Query for you guys on Gaz or Protech dampers
Discussion
I've been running protechs since may 05, and used the car more during the winter than I would have liked due to various problems with "the fleet". It did get driven in salty conditions but I always made a point of thoroughly rinsing the chassis and running gear each time with clean water. Anyway I changed the springs and bump rubbers about 6 weeks ago gave the shocks a good clean in parafin then soap and water. I was pleased with the way they had coped with the build up of grime and salt exposure. When I got them I did ask Joolz if lovely machined aluminium bodies would cope with weathering and he said the finish should be quite quite durable. So far this is proving correct. The bottom end of the damper, the adjuster end, is obviously most vulnerable and the ally is a bit dull now, but there is absolutely no reactive corrosion with crusting or powdery deposits as i had feared. To be honest if I'd had a little more time I would have given them a quick polish whilst they were off but even without this they still look very smart. The adjuster mechanism looked particularly pristine after cleaning, and feels as smooth and well engineered as when new. I try to give them a light spray with WD40 whenever possible which probably helps preserve them a bit.
Spent a bit of time cleaning and carefully re-greasing the spherical joints, which again seem to have stood up well to the rigors of road use.
As far as function is concerned, I think they are very good although I find that I end up running them at maximum stiffness even with the stiffer springs, but reading the threads on shocks I think this is more down to my driving style and expectations / preferences.
>> Edited by tahiti450 on Saturday 20th May 00:06
Spent a bit of time cleaning and carefully re-greasing the spherical joints, which again seem to have stood up well to the rigors of road use.
As far as function is concerned, I think they are very good although I find that I end up running them at maximum stiffness even with the stiffer springs, but reading the threads on shocks I think this is more down to my driving style and expectations / preferences.
>> Edited by tahiti450 on Saturday 20th May 00:06
As Tahiti says,they(protechs) stand up very well,better than many.There a very good quality shock and youll have no problems with them for sure.As for the performance,if you ask Trackcar how many Nitron kits he sells now to the range of TVR owners you'll get a bit of a surprise,most people are buying the Protechs as the performance is so good.I can confirm this now,as i'm currently running the Nitrons to try,having first experienced the Protechs.The Protechs are a genuine bargain in suspension terms,for the money,you wont get close imho.
trinitycall said:
My protechs lasted about 2 months. load of sh*t. Dreadful quality. Certainly not good enough for a tvr. Better suited for a 2CV or Fiat Panda. You get what you pay for.
Thanks for the heads up Nick I was thinking of fitting Protechs to the Tuscan.....
Funny a guy on here had them fitted to his Tuscan by the same outfit that suggested Nitrons to you.IIRC
Weird that
billynomates said:
My protechs lasted about 2 months. load of sh*t. Dreadful quality. Certainly not good enough for a tvr. Better suited for a 2CV or Fiat Panda. You get what you pay for.
Thanks for the heads up Nick I was thinking of fitting Protechs to the Tuscan.....
Funny a guy on here had them fitted to his Tuscan by the same outfit that suggested Nitrons to you.IIRC
Weird that
Just noticed you two guys are in Surrey .. who in Surrey is fitting and setting up your cars? I supplied a whole load of kits to one garage there, but one cerbera coincidently came in to the workshop the other day and the set-up was so appaulling I refuse to supply that garage any more kits.
no two wheels were pointing in the right direction.trackcar said:
My protechs lasted about 2 months. load of sh*t. Dreadful quality. Certainly not good enough for a tvr. Better suited for a 2CV or Fiat Panda. You get what you pay for.
Thanks for the heads up Nick I was thinking of fitting Protechs to the Tuscan.....
Funny a guy on here had them fitted to his Tuscan by the same outfit that suggested Nitrons to you.IIRC
Weird that
Just noticed you two guys are in Surrey .. who in Surrey is fitting and setting up your cars? I supplied a whole load of kits to one garage there, but one cerbera coincidently came in to the workshop the other day and the set-up was so appaulling I refuse to supply that garage any more kits.
That certainly doesn't sound like the Protechs I got from Joolz (as per my post) My Protechs are very well engineered and nicely finished.
>> Edited by tahiti450 on Saturday 20th May 22:26
>> Edited by tahiti450 on Saturday 20th May 22:27
trackcar said:
My protechs lasted about 2 months. load of sh*t. Dreadful quality. Certainly not good enough for a tvr. Better suited for a 2CV or Fiat Panda. You get what you pay for.
