Learning from mistakes
Discussion
I've just started reading roadcraft before joining an IAM group over the summer sometime.
I've got to page 3, and I have a question already!
In the last 2 1/2 years 2 people have driven into the back of my car; which makes me think I'm doing something wrong, something that I havent appreciated yet.
To help with this I'll explain the circumstances.
1st time: I'm stopped waiting to turn right towards the right hand side of the lane (plenty of room to pass to the left of me), indicator and brake lights on, helm straight ahead. I've been stopped 2 or 3 seconds, there isnt a gap in the traffic so I continue to wait. I hear tyres skid behind me, then a thud as a green Pug 106 (which about 1/4 mile before pulled out of a junction behind me) hits me. I check its safe to pull over to the left and do so.
2nd time: I'm gingerly making my way down a slight hill, the surface is compacted snow/slush and there are school children on the footpath to my left. The next car is 25m odd infront, I'm doing no more than 2 or 3mph doing my best not to lock the wheel (no ABS). There is a steeper bit 30m ahead, and a narrow bit 100m or so ahead where there is a queue of traffic; I decide to stop before it gets steep, check the mirrors first and there is now a mondeo behind me (but not doing anything unreasonable). The car stops, I wait with the handbrake on and foot on the brakes. A few seconds later I get hit by the mondeo, which pushes the car towards the kerb, coming to rest with the n/s wheels against the kerb. That scared me because there were kids on the pavement right next to the car.
The only fault I can find is not checking my rear view mirror after stopping to make sure I wasnt about to be rear ended (in both cases); is this something that I should be doing? Sure in the first case I might have been able to drive straight on then turn round, but in the second I would have ended up going faster than I wanted on a very slippery surface.
In both cases there was no damage to my car, I had towbars on both cars which I fitted so checked all the important bits and they were fine. But that isnt the issue.
Any advices appreciated,
Hugh
I've got to page 3, and I have a question already!
In the last 2 1/2 years 2 people have driven into the back of my car; which makes me think I'm doing something wrong, something that I havent appreciated yet.
To help with this I'll explain the circumstances.
1st time: I'm stopped waiting to turn right towards the right hand side of the lane (plenty of room to pass to the left of me), indicator and brake lights on, helm straight ahead. I've been stopped 2 or 3 seconds, there isnt a gap in the traffic so I continue to wait. I hear tyres skid behind me, then a thud as a green Pug 106 (which about 1/4 mile before pulled out of a junction behind me) hits me. I check its safe to pull over to the left and do so.
2nd time: I'm gingerly making my way down a slight hill, the surface is compacted snow/slush and there are school children on the footpath to my left. The next car is 25m odd infront, I'm doing no more than 2 or 3mph doing my best not to lock the wheel (no ABS). There is a steeper bit 30m ahead, and a narrow bit 100m or so ahead where there is a queue of traffic; I decide to stop before it gets steep, check the mirrors first and there is now a mondeo behind me (but not doing anything unreasonable). The car stops, I wait with the handbrake on and foot on the brakes. A few seconds later I get hit by the mondeo, which pushes the car towards the kerb, coming to rest with the n/s wheels against the kerb. That scared me because there were kids on the pavement right next to the car.
The only fault I can find is not checking my rear view mirror after stopping to make sure I wasnt about to be rear ended (in both cases); is this something that I should be doing? Sure in the first case I might have been able to drive straight on then turn round, but in the second I would have ended up going faster than I wanted on a very slippery surface.
In both cases there was no damage to my car, I had towbars on both cars which I fitted so checked all the important bits and they were fine. But that isnt the issue.
Any advices appreciated,
Hugh
If you are aware of what is behind you before you brake, and any vehicles are not too close, and you are not coming to a sudden and unexpected halt, I would say that you are unlucky. If you see that you have to come to a stop well in advance of a hazard, you can brake sooner than normal (very gentle application of brake) to alert following vehicles that may be travelling too close that you are slowing down and about to come to a stop.
Unlucky.
If you are stationary there is not a lot you can do, but if you have left yourself room, you can sometime use that weasel room when you see smoke coming from the wheel arches of the car behind. It's as simple as asking yourself each time you stop what the liklihood of a rear-end shunt is and what your escape route is. Obviously on a fast d/c tuning right in a small filter lane at night this might be higher than in slow moving traffic with a clear filter lane and a stationary truck behind you.
Your mirrors are your best friend in this scenario - first gear and eye on the mirror until safe or time to pull away.
If you are stationary there is not a lot you can do, but if you have left yourself room, you can sometime use that weasel room when you see smoke coming from the wheel arches of the car behind. It's as simple as asking yourself each time you stop what the liklihood of a rear-end shunt is and what your escape route is. Obviously on a fast d/c tuning right in a small filter lane at night this might be higher than in slow moving traffic with a clear filter lane and a stationary truck behind you.
Your mirrors are your best friend in this scenario - first gear and eye on the mirror until safe or time to pull away.
