Baffled sump ?

[steve-v8s]

Hello please advise ; My Griff 500 engine is being rebuilt and the builder advises that he fits a baffled sump in place of the standard part. The argument for this is I use the car for hill climbs and whizzing round corners could cause starvation which he says is indicated by the worn main bearings (42k engine). I think the wear may have happened when the engine ran on for about 40-50 seconds after the crank broke and snapped the oil pump drive.

Is a baffled sump at about 400 quid or so worth it or even necessary ?

Help please

[Boosted LS1]

The least you need is a horizontal plate welding across the sump with a hole for the dipstick. That'll cost £100.

The pukka item is a group 'A' big wing sump, very rare and I sold one of those for £400 some time ago. It had trap doors and all sorts of mods inside.

I would install something if it were me.

Boosted.

[steve-v8s]

I see power have one on their website for 225 +vat anybody seen one of those ?

[chassis 33]

I'm running one of John Eales baffled sumps on the Chim racer, see here www.beestore.co.uk/cgi-bin/eGreyl/eGreyl.cgi?&shop=johneales&language=eng&curr=0&product=New%20Parts

It may or may not be needed, but when you've spent a couple of k getting a sweet engine, a little more for some form of peace of mind is worth it.

Regards
Iain

[ben240z]

steve, a baffled sump is far cheaper than an engine rebuild and I would say that you are getting oil surge off the startline, round ashes and possibly under braking for the bottom of karousel. The oil pressure guage will not react quickly enough to register this even if you were looking at it at the right time. Bite the bullet and get the sump while the engine is being put together. If you want to look at it another way, what is the cost of a set of bearings and another crank. In my opinion you are throwing money away by not putting the sump on now ben

[steve-v8s]

Yep it seems to make sense and I have decided to go with the extra cost provided it doesn’t delay things any more. Don’t want the builder to have an excuse to miss the deadline again.

Hi Ben, still lurking in the dark depths of the TVR forum then, hopefully see you in a couple of weeks if it all works this time.

[v8 racing]

The later ones that john does are excellent now, they are similar to the old group a type, in the way they have little wings on them with 4 trap doors, price is around £500, the earlier ones as most people still sell can give more problems than they cure, there is no trap door front to back so on very hard exceleration and braking you get oil surge where you wouldnt with a standard sump, you also if kept the car nailed for a while the pump empties the baffled section quicker than the drain back can fill it back up!

[steve-v8s]

As is often the case things are not quite as simple as they initially seem. Thanks for that input Rob. Because of time constraints I have decided to go with the standard sump which at least has a rudimentary baffle so at least the engine can go back in the car and get mapped. As the sump will come off without too much hassle after it is all back together I can change it afterwards, and after doing a bit more research.

[stesrg]

Hmm have you seen the advert for pro-tec super lube an adative beter than slick 50, The american bloke drains his oil and puts sand in the engine and it still keeps going this would be a cheaper option
Ste.

[Boosted LS1]

stesrg said:

Hmm have you seen the advert for pro-tec super lube an adative beter than slick 50, The american bloke drains his oil and puts sand in the engine and it still keeps going this would be a cheaper option Ste.

Still keeps going whilst it's scratching up all the internals It would be a mess inside!

Boosted.

[stesrg]

Boosted LS1 said:

stesrg said: Hmm have you seen the advert for pro-tec super lube an adative beter than slick 50, The american bloke drains his oil and puts sand in the engine and it still keeps going this would be a cheaper option Ste. Still keeps going whilst it's scratching up all the internals It would be a mess inside! Boosted.

Yes I now it made me cringe but the facinating thing was they got a race car and treated it with this stuff drained his oil and went for a spin and the engine never sized up
so was just a thought
Ste

[Boosted LS1]

stesrg said:

Boosted LS1 said: stesrg said: Hmm have you seen the advert for pro-tec super lube an adative beter than slick 50, The american bloke drains his oil and puts sand in the engine and it still keeps going this would be a cheaper option Ste. Still keeps going whilst it's scratching up all the internals It would be a mess inside! Boosted. Yes I now it made me cringe but the facinating thing was they got a race car and treated it with this stuff drained his oil and went for a spin and the engine never sized up so was just a thought Ste

I think these products put a coating on the metal which protects it for a while. I can imagine that whilst the whole piston skirt would be coated overall it would start to get some pretty horrile scratches from the sand. Eventually you'd have more scratches then coating. As for the bearing shells, they would probably soak up the sand for a while at least.

The Northstar engine is pretty impressive. I think it can shut down cylinders and also run without oil. It shuts down the overheating cylinders and runs on the ones which have cooled down a pit. It's probably got tefloned pistons like the vette.

Boosted.

[v8 racing]

I dont realy know who to beleive with this kind of stuff, you speak to companys like opeil oils and other supliers and they say dont use it, however i have witnessed at first hand a demonstration that slick 50 did in 1989 where they ran a metro 6r4 with no sump on it for 50 hard laps around mallory park after being treated, driven by roger clark, they then turned the car on a cradle so people could look at the shells etc and they were like new!!, my dad who raced in the slick 50 road saloons shredded a fan belt off the line at brands hatch and by the end of the first last it was overheating, he still went on to win the race, we put a new belt on put water in and off he went again with no damage, a friend that runs a twin turbo e30 bmw v8 in mod sallons kept doing wheel bearings every meeting, just out of interest we left some new bearings in this stuff {sorry cant remember the name!} over night fitted them he has since done 9 meetings with no need to change them?? so who do you believe!!!

[Guillotine]

v8 racing said:

The later ones that john does are excellent now, they are similar to the old group a type, in the way they have little wings on them with 4 trap doors, price is around £500, the earlier ones as most people still sell can give more problems than they cure, there is no trap door front to back so on very hard exceleration and braking you get oil surge where you wouldnt with a standard sump, you also if kept the car nailed for a while the pump empties the baffled section quicker than the drain back can fill it back up!

Hi Rob,

I used one of these and it did improve things dramatically...but i was STILL getting surge in combinations of two corners ie LRL RLR. the oil stays in the rockers.
this was my 300bhp engine with road slix. With normal road tyres it should be OK.

another way to go would be a an Accusump. used in caterhams etc where no room/money for dry sumps. basically an additional tank sump fed via a sandwich plate which give a secondary supply if the sump dry for a sec or two.

worth a look

andy
monster

[v8 racing]

Which one did you use andy as john has only just started doing these new ones i was explaining, did you have the early ones with just 2 trap doors? out of interest i do use acusumps but they dont work that well on preserps!

[Guillotine]

Rob,

I'm thought mine was a john eales one, thought it was a four gate too...but could have been a two it seems. had lots of loverly welding work in there besides the doors (shaped for clearance etc. Rich got it and put it in for me....so it could well have come from you!!!
it was done in a rush between trackdays due to using road slix.

andy