One damper had bottomed out and the other was leaking according to an assessment by Austec.
i know they are cheap and accordingly seem attractive... but to be honest cutting corners on suspension is daft. Personally, i'd recommend anyone with a TVR pays a little more for quality.
>> Edited by due to Sunday morning typo
>> Edited by trinitycall on Sunday 21st May 08:54
[quote=tahiti450 That certainly doesn't sound like the Protechs I got from Joolz (as per my post)
My Protechs are very well engineered and nicely finished.
[/quote]
Protechs are a budget damper. totally unsuitable for a sports car in my opinion.
If anyone is interested i've got some nearly new ones that may be suitale as chair legs.
It's just nuts innit
That certainly doesn't sound like the Protechs I got from Joolz (as per my post) My Protechs are very well engineered and nicely finished.
[/quote]
Protechs are a budget damper. totally unsuitable for a sports car in my opinion.
If anyone is interested i've got some nearly new ones that may be suitale as chair legs.
It's just nuts innit
trinitycall said:
One damper had bottomed out and the other was leaking according to an assessment by Austec.
Ah.
They can't "bottom out" .. they can run onto teh bump stop, but there's NOTHING in the bottom of a Protech to get damaged .. even if the bump stop wasn't there you could happily smack metal on metal and not do any damage to the internals as there's no interference.
I've never had a leaking Protech either, in fact it's the only damper I send out mail order as it's the only damper I'm happy doing that with!
As it's Austec who fitted them then I probably supplied their dampers (unless they got them direct from Protech in which case they specced them themselves so you're on your own there) so send them back to me and I'll have them inspected to see just what's gone on.
Like I say : you *cannot* bottom them out and cause damage it's just not possible as they're designed that way!!.. and because they're not pressured and have double seals and scraper they can't leak unless the piston rod has been damaged by poor handling! I've seen mole grips used on damper rods before now FFS! What colour is the leaking oil?
Hmm ... what with this and the other car with such a bad chassis alignment on it I'm going to stop sending dampers out to other fitting centres. It's normally the fitting centre that's at fault.
One damper had bottomed out and the other was leaking according to an assessment by Austec.
Ah.
They can't "bottom out" .. they can run onto teh bump stop, but there's NOTHING in the bottom of a Protech to get damaged .. even if the bump stop wasn't there you could happily smack metal on metal and not do any damage to the internals as there's no interference.
I've never had a leaking Protech either, in fact it's the only damper I send out mail order as it's the only damper I'm happy doing that with!
As it's Austec who fitted them then I probably supplied their dampers (unless they got them direct from Protech in which case they specced them themselves so you're on your own there) so send them back to me and I'll have them inspected to see just what's gone on.
Like I say : you *cannot* bottom them out and cause damage it's just not possible as they're designed that way!!.. and because they're not pressured and have double seals and scraper they can't leak unless the piston rod has been damaged by poor handling! I've seen mole grips used on damper rods before now FFS! What colour is the leaking oil?
Hmm ... what with this and the other car with such a bad chassis alignment on it I'm going to stop sending dampers out to other fitting centres. It's normally the fitting centre that's at fault.
trackcar said:
Ah.
They can't "bottom out" .. they can run onto teh bump stop, ...etc...
Austec didn't fit them. Rather Austec diagnosed the problem and fitted Nitron Racing shocks which to be honest are in a different league to AVOs and Protechs.
As i've said, you get what you pay for... Protechs are a budget damper... great for a shopping trolley but no good for a TVR.
I've tried AVOs, Protechs and Nitrons. After trying Nitrons I would never fit Protech to a TVR unless I couldn't afford anything else, and even then i'd probably try a breakers yard for dampers off an old Lada before using Protech.
No offence, but you've obviously got a vested interest in supplying these dampers...from my experience they are not of a quality level that is acceptable to me.
It's just nuts innit
trinitycall said:
No offence, but you've obviously got a vested interest in supplying these dampers...from my experience they are not of a quality level that is acceptable to me.