The problem with spotting cars behind you not going to stop is that it low speeds by the time it is obvious, it is too late. Once, I was stopped at lights on an urban dual carriageway and noticed thet a car behind me left the braking quite late, and then locked up. I had time to pull forwards into the gap between the car in front, and it's neighbour. The skidding car stopped almost exactly where I had been, pat self on back.
Many years later I was stopped at lights in a 30 limit in Hemel and after ten seconds or so a car drove into the back of me. The driver didn't appear to make any attempt to slow down and he hit me at about 30 mph, writing his car off and severely scratching the paint on the V8S. He got within a couple of seconds of hitting me before I realized he was going to, and I had it in gear with the throttle buried and the clutch at the biting point when he hit me; I hadn't moved an inch.
The third time somebody tried this, I was at a roundabout on the outskirts of Milton Keynes waiting to join the roundabout. I was looking towards the approaching traffic trying to spot a suitable gap, as you do. I wasn't making any attempt to look at the cars behind me, not that it would have done any good because due to the curve of the road I couldn't have seen far enough back to do any good.
My conclusion is that in low speed situations there's really not much you can do to stop people running in to you other than make yourself visible (brakes, indicators) and hope for the best. I have stuck to the habbit of keeping a car length clear in front of me, giving me somewhere to go if I have time, and avoiding being pushed into the car in front if I don't.
Many years later I was stopped at lights in a 30 limit in Hemel and after ten seconds or so a car drove into the back of me. The driver didn't appear to make any attempt to slow down and he hit me at about 30 mph, writing his car off and severely scratching the paint on the V8S. He got within a couple of seconds of hitting me before I realized he was going to, and I had it in gear with the throttle buried and the clutch at the biting point when he hit me; I hadn't moved an inch.
The third time somebody tried this, I was at a roundabout on the outskirts of Milton Keynes waiting to join the roundabout. I was looking towards the approaching traffic trying to spot a suitable gap, as you do. I wasn't making any attempt to look at the cars behind me, not that it would have done any good because due to the curve of the road I couldn't have seen far enough back to do any good.
My conclusion is that in low speed situations there's really not much you can do to stop people running in to you other than make yourself visible (brakes, indicators) and hope for the best. I have stuck to the habbit of keeping a car length clear in front of me, giving me somewhere to go if I have time, and avoiding being pushed into the car in front if I don't.
I was hit in the tail twice in the very early years of my driving career, and it has always left me rather sensitive to this problem.
What I try to do these days is be especially alert to situations where it seems likely I shall need to stop, in which case I slow down early and make a following vehicle bring their speed down at the same rate, until we both stop or find that we can carry on at reduced speed etc. Of course if there is nobody in sight behind you at the time you're stopping, you just have to try to leave yourself room to move in case of need, as Peter mentioned above.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
What I try to do these days is be especially alert to situations where it seems likely I shall need to stop, in which case I slow down early and make a following vehicle bring their speed down at the same rate, until we both stop or find that we can carry on at reduced speed etc. Of course if there is nobody in sight behind you at the time you're stopping, you just have to try to leave yourself room to move in case of need, as Peter mentioned above.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
In a 2 year period my rear of my car as hit 3 times - the last time was 8 years ago.
1. I stopped when a car backed out of a driveway in front of me. Car behind me didn't stop. £400 damamge.
2. I had been stopped at traffic lights for at least 5 seconds when a car ran into the back of me. The female driver said that as she started to brake all the papers on the front passenger seat had slid onto the floor so she had bent over to pick them up! Never understood why she couldn't have waited until she came to a stop - the papers could hardly have escaped from the car. £600 damage.
3. I was fourth in a line of cars behind a car waiting to turn right across an A-road. Been stopped for at least 10 seconds when a car hit the back of me. Many witnesses and police called. No injuries but my car and the 'hitter' written-off.
Don't see how I coud have avoided any of the above. Any suggestions?
>> Edited by Philbes on Sunday 21st May 11:27
>> Edited by Philbes on Sunday 21st May 11:28
1. I stopped when a car backed out of a driveway in front of me. Car behind me didn't stop. £400 damamge.
2. I had been stopped at traffic lights for at least 5 seconds when a car ran into the back of me. The female driver said that as she started to brake all the papers on the front passenger seat had slid onto the floor so she had bent over to pick them up! Never understood why she couldn't have waited until she came to a stop - the papers could hardly have escaped from the car. £600 damage.
3. I was fourth in a line of cars behind a car waiting to turn right across an A-road. Been stopped for at least 10 seconds when a car hit the back of me. Many witnesses and police called. No injuries but my car and the 'hitter' written-off.
Don't see how I coud have avoided any of the above. Any suggestions?
>> Edited by Philbes on Sunday 21st May 11:27
>> Edited by Philbes on Sunday 21st May 11:28
These things do seem to come in waves, don't they? I had a similar experience about 10 years ago - three times rear-ended in short order. The last one was a doozy: I was at the front of a queue of four cars stopped behind a bus. It was a clear summer's evening and the road was straight for about a quarter of a mile, going down into a dip (we were on the uphill side, so visibility was excellent all the way back), 40 mph limit. The next thing I hear is four rapid "bang"s - the last accompanied by me lurching forward in my seat. Some complete nutter in a Beemer had actualy managed to squash four stationary cars with a sodding great bus in front of them into each other in perfect conditions.
Major Bloodnok said:
These things do seem to come in waves, don't they? I had a similar experience about 10 years ago - three times rear-ended in short order. The last one was a doozy: I was at the front of a queue of four cars stopped behind a bus. It was a clear summer's evening and the road was straight for about a quarter of a mile, going down into a dip (we were on the uphill side, so visibility was excellent all the way back), 40 mph limit. The next thing I hear is four rapid "bang"s - the last accompanied by me lurching forward in my seat. Some complete nutter in a Beemer had actualy managed to squash four stationary cars with a sodding great bus in front of them into each other in perfect conditions.
I would say that one amounts to being in the wrong place at the wrong time, unfortunately, and there's little you can do about it. Just part of life's rich tapestry as they say. In another forum my friend Streetcop (as he was known here) mildly criticised me for my attitude - "Dave plays the fate card" he said. That's right, I do, with regard to the type of incident described by Denis.
We do our best to cater for all reasonable eventualities, and as and when we learn new tricks to give ourselves further protection, we incorporate those into our repertoire. Even so, I'm not one of those individuals who seem to expect that nothing should ever go wrong at any time, in any circumstances, for any reason whatsoever. I just think that's an unrealistic expectation.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
Edited by TripleS on Tuesday 6th June 10:48
TripleS said:
We do our best to cater for all reasonable eventualities, and as and when we learn new tricks to give ourseleves further protection, we incorporate those into our repertoire. Even so, I'm not one of those individuals who seem to expect that nothing should ever go wrong at any time, in any circumstances, for any reason whatsoever. I just think that's an unrealistic expectation.
Spot on.
TripleS said:
We do our best to cater for all reasonable eventualities, and as and when we learn new tricks to give ourseleves further protection, we incorporate those into our repertoire. Even so, I'm not one of those individuals who seem to expect that nothing should ever go wrong at any time, in any circumstances, for any reason whatsoever. I just think that's an unrealistic expectation.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
With you all the way there. And that unrealistic expectation spreads everywhere, not just in driving. It's all part-and-parcel with the "look at me, I'm a victim" culture.
As above - sometimes it's just bad luck. You can't force people to see you and slow down. I've experienced this and also seen it happen to others. In fact, seeing it from behind makes it seem even more inexplicable.
I do this too, working on the principle that "change" is more noticable. After all, I've had some post-its on my monitor bezel for so long that I no longer notice them; they used to stand out like a sore thumb (which was the point).
bor said:
In addition to the above advice, I flash my brake lights on and off until the following car starts to slow down.
I do this too, working on the principle that "change" is more noticable. After all, I've had some post-its on my monitor bezel for so long that I no longer notice them; they used to stand out like a sore thumb (which was the point).
whatever said:
As above - sometimes it's just bad luck. You can't force people to see you and slow down. I've experienced this and also seen it happen to others. In fact, seeing it from behind makes it seem even more inexplicable.
bor said:
In addition to the above advice, I flash my brake lights on and off until the following car starts to slow down.
I do this too, working on the principle that "change" is more noticable. After all, I've had some post-its on my monitor bezel for so long that I no longer notice them; they used to stand out like a sore thumb (which was the point).
Thanks for all the advice and experiences people have given.
Regarding flashing brake lights, I dont that as such, but when using the brakes to maintain speed down a hill if I want/need to stop I release the brakes, then apply them again so the car doesnt slow down faster without some change of lighting at the back.
outofthebox said:
Bit late I know, but I'm new here. I was taught to keep an eye on the driver as s/he approaches. Often when a rear-ender occurs they are distracted by something and aren't looking where they're going. A toot with the horn can alert them to the approaching danger.
Hello there and welcome 'outofthe box'.
I hadn't thought of that, but I think it's a fair idea. The only downside that immediately springs to mind is the risk of startling somebody else in the vicinity, and distracting them from what they should concentrating on.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
outofthebox said:
Bit late I know, but I'm new here. I was taught to keep an eye on the driver as s/he approaches. Often when a rear-ender occurs they are distracted by something and aren't looking where they're going. A toot with the horn can alert them to the approaching danger.
Sounds like it could be worthwhile and save someone from crashing, even the Highway Code allows it
The Highway Code said:
92: The horn.
Use only while your vehicle is moving and you need to warn other road users of your presence. Never sound your horn aggressively. You MUST NOT use your horn
while stationary on the road
when driving in a built up area between the hours of 11.30 pm and 7.00 am
except when another vehicle poses a danger.
Use only while your vehicle is moving and you need to warn other road users of your presence. Never sound your horn aggressively. You MUST NOT use your horn
while stationary on the road
when driving in a built up area between the hours of 11.30 pm and 7.00 am
except when another vehicle poses a danger.
(my emphasis here)
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