Damaged laptop - part 2
Discussion
I'm having a bit of a dispute with my insurer over a damaged laptop, which was running Windows XP Pro and Office Professional 2003 applications on a 10Gb hard drive with 256Mb of RAM, perfectly well for several months before the accident. MS say that 128Mb RAM is required for the operating system (actually 64Mb minimum, but not recommended) and 128Mb RAM for the applications suite. It's my belief that these requirements are not cumulative, but the insurer has been advised that installing both of these software packages would take up the entire RAM (2 x 128Mb required). This is surely incorrect? They're also saying that to install XP Pro to it's "minimum level" needs 128Mb RAM but to run at "full capacity" 256Mb is required. Is there any way of only getting XP Pro to run at part capacity? I didn't think you could part install it. Are they talking B*****s?
They're also contending that XP Pro takes 6Gb of hard disc to "fully install", although you can do a "minimum install" using 1.5Gb, but this would be of limited use. There's no mention of this minimum install on the MS site, which says 1.5Gb is required. Am I being misled?
They're essentially saying that the tech. spec. of the laptop would not have supported these software packages, i.e. inferring that I am misleading them, which I am definitely not!
Any advice gratefully received.
7.
They're also contending that XP Pro takes 6Gb of hard disc to "fully install", although you can do a "minimum install" using 1.5Gb, but this would be of limited use. There's no mention of this minimum install on the MS site, which says 1.5Gb is required. Am I being misled?
They're essentially saying that the tech. spec. of the laptop would not have supported these software packages, i.e. inferring that I am misleading them, which I am definitely not!
Any advice gratefully received.
7.
What is the damage you are trying to claim for?
Why does an insurer give a monkeys whether the spec is correct or not? Depending on what you are doing and your performance expectations then you might want anything from 128Mb to 1Gb+ to run XP & Office...
Is there argument that you are trying to get replacement XP Pro and Office, or that you are trying to get a higher spec. laptop than you had?
If I was the insurer I wouldn't be paying out for XP or Office, as you should have the media & licences to do a reinstall yourself.
Why does an insurer give a monkeys whether the spec is correct or not? Depending on what you are doing and your performance expectations then you might want anything from 128Mb to 1Gb+ to run XP & Office...
Is there argument that you are trying to get replacement XP Pro and Office, or that you are trying to get a higher spec. laptop than you had?
If I was the insurer I wouldn't be paying out for XP or Office, as you should have the media & licences to do a reinstall yourself.
k50 del said:And I run it on a laptop with 1Gb of RAM, and sometimes it is not enough.
I run windows and office XP quite happily on a home PC with 64mb RAM - it's a little slow sometimes, and multitasking is a definate no-no, but it boots and works with no issues.
The point being, any argument about how much (or how little) RAM you require to run Office & Windows is (in this context) pointless.
UpTheIron said:
What is the damage you are trying to claim for?
Why does an insurer give a monkeys whether the spec is correct or not? Depending on what you are doing and your performance expectations then you might want anything from 128Mb to 1Gb+ to run XP & Office...
Is there argument that you are trying to get replacement XP Pro and Office, or that you are trying to get a higher spec. laptop than you had?
If I was the insurer I wouldn't be paying out for XP or Office, as you should have the media & licences to do a reinstall yourself.
It's a long story, been running over 2 months now. Originally busted screen (hit a concrete floor). Repairer changed that, and, unknown to me or insurer, put a s/h motherboard in with a BIOS password, which the repairer wasn't aware of. Got it back, running fine for a week or so, then crashed, wouldn't boot. Couldn't change the boot order to boot from cd because of the password. Sent it back, they removed the password, tried to re-install XP Pro and Office and crashed again, won't boot at all. Damage to hard drive??? Part of the problem is that the laptop was a gift to me s/h, so I do not have installation discs, but borrowed some. Told the insurer that at the outset, and I'm not prepared to borrow again. They've failed to repair twice, so I want a replacement.
7.
UpTheIron said:
The point being, any argument about how much (or how little) RAM you require to run Office & Windows is (in this context) pointless.
I can only be guided by what MS say are requirements, which I am using in my argument with the insurer. The crux of this is, are RAM requirements cumultative or not, and can you part install XP Pro?
7.
Official MS XP minimum system requirements.
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/31486
Official MS XP minimum system requirements.
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/28534
In reality your system had too little to run the packages efficiently but it was up to MS specifications. They ran and that's what was in the box so that's what you should get in return. 1/2 gig is the minimum I would try and use those particular packages with though.
It's not for them to decide if your system was any good.
>> Edited by BliarOut on Wednesday 17th May 09:54
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/31486
Official MS XP minimum system requirements.
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/28534
On that Office XP link Microsoft said:
128 megabytes (MB) of RAM is required for the operating system, plus an additional 8 MB of RAM for each program running simultaneously.
In reality your system had too little to run the packages efficiently but it was up to MS specifications. They ran and that's what was in the box so that's what you should get in return. 1/2 gig is the minimum I would try and use those particular packages with though.
It's not for them to decide if your system was any good.
>> Edited by BliarOut on Wednesday 17th May 09:54
number 7 said:So was your install of the software legal? No insurance company is going to install software for you otherwise...even then, you would have to provide CD keys etc.
What is the damage you are trying to claim for?
Why does an insurer give a monkeys whether the spec is correct or not? Depending on what you are doing and your performance expectations then you might want anything from 128Mb to 1Gb+ to run XP & Office...
Is there argument that you are trying to get replacement XP Pro and Office, or that you are trying to get a higher spec. laptop than you had?
If I was the insurer I wouldn't be paying out for XP or Office, as you should have the media & licences to do a reinstall yourself.
It's a long story, been running over 2 months now. Originally busted screen (hit a concrete floor). Repairer changed that, and, unknown to me or insurer, put a s/h motherboard in with a BIOS password, which the repairer wasn't aware of. Got it back, running fine for a week or so, then crashed, wouldn't boot. Couldn't change the boot order to boot from cd because of the password. Sent it back, they removed the password, tried to re-install XP Pro and Office and crashed again, won't boot at all. Damage to hard drive??? Part of the problem is that the laptop was a gift to me s/h, so I do not have installation discs, but borrowed some. Told the insurer that at the outset, and I'm not prepared to borrow again. They've failed to repair twice, so I want a replacement.
7.
If you won't accept a repair, I would guess you are looking at a cash settlement. What is the insurance policy - home insurance with accidental damage? What does it say about new-for-old?
BliarOut said:
In reality your system had too little to run the packages efficiently. However, they ran and that's what was in the box so that's what you should get in return. 1/2 gig is the minimum I would try and use those particular packages with.
It's not for them to decide if your system was any good.
Right on. I guess the problem is that they simply don't believe what you are saying. Unfortunately, due to the re-installing you've since had to do, there's no proof that you had what you say you had.
BTW as you well know, the spec you had originally was certainly capable of running the software you had, maybe a bit slowly but that's your problem not theirs.
tycho said:
The insurer will never pay out for any software on the laptop as has been pointed out. Even if Dell come out to replace one of our laptops, they'll not even put an os on the disk. The assumption is that you'll have a copy of the software and the license key for is seperately.
Well the software replacement is a separate issue, although clearly is they refuse to do it I am not being put back into my original position, which, maybe naively, I thought insurance was for. The fact is I don't have the discs, so the device is unuseable.
The important thing for me is to refute their assertion that the laptop couldn't have run that software, which effectively means they're accusing me of a fraudulent claim.
7.
number 7 said:The links I posted above and in particular the passage I hilighted in bold catagorically refutes that claim. The links are to official source Microsoft specifications. Job done IMO.
The insurer will never pay out for any software on the laptop as has been pointed out. Even if Dell come out to replace one of our laptops, they'll not even put an os on the disk. The assumption is that you'll have a copy of the software and the license key for is seperately.
Well the software replacement is a separate issue, although clearly is they refuse to do it I am not being put back into my original position, which, maybe naively, I thought insurance was for. The fact is I don't have the discs, so the device is unuseable.
The important thing for me is to refute their assertion that the laptop couldn't have run that software, which effectively means they're accusing me of a fraudulent claim.
7.
UpTheIron said:
So was your install of the software legal? No insurance company is going to install software for you otherwise...even then, you would have to provide CD keys etc.
If you won't accept a repair, I would guess you are looking at a cash settlement. What is the insurance policy - home insurance with accidental damage? What does it say about new-for-old?
Well I'm assuming that the device wss given to me in a legal state. I borrowed discs subsequently to help them and me resolve the issue. Don't know whether that's regarded as legal or not. Don't know what CD keys are I'm afraid. Don't really see the point of a cash settlement, I want a working laptop.The insurance covers accidental damage: repair or replacement by new. In fact on two separate occasions the claims assesor offered replacements, which I declined because of tech. issues on one, and differing spec. on the other. they've now pulled all of that and say no more repairs or replacement as it's a software issue.
7.
>> Edited by number 7 on Wednesday 17th May 10:13
number 7 said:That's an enormous assumption.
Well I'm assuming that the device was given to me in a legal state.
If your laptop has a hardware fault and is covered by your insurance, then they should repair or replace it. I'd be astonished if they cover software at all, assuming we're talking about normal household contents insurance and not some special superstore "care plan" or something.
Saying it "crashed again" and "won't boot" are a bit too vague for anyone here to say whether it's a hardware or software problem, I think.
If all the repairer was doing was removing the BIOS password, then you shouldn't have needed to reinstall the software, because they wouldn't / shouldn't have been near it.
There surely must be more to this.
number 7 said:
The important thing for me is to refute their assertion that the laptop couldn't have run that software, which effectively means they're accusing me of a fraudulent claim.
Hang on a sec - it seems that they're saying you're claiming for a machine that was too low a spec...
Perhaps the way to play it is to say "Hang on, you're right - I actually had double the processor speed, 4x the memory and 10x the disc space. Happy now?"
jamieboy said:
Well I'm assuming that the device was given to me in a legal state.
If your laptop has a hardware fault and is covered by your insurance, then they should repair or replace it. I'd be astonished if they cover software at all, assuming we're talking about normal household contents insurance and not some special superstore "care plan" or something.
Saying it "crashed again" and "won't boot" are a bit too vague for anyone here to say whether it's a hardware or software problem, I think.
If all the repairer was doing was removing the BIOS password, then you shouldn't have needed to reinstall the software, because they wouldn't / shouldn't have been near it.
There surely must be more to this.
No more of an assumption than the one the insurer is making by saying that the laptop won't work with that level of RAM and software. The unit crashed after the repairer installed the s/h motherboard (unauthorised by the assesor)and I only discovered the existence of a BIOS password because I was trying to change the boot order from hard drive to CD in an attempt to boot up from disc. It crashed again after they removed the password, so I'm suspecting hard drive damge from the original impact. I not aking for a diagnosis so much as expert opinion as to whether RAM requirements are cumulative, and whether you can part install XP Pro, which the insurer is suggesting you can.
7.
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number 7 said:Well you now have all the info you need to refute their memory criticisms. 128MB + 8MB for each simultaneous running application. That's not just an expert opinion, it's Microsofts own recommendation cast in stone.
It has felt like that over the past 2 months, especially when the assessor said they were going to replace it, at cost to them not the insurer(!!), an offer which was later withdrawn.
7.
number 7 said:OK, BliarOut has answered the first part of that twice now. You can't "part install" XP Pro, but you can install it with a minimum set of components. I've just done an 'accept the defaults' install of XP Pro, and it is taking up approx 2.5GB, including a 600MB page file.
I not aking for a diagnosis so much as expert opinion as to whether RAM requirements are cumulative, and whether you can part install XP Pro, which the insurer is suggesting you can.
7.
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edit to clarify - that's 2.5GB of disk space, not 2.5GB RAM
>> Edited by jamieboy on Wednesday 17th May 11:06
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