I'm another very happy Nitron customer, and I'll happily recommend Nitron to anyone who can afford it, but still I know that in the past Nitron have had reliability problems of their own. If your budget won't stretch to that then Protech would be the next obvious choice. I've never tried Protech myself, but they've had glowing reports from people who know what they're talking about and if Nitrons weren't available I'd be happy to run Protech. Your story is the first report I've heared of anyone having reliability problems with them and on that basis I'm inclined to think that either your dampers have been mistreated or you're just very unlucky. Certainly I wouldn't condemn the brand just based on your unfortunate experience. It's a shame that you've had problems with yours, but please don't assume from this that they're all crap or not fit to grace your TVR etc. That's simply not true, there's no reason to expect this sort of problem and I suspect the manufacturer would appreciate a chance to inspect your duff ones to see what went wrong with them. Anyway, glad you're happy with the Nitrons.
trinitycall said:
No offence, but you've obviously got a vested interest in supplying these dampers...from my experience they are not of a quality level that is acceptable to me.
I do have a vested interest you're correct .. but only because I've fitted just about every spring and damper combination to TVRs over the years, and fit and sell so many suspension kits to TVRs that I'm only interested in kits that 1) perform correctly and 2) are reliable 3) offer exceptional value for money .. hence my involvement with Protech and Nitron as my sole damper suppliers.
Protech are the damper suppliers for our forthcoming T350 race car .. I wouldn't compromise our race car with something that I wasn't 110% happy with, given that it's bound to be a highly publicised vehicle as it's the only T350 or Sp6 engined car in the series (so far).
As they say "failure is not an option!!".
Seems to me you've maybe had a kit fitted and set up badly and are now paying the price, as I have said you cannot experience the problems you have encountered unless something is seriously wrong.
Where are the dampers now? I'd still love to see them, as I'm sure Protech will be aswell ..
pupp said:
Hmmm... any Gaz users out there with some miles on?
I have a GAZ setup from Derek www.pistonheads.com/gassing/profile.asp?h=0&memberId=55963&f=8&t=269313
I've not had chance to use the car yet but have heard many many glowing reports. But I've heard equally good things about Protech and would be happy to have them on my car also.
I'm sure Trinity has had a bad experience with Protech and is right to feel dismayed at spending a large chunk of money and for the product to fail in an unacceptable fashion. But I think he is an isolated case and should return the dampers to Protech and demand a refund.
I'm sure Trackcar would not supply a damper that was not up to performing exceptionally, and most customers now choose the Protech setup over the Nitrons from him.
Do a bit of research on here pupp, speak to a few people running different setups and speak to the suppliers describing what you want from a damper, and then spend your money. It is an important decision but there are many good setups out there now.
trinitycall said:
[quote=trackcarWhere are the dampers now? I'd still love to see them, as I'm sure Protech will be aswell ..
Really? in the garage taking up space. More than happy for Protech to arrange collection and refund
Happy days[/quote] Did you buy them direct from Protech? if so you need to speak to them direct obviously. I don't know if they'll refund .. I investigated this many years ago when a PHer was threatening legal action over some gaz dampers I'd sold .. The legal dept of the FSB said you should give the seller 3 attempts to rectify the problem before you have the right to a refund. Rectification / repair / subsitution are the first steps the retailer should follow, then if no joy only then us a refund applicable .. though what you can do is get them repaired and sell them on ebay?
If they're just in your garage mail me your address and I can get them picked up, as I said I'm very keen to see just what spec they're built to and the damper can tell you about how the car was set eg ride height which is almost always set too low. If you run lower ride heights than std you *must* run a short damper body / much stiffer springs, there's no other way of doing it without compromising the suspension system.
Sorry to jump on this thread, but a while back Avo's were the mid range adjustable choice, is it just that other stuff is on the market now or are these newer products actually superior.
Sorry to throw a third variable into the equation Pupp but i'm about to purchase some shocks myself. As I'm no expert I could do with some info on all these products inluding how they perform after 2 or 3 years.
Incidently Pupp i just came in from the garage having replaced the top wishbones and was puzzling over which position to tighten them at when i happened on your threads and ...ta da... there was the answer. Good timing
Sorry to throw a third variable into the equation Pupp but i'm about to purchase some shocks myself. As I'm no expert I could do with some info on all these products inluding how they perform after 2 or 3 years.
Incidently Pupp i just came in from the garage having replaced the top wishbones and was puzzling over which position to tighten them at when i happened on your threads and ...ta da... there was the answer. Good timing
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