMW around town and in 6/10ths driving.
A mate went ahead and bought one though. And it is definitely every bit as fast as the Exige. Probably quicker in reality as you dont need to be over the 6000 revs. Also cruises the motorway very nicely. But then its his only car.
Im glad i went for the Lotus but to be honest they are completely different cars, not sure you can really say one is better than the other.
Simon
Main reason being it was to be 2nd car and the Boxster S i test drove just felt like a BMW around town and in 6/10ths driving.
A mate went ahead and bought one though. And it is definitely every bit as fast as the Exige. Probably quicker in reality as you dont need to be over the 6000 revs. Also cruises the motorway very nicely. But then its his only car.
Im glad i went for the Lotus but to be honest they are completely different cars, not sure you can really say one is better than the other.
Simon
S Works is absolutely right, it's about perceptions and assumptions.
The fact is that Porsche tend to sell themselves; as a result (perhaps) the salespeople experienced thus far do not really have any idea that they are there to SERVE the customer, potential or otherwise.
With the little sacrifice, I could be tempted into a Porsche. However if they are this lax about taking money for the purchase, what would they be like if something went wrong. It would seem, from reading various postings on Porsche forums, that the dealer service support is less than good.
I won't go into huge detail here, but a fair while ago I worked in a camera shop. A customer came into the shop who didn't look as though he had any money at all. I showed him the same courtesy as any other customer - he ended up spending over £1500 - and that was over 15 years ago!!!!
Never judge a book by the cover and salesman should always remember, without the customer, you are unemployed. You might be browsing today, but buying tomorrow!!!!
The fact is that Porsche tend to sell themselves; as a result (perhaps) the salespeople experienced thus far do not really have any idea that they are there to SERVE the customer, potential or otherwise.
With the little sacrifice, I could be tempted into a Porsche. However if they are this lax about taking money for the purchase, what would they be like if something went wrong. It would seem, from reading various postings on Porsche forums, that the dealer service support is less than good.
I won't go into huge detail here, but a fair while ago I worked in a camera shop. A customer came into the shop who didn't look as though he had any money at all. I showed him the same courtesy as any other customer - he ended up spending over £1500 - and that was over 15 years ago!!!!
Never judge a book by the cover and salesman should always remember, without the customer, you are unemployed. You might be browsing today, but buying tomorrow!!!!
Gassing Station | Elise/Exige/Europa/340R | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff