Discussion
Had a close one today in the car. 30mph housing estate, obscured vision roundabout. Check right, all clear. Proceed. Check right again, 60mph Merc looms large. Ooops. Thanks ABS. Merc driver ends up doing 30mph, but waaaaay past where I was. I stop 3ft over the giveways.
Made me think that sometimes, just sometimes, the 30mph limit might be more appropiate that I had previously thought. Yes it's a pain going that slow, but not as much of a pain as a crash & injuries. And I'm not worried about people doing 35, but Merc man was extracting the urine. Well I hope he got as much of shock as I did.
To balance this out, why haven't we got derestricted motorways, and 90mph dual carriage ways yet?
Keep it shiney side up folkes.
C
Made me think that sometimes, just sometimes, the 30mph limit might be more appropiate that I had previously thought. Yes it's a pain going that slow, but not as much of a pain as a crash & injuries. And I'm not worried about people doing 35, but Merc man was extracting the urine. Well I hope he got as much of shock as I did.
To balance this out, why haven't we got derestricted motorways, and 90mph dual carriage ways yet?
Keep it shiney side up folkes.
C
There is no doubt in my mind that there are 30 (and 20!) limits that are completely justified, reasonable, important and should be enforced. Similarly I can point out a range of utterly ridiculous, politically motivated ones that defy logic - and are therefore comprhensively ignored.
If only we set the limits right - more people would respect the limits. Leading to a beneficial, upward spiral.
And yes! This could well mean MUCH higher limits on motorways and dual carriageways with a proven safety record.
But there are too many car-haters in local government for this to happen. One day, maybe. So in the mean time you and I will go on driving at the speed we calculate to be safe and reasonably likely to avoid detection and sometimes this may mean not driving at the posted speed limit - under and over.
And, sadly, there will always be the odd t
t with utter disregard for both the limit and, more importantly, safety and the ability to stop in the distance that can be seen to be clear who will spoil it for the rest of us...
Glad you're OK!
If only we set the limits right - more people would respect the limits. Leading to a beneficial, upward spiral.
And yes! This could well mean MUCH higher limits on motorways and dual carriageways with a proven safety record.
But there are too many car-haters in local government for this to happen. One day, maybe. So in the mean time you and I will go on driving at the speed we calculate to be safe and reasonably likely to avoid detection and sometimes this may mean not driving at the posted speed limit - under and over.
And, sadly, there will always be the odd t
t with utter disregard for both the limit and, more importantly, safety and the ability to stop in the distance that can be seen to be clear who will spoil it for the rest of us... Glad you're OK!
Exactly.
How many times have I driven past a school during pick up time, and slowed right down to 10mph, and then had the mothers coming to collect little johhny scream right up my backside....
It is surely all about being sensible? I mean, 100mph on a perfectly straight 4 lane motorway is fine, but a 40mph limit on a perfectly straight dual carriageway in the middle of nowhere isn't.....
Sadly, people like Mr Merc are probably very anti-speeding.. I know plenty of the people where I live who have "speed kills" etc.. stickers all over their cars, putter along at 40mph in the national, then as we hit my village and I slow to 30, they somehow or other start to pull away from me...........
How many times have I driven past a school during pick up time, and slowed right down to 10mph, and then had the mothers coming to collect little johhny scream right up my backside....
It is surely all about being sensible? I mean, 100mph on a perfectly straight 4 lane motorway is fine, but a 40mph limit on a perfectly straight dual carriageway in the middle of nowhere isn't.....
Sadly, people like Mr Merc are probably very anti-speeding.. I know plenty of the people where I live who have "speed kills" etc.. stickers all over their cars, putter along at 40mph in the national, then as we hit my village and I slow to 30, they somehow or other start to pull away from me...........
These people have made a judgement: they say to themselves "Yes the 30 mph limit is all very well but I'm a cleverer / better driver than most so I know better what's safe and what isn't" so they choose an "appropriate" speed that's higher (or lower) than the posted limit. Sometimes they are wrong, as evidenced from the OP.
Which one of us doesn't do exactly the same thing? Which one of us doesn't decide "Ach I can go faster, it's ok" And, the question is, are we always right? And how do we know?
For example, the OP could have read differently (and I intend no disrespect to the original poster who I think is quite right). What if somebody had posted this?
No doubt there would follow a whole stream of posts saying "yeah get these blind numpties off the road..." etc etc
Now I say again I am not criticising the OP - there is a roundabout just up the road from my work where exactly the same thing happens to me, where people are charging across from my right because they can see the roundabout is clear but I can't see them. But from their point of view, they think they are brilliant and just don't see that they are doing anything wrong.
Have you ever, ever, managed to convince another driver that he was wrong, no matter what the circumstances? Have you ever been convinced by another driver that you might have been wrong?
Mr Merc driver wouldn't. His speed was perfectly safe. I mean, he didn't crash, did he?
It's all a matter of perspective!
Which one of us doesn't do exactly the same thing? Which one of us doesn't decide "Ach I can go faster, it's ok" And, the question is, are we always right? And how do we know?
For example, the OP could have read differently (and I intend no disrespect to the original poster who I think is quite right). What if somebody had posted this?
alternative viewpoint said:
I was driving along in my Merc in a stupid 30 mph limit, one where you can see for miles, except for one of those stupid wee roundabouts. Well as I entered the roundabout, this total blind tosser pulled out from the left, right in front of me! Well because I am a super-hero driver I was able to slow down and swerve while he just stomped on the anchors and gawped - If I hadn't been so damn good I'd have T-boned the idiot and he deserved it too. He would probably say I was doing 60 mph. What's wrong with these people?
No doubt there would follow a whole stream of posts saying "yeah get these blind numpties off the road..." etc etc
Now I say again I am not criticising the OP - there is a roundabout just up the road from my work where exactly the same thing happens to me, where people are charging across from my right because they can see the roundabout is clear but I can't see them. But from their point of view, they think they are brilliant and just don't see that they are doing anything wrong.
Have you ever, ever, managed to convince another driver that he was wrong, no matter what the circumstances? Have you ever been convinced by another driver that you might have been wrong?
Mr Merc driver wouldn't. His speed was perfectly safe. I mean, he didn't crash, did he?
It's all a matter of perspective!
This wasn't a 30 DC road, with good vis. It is a built up area, narrow roads, and school nearby. The roundabout was "designed" to have bad vis in a misguided effort to slow traffic down! I was being ultra cautious & it was blatently clear that matey couldn't stop in the distance if he had to. I was just saying that *sometimes* there are limits that even I approve of... and that's coming from someone who does not hang around. The expression of shock on the blokes face was worthwhile. Just wish I'd been driving an artic & pulled out all the way.
I think a vast proportion of people simply drive along at a speed they think is safe, sensible, reasonably likely to avoid detection etc. Most of the time this seems to be fine, with the odd error of judgement resulting in an accident. Some more people seem to blindly adhere to all speed limits to the letter, and believe that NSL = 40mph. By and large, they aren't a problem either.
The problem people are the ones who simply don't care about safety. I know and have spoken to a couple. They will bomb through villages at 60/70mph, completely nonplussed about the consequences. If they crash, so what, right? They'll probably be OK.
I came across one of these a while ago, on an A road near me that runs past a village. Not through it, but past it. You have to turn off into a side road to enter the cul-de-sac bits type village. Fairly sensibly, it's a 50mph limit - there are kids around, a park over to one side. I was driving through this section one evening, came up to the blind 60-70 degree left hander, over a crest. There's double white lines obviously, and I eased off to 40mph, headlights coming the other way, fine I think. Come around the sharp bend, and there's 2 cars side by side. One obeying the 50mph limit, and another car (hot hatch, didn't have time to see) mid overtake! On the double white lines, not 20 yards short of a blind bend that he would have seen my full beams shining round not a second before.
I didn't have time to move foot to brake, just had to swerve up into the grass, the overtakee hit the brakes - as evidenced by the nose of the car diving, and the overtaker burned through the gap with barely a foot either side at 60mph+.
It's these sort of people that get my goat - they simply have no thought for their own safety (fair enough really), or that of others (inexcuseable). I could well have lost my legs that evening. Sobering thought!
The problem people are the ones who simply don't care about safety. I know and have spoken to a couple. They will bomb through villages at 60/70mph, completely nonplussed about the consequences. If they crash, so what, right? They'll probably be OK.
I came across one of these a while ago, on an A road near me that runs past a village. Not through it, but past it. You have to turn off into a side road to enter the cul-de-sac bits type village. Fairly sensibly, it's a 50mph limit - there are kids around, a park over to one side. I was driving through this section one evening, came up to the blind 60-70 degree left hander, over a crest. There's double white lines obviously, and I eased off to 40mph, headlights coming the other way, fine I think. Come around the sharp bend, and there's 2 cars side by side. One obeying the 50mph limit, and another car (hot hatch, didn't have time to see) mid overtake! On the double white lines, not 20 yards short of a blind bend that he would have seen my full beams shining round not a second before.
I didn't have time to move foot to brake, just had to swerve up into the grass, the overtakee hit the brakes - as evidenced by the nose of the car diving, and the overtaker burned through the gap with barely a foot either side at 60mph+.
It's these sort of people that get my goat - they simply have no thought for their own safety (fair enough really), or that of others (inexcuseable). I could well have lost my legs that evening. Sobering thought!
deeps said:
Hertsbiker, what do you mean by obscured vision round-about?
Not being funny but I've never experienced any round-about where visibility has been deliberately obscured to the extent that I pull out into someone's path and force them to swerve.
The buildings & hedges all go closely up to the road, hence you don't see to the right until you are on top of the giveway line. The problem was not me "not seeing" but one of the other car not being there when I checked first. Thus his estimated doubling of the limit caused him to be out of visual when the roundabout was approached *within* the speed limit.
I'm not sure why people seem to be advocating that he was in the right for driving like an idiot? maybe it's just me.
deeps said:He didn't pull out into someones path. In the line of sight he had, suitable for a 30mph road, there was no one there,
Hertsbiker, what do you mean by obscured vision round-about?
Not being funny but I've never experienced any round-about where visibility has been deliberately obscured to the extent that I pull out into someone's path and force them to swerve.
There are lots of smaller roundabouts that are offset(for choice of other words), giving better visibility from what would be the main road. Totaly wrong in my opinion, because of what happens to Hertsbiker. Driver on main road does not slow down because their vision to the right is clear.
I have seen this same thing happen many times.
The HC says you must look both ways before emerging from a junction. This includes roundabouts because they are junctions. If Hertsbiker was on the roundabout before Merc man, then Merc man was in the wrong
hertsbiker said:
Hertsbiker, what do you mean by obscured vision round-about?
Not being funny but I've never experienced any round-about where visibility has been deliberately obscured to the extent that I pull out into someone's path and force them to swerve.
The buildings & hedges all go closely up to the road, hence you don't see to the right until you are on top of the giveway line. The problem was not me "not seeing" but one of the other car not being there when I checked first. Thus his estimated doubling of the limit caused him to be out of visual when the roundabout was approached *within* the speed limit.
I'm not sure why people seem to be advocating that he was in the right for driving like an idiot? maybe it's just me.
Hiya Carl, I trust you're well.
I don't think other folk are suggesting Mr Merc. was in the right. It seems to be the case that you checked quite properly and it was clear, so you move off, then Mr Merc. makes his first appearance (not previously being in your view because of his excessive speed) so then there's a problem - of his making.
Best wishes,
Dave.
TripleS said:
I don't think other folk are suggesting Mr Merc. was in the right. It seems to be the case that you checked quite properly and it was clear, so you move off, then Mr Merc. makes his first appearance (not previously being in your view because of his excessive speed) so then there's a problem - of his making.
All I was saying is that Mr Merc probably still thinks he's in the right.
>> Edited by tvrgit on Friday 19th May 23:08